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rasberrybeard

The War On Terrorism

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I can tell you that the last 14 weeks have opened my eyes to the world in a way I wish I had never been forced to see. I see the evil that makes up so many people, the sensless violence, hatred and rage. And as a soldier in the United States Army, I am responsible for much of what makes this world both a worse and better place. In George W. Bush's "War on Terrorism", over 3,000+ men and women have given their lives to the fight. A fight that so far has yielded no positive results. The removal of Saddam Hussein crippled the Iraqi Economy to the point that the unemployment is nearing 45%. Which is a staggeringly horrible number of people. Crime has reached such a massive level that the police force is considered a high fatality occupation.

 

Recently with conflicts in Iranian/United States politics we cannot be assured that immediate occupation wont take place at any given time. Already there are over 1,000 Marines,Rangers,and Ops Soldiers stationed near the borders of Iran. While conflict seems likely, I can only hope and pray that politics will for once do their job. It is my personal opinion that if we begin military occupation of Iran, we will be strecthing our already stretched troops to the breaking point.

 

So my question to you is: In the whole matter of the direction the United States has been heading with it's military operations, what are your feelings?

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just a little warning, discussing politics and such isnt too good an idea..this is a only a game and bringing in something kinda major from RL on which everyone has a different view will bring up some controversy..no?

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just a little warning, discussing politics and such isnt too good an idea..this is a only a game and bringing in something kinda major from RL on which everyone has a different view will bring up some controversy..no?

 

I agree...let's just ignore it, maybe it will go away

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Oh believe me I know that it can be touchy, but I was hoping to have an intellectual conversation. (I'm no stranger to these boards either <check my post count>) Aww well, guess it isnt fitting to talk about at this current time.

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Thanks for pointing this out.

It's good to get an idea of what is going on in the world today especially since most of it isn't talked about during school and such.

 

As for my feelings...I honestly think that the US should get out of there...while all our soldiers are over there...is there not a small chance that we have become weaker and now even a greater chance of an attack happening?

But i guess that if the chance was greater, how come it didn't happen already? Could they be waiting for more people to be sent over?

 

That's just one thing that has been on my mind ever since they started sending men over there.

 

I'm probably wrong, considering that i don't know much about the military.

 

btw, shouldn't this be in current events?

Edited by kat

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skodarap and jowwow this forum is called offtopic for a reason. that reason is because these forums are set up for the game and thus an offtopic forum bundled within these forums means that the topics inside are going to be off of the topic of the forum theme aka "the game".

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One of the best reasons for the US to be in the middle east is because almost no-one in the world, especially not the middle east, believed that they would or could be there this long.

 

The percieved US track record for conflict is to arrive late and leave early. Especially in the last half hundred years, there has been very few cases of the US being able to sustain any type of action.

 

It is pretty safe to say that there were no military advisors in the middle east who actually believed that the US would be able to sustain a long military campaign in either Afghanistan or Iraq. In fact, these same people were proven right in their opinions in SE Asia, Central and South America, and in the first Gulf war. They knew, without a doubt, that if they could just hold on long enough, the US would pack up and go home. A lot of them still believe this.

 

A clear message needs to be sent that this is not a short term effort. Unfortunately, the opposite message is going out. If the US leaves Iraq it will be a loss, plain and simple. That loss will forever destroy any credibility the US has. It will be open season on Americans and on American soil. This is not something any of us want.

 

Yeah the situation sucks. It is time to look at alternatives, but to fully understand what these alternatives are and will bring. Leaving Iraq before things are finished there will not end the conflict any sooner; it will actually prolong it.

 

There are several factors, domestic and foriegn involved in all of this. One is military power. Granted, the US has it in spades. Big whoop. The next is political will. Again, there is huge potential in the US, but it lacks any depth as elections, lobbiests, media fairs, and public opinion sway things one way or another. The foreign ones are much tougher because of differig cultures, differing paradigms and different politics.

 

Muslim extremists will not leave anyone alone if they are left in peace. That is not how they work. Leaving them alone lets them build their strength for their next attack. There will be more attacks.

 

Pulling out now would be a very bad thing.

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skodarap and jowwow this forum is called offtopic for a reason. that reason is because these forums are set up for the game and thus an offtopic forum bundled within these forums means that the topics inside are going to be off of the topic of the forum theme aka "the game".

 

Ok, i guess you didn't get my point, but anyway...

 

i'm not involved in this thing as i'm not american nor arab so i don't really care if they slaugther each other...as long as they keep me out of it...

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i don't really care if they slaugther each other...

:blink:

Errr.....if you haven't noticed that kind of attitude can bring controversy....and get you in trouble.

You don't care if they slaughter each other?If you don't understand,once America is finished with the Middle East,it could move to other parts of the world...Well,it IS the most powerful nation in the world.Heck,who knows what would happen?WW III is may be closer than we imagine :)

On the other hand,Dent is right.Leaving Iraq now could mean a catastrophe,the nation is crippled,people have no jobs,crime is everywhere.....thats why people need to start caring for other things.If we don't....

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i don't really care if they slaugther each other...

:blink:

Errr.....if you haven't noticed that kind of attitude can bring controversy....and get you in trouble.

You don't care if they slaughter each other?If you don't understand,once America is finished with the Middle East,it could move to other parts of the world...Well,it IS the most powerful nation in the world.Heck,who knows what would happen?WW III is may be closer than we imagine :)

On the other hand,Dent is right.Leaving Iraq now could mean a catastrophe,the nation is crippled,people have no jobs,crime is everywhere.....thats why people need to start caring for other things.If we don't....

 

I choose my words very carefully...

 

And if you've seen what I have seen back in '92 I don't think you would care too (maybe i'm wrong) - 'cause none of them cared than, and not even back in '98 when Serbs done the same things americans do now with one very important difference - it was on their on teritory...

 

Well, history of fall of Yugoslavia was bloody but i carry no hate around with me, but don't ask me to care (you'll have better chance to persuade the wall anyway)...

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Thank you Dent for adding something relevant. I agree that a withdrawal would spell disaster, however I also think continued expansion of our campaign is idiocy (if thats even a word). And this laser keyboard is annoying the SH** out of me ill add more later. (sort of on lockdown at the moment anyways.)

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I think the whole war is unessesary, But thats only my take on it.

,Knight

i doubt u would say that if an act of terrorism affected u personally. like maybe if some1 in u'r family was in the twin towers as they fell, or any other act of terrorism of the like. i think u'd like to keep it so that doesn't happen to u. THAT is what makes it all necessary.

 

i'm glad it's being done personally, i'd MUCH rather it kept over there then brought to MY doorstep!!! i think every1 should think about that a min. if these ppl AREN'T put in check they will only get worse. Clinton let them pull their crap w/ only slaps on the wrist (metaphorically speaking) and look what happened as a result.

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God damn Bless that fucking criminal President Bush for bringing hell freedom and misery democracy to Iraq!

I guess those estimated 300K innocent victims terrorists are very happy, and their families are equally pleased.

 

Edited by the Ministry of Peace on 24th of May 1984

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God damn Bless that fucking criminal President Bush for bringing hell freedom and misery democracy to Iraq!

I guess those estimated 300K innocent victims terrorists are very happy, and their families are equally pleased.

 

Edited by the Ministry of Peace on 24th of May 1984

Doubleplus good :P

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True enough Ent. It just isn't about them. It is about having a family, a job, a life over here.

 

You can feel sorry all you want, but the plain fact, the truth here, is that nothing would have stopped further attacks in Europe and North America except force, and lots of it.

 

Industry in North Am still hasn't recovered from 5 years ago. Where would you prefer to see the 50% unemployment? There or chez vous? That is your choice. They would not have left us alone.

 

So feel sad for the liberated while you eat your Lucky Charms. Read about them in a paper that you take for granted will report news. Go to work and talk about it with your friends. Come home to a family. Build and play games.

 

I will too. I am just going to be thankful that someone else, somewhere else got liberated so that I could enjoy this stuff. The alternative is much, much worse.

 

I know you dont like GWB. I can't stand him either, and would have loved to see him impeached years ago and sent to prison. It is not likely going to happen. I just don't equate every bad thing that happens in the world with his simian blundering.

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True enough Ent. It just isn't about them. It is about having a family, a job, a life over here.

 

You can feel sorry all you want, but the plain fact, the truth here, is that nothing would have stopped further attacks in Europe and North America except force, and lots of it.

 

Industry in North Am still hasn't recovered from 5 years ago. Where would you prefer to see the 50% unemployment? There or chez vous? That is your choice. They would not have left us alone.

 

 

Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, nor did it threat to attack US, nor did they kill ANY American citizen ever (except in the two wars). Get your fucking facts right before spreading bullshit around, k? God, if there is a hell, I am sure all of you will spend quite a while in ther,e because you are as responsible as Bush of the massacre that took place in Iraq.

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Countries are not going to war with Europe and North America. Besides every country has it's own "Terrorist" groups. You could call the CIA a terrorist group, it cause's terror, supports terrorists and had its own agenda.

 

Terrorism refers to a strategy of using political violence, social threats or coordinated attacks closely related with unconventional warfare in manner of conduct and operation.

 

CIA was said to aid Black September with information and not to hinder them, as long as they did not target Americans.

 

CIA trained Saddam Hussien.

 

On January 13, 2006, the CIA launched an airstrike on Damadola, a Pakistani village near the Afghan border, where they believed Ayman al-Zawahiri was located. The airstrike killed eight men, five women and five children but al-Zawahiri was not among them.

 

The cryptonym KUBARK appears in the title of a 1963 CIA document KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation which describes interrogation techniques, including, among other things, "coercive counterintelligence interrogation of resistant sources", that is, torture techniques.

 

In my own opinion, you can't label other groups as terrorists if you yourself have the same operations. They are fighting as dirty as each other, as cruel as each other, as oppressing as eachother.

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That's about another 11 september

 

11 september

 

Thats my view of History, winners write it, losers are forgotten.

 

about the war in Iraqi and the so called war on terrorism, was it necessary?

 

i would say no, for some reasons:

 

1) the reason for the iraqi war was the supposed presence of mass-destruction weapons on Hussein's Arsenal.

 

When the war was about to start president bush said to have 'consistent proofs' of the presenco of that kind of weapons on the iraqi territory. These 'proofs' were largely based on a dossier brought to the italian intelligence from an ex-member of the same intelligence that wanted to make some money.

 

The dossier was saw from the frenchs, who denied it's usefulness, it was at first time rejected by the US too, then used some time later, even if they did knew that it was, at least, more likely than false.

 

2) After the 11 september 2001 the USA were at the peak of their popularity for the sad events that happened, while this war made more europeans to feel the USA as the aggressors of innocent people whose only fault was to have a madman like Hussein (which was trained and equipped by the USA to fight against Iran, a full circle, if i could say it) as their dictator.

 

another question arose then, why didn't the USA took out Hussein in the first gulf war if they wanted to convict it for crimes against the kurds?

 

3)to start this war the USA basically ignored the NATO (or was The ONU? damn me, i don't remember) Basically making the world feel that the NATO (or ONU, sorry) is useless and that the strongest nation can do as they want.

 

4) Who said that the 'bring the war on their own ground' tactic would work with an organization like Al-Quaeda which, actually, can't be considered to have a territory? (would be like bombing Spain to get the ETA guys)

 

 

basically:

 

If you say me that the war was to take out saddam hussein for crimes against the kurds and to have a more friendly government (if we can consider the iraqi government as reliable at the moment) in a strategic area for oil, then i can answer that if you wanted that war, oh well, i'll let you call it international diplomacy.

 

but if you say me that you're doing this to bring the peace to the world, and to save all of us from the terrorism then... well i guess it was the worst idea i ever saw :P

 

 

Cheers, Filippo.

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This is what i meant by contraversy...

 

nah, don't worry, i didn't meant to be rude, i was just stating my opinions, and i recognize that other people can think differently than me.

 

it's all ok until we keep it polite :P

 

 

After all, what kind of discussions can we have if there aren't (friendly) contraversies beetween us? :mace:

 

 

Cheers,

Filippo

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I think they didn't take out Hussien because they thought that he still might have been as useful as he was in the beginning.

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I think they didn't take out Hussien because they thought that he still might have been as useful as he was in the beginning.

 

that's the point.

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Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, nor did it threat to attack US, nor did they kill ANY American citizen ever (except in the two wars). Get your fucking facts right before spreading bullshit around, k? God, if there is a hell, I am sure all of you will spend quite a while in ther,e because you are as responsible as Bush of the massacre that took place in Iraq.

 

Wow. That is a bit strong there Ent. Although you are just right enough, there are some reality checks involved as well.

 

Iraq was invaded on false pretences. Bush and his pals lied to just about everyone trying to get enough support for it. There was and is no proven link to WMD or terrorism at that time. These are all more very good reasons why the American voters should be doing a huge gut check and doing something about the criminals that have been elected.

 

That said:

 

Now that the US is engaged in both Iraq and Afghanistan, the whole world is watching and waiting. I think it is safe to say that EVERY SINGLE government and organisation in the world who had anything negative to say about invading either Iraq or Afghanistan will smugly cheer if the US fails in either location. That may not seem like a bad thing to you now, but it proves beyond any doubt what has been said about US foriegn and military policy since WW2 (if not before); that the US can not sustain any type of commitment beyond the very short term. Open season will be declared on the US, its institutions, its allies, its businesses, its citizens, and its cultural icons. Need to make a statement? Go after the US. If you can hide for a couple of years, then you will be home free. It may not have had anything to do with 9-11 and terrorism to start, but they are inseperable now.

 

You said, and I agree that Iraq was not about 9-11. However, and this is a pretty big one, it has become a rally point for every extremist that has it in for the US. No matter what the reasons were for invading, it is inextricably tied to terrorism now by the very same lies and spin that tried to convice us in the first place. We may not believe a single reason that GWB&Co. gave out, but perception on the ground there is different. The US giving up now would be considered a solid victory for Muslim extremists and vindication for any future acts.

 

Do I think that invading Iraq was a smart move? No. From the first day, the conflict has been waged from a media and spin point of view. Facts were and are less important than public opinion. Again, this is what America voted for. It may not have been smart to have invaded, but what would be an even dumber move would be to leave before a credible job of rebuilding is done. The US is stuck with an unpopular conflict, the results of which could be catastrophic.

 

It no longer matters if the US leaves Iraq or stays. This conflict is going to go on for a while to come. The choice has become fight it over there and reduce the chance of it coming home, or let the 'bad guys' take the offensive and hit us where we are most vulnerable, whenever they want. It has become a question of finishing what was started and maybe making something better out of the region, or abandoning them before they can really get on their feet.

 

Yes, I can understand that you are upset and angry with the government and with people who are blind supporters. I do understand what your reasons and feelings are. Unfortunately the facts are that Iraq is a very important turning point for the US and will affect its world relations for centuries to come. That the invasion happened at all (especially for the reasons stated) was a crime. Leaving now is the worst possible solution.

 

:P

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