A/D requrements for battle gear

[Aislinn]

What about the higher level players?

Your levels should be spread out a bit more imo.

[ville-v]

Maybe BoDs and Axe of Freezing would require something over 90... Col would be 50 defense.

I think it was infair to make CoM, Staff of Protection and Mage's Staff to require high attack, so maybe them would need magic level instead? CoM would be 30, Staff of Protection 40 and Mage's staff 50...

[vwpro]

keep in mind u start with 3 a/d

 

i might try to make a list for what i think is fair ..or shouldnt i ?

 

and weapons that give you attack and def aswel should have both a/d requirments like the staffs .they give defence right

Edited May 26, 2006 by vwpro

[Atlantis]

thordin your values are way low imo, iron plate should be 50 def minimum, serp like 60 or 70 attack, new swords 80, and tit plate 80-90 as well. 40 a/d is earned in like 2-3 weeks, should take at least month or 2 to get to wear iron and such

[Aislinn]

keep in mind u start with 3 a/d

 

i might try to make a list for what i think is fair ..or shouldnt i ?

 

and weapons that give you attack and def aswel should have both a/d requirments like the staffs .they give defence right

Yes, I'd like to see what you come up with for levels. I would very much like to see a high level experienced player's opinion of this.

[Thordin]

Suggested levels are low, because I feared to be flamed to death if they were too exaggerated

 

Sure thing Scarr, make your suggestion, they are most welcome...

 

But I see fit defense for iron full plate on level 40 of defense, since it won't be ultimate armor in the game, if the level was too high, then the following armors must be of course higher, meant only for top 20 players, which wouldn't keep the market of them.

 

Do not get overzealous on this, this is meant to be fun, not torture to get iron chainmail at level 30 of defense!

 

Keep the head cool and think rationaly, too high levels will cripple the whole system.

 

I understand you are high level and experienced players, but you are not the majority, think on the middle class of players. As I told above, iron plate mail and titanium serpent will no longer be ultimate armor, so those levels seem quite fine to me. And as for magical weapons, there should definitely be high levels, which I posted also on page 2. Fire +5, ice +6, magic +7 and thermal +10 levels.

 

CoL is fine at level 50 IMHO, but do not forget that CoM is used also by summoners and they don!t have to have high level of magic, which would make the most difficult skill even impossible to perform effectively. About the staves, they're okay with magic level.

 

For nebs with A/D 3/3 is ready leather gear with wooden shield and iron sword at no requirements, hence it is reward for tutorial quest.

 

As for those new sword, it's quite hard to set them right.

 

I just want to make some motivation and sense to A/D leveling, not getting too hard to get equipment, as I said before, don't get overzealous and keep your head cool.

 

-Thordix

[Aislinn]

But I see fit defense for iron full plate on level 40 of defense, since it won't be ultimate armor in the game, if the level was too high, then the following armors must be of course higher, meant only for top 20 players, which wouldn't keep the market of them.

There has to be something though for the top 20 players. Eventually there will be more up there, and those that are top 20 now will need something even beyond their current levels for them to shoot for. Remember, we want to keep these people in the game too.

[Thordin]

But I see fit defense for iron full plate on level 40 of defense, since it won't be ultimate armor in the game, if the level was too high, then the following armors must be of course higher, meant only for top 20 players, which wouldn't keep the market of them.

There has to be something though for the top 20 players. Eventually there will be more up there, and those that are top 20 now will need something even beyond their current levels for them to shoot for. Remember, we want to keep these people in the game too.

 

Magic armors for them, they are really missed. Some armor with fire/ice/magic extra protection would come handy here. Or with some other, yet unseen, abilities could be great, but I believe they are under developement while we talk here.

It's difficult to keep balance between what is good for motivation and what is good for economy IMHO...

 

P.S.: omg, 82nd reply, this is getting huge

Edited May 26, 2006 by ThordinElement

[vwpro]

the list u had up there earlyer..where that all the armors,weapons?

[Thordin]

Ok, you asked for it. "Make it starts lower and end higher" thing is here:

 

ARMOR(defense required)

Leather helm (0)

Leather torso (0)

Leather pants (0)

Leather boots (0)

Wooden shield (0)

Enhanced wooden shield (5)

Iron chainmail (10)

Iron shield (15)

Iron helm (20)

Steel chainmail (25)

Iron greaves (30)

Steel shield (35)

Titanium chainmail (40)

Iron cuisses (45)

Iron platemail (50)

Steel helm (55)

Steel greaves (60)

Steel cuisses (65)

Steel platemail (70)

TItanium helm (75)

Titanium greaves (80)

Titanium shield (85)

Titanium cuisses (90)

TItanium platemail (100)

 

WEAPONS (attack required)

Iron sword (0)

Wooden staff (5)

Iron broad sword (10)

Wooden hammer (15)

Steel long sword (20)

Quarterstaff (25)

Steel two-edged sword (30)

Iron battlehammer (35)

Iron axe (40)

Titanium short sword (45)

Steel axe (50)

Titanium long sword (55)

Titanium axe (60)

Titanium serpent sword (65)

New swords, yet to come (70-100 according to their attributes)

 

So you can see, that lists starts at 0 and ends at 100, in addition, I cannot decide about axe of freezing (A 90?), Branch oD (A 95?), Bone oD (A 100?), CoL (D 50?), CoM (M 40?), Staff oM (M 50?), Staff oP (M 60?). Can you help me here? I am only familiar with CoL and CoM, other items I have not yet used, so I dare not to suggest anything specific.

As for the magic abilities of weapons:

Fire is +10% to requisites, Ice is +15%, Magic is +25% and Thermal is +40% (which gives thermal serpent a requirement A 90+, sounds fair?)

 

I would also like to hear, if this debate is about something, or it's just pointless, as I am getting little nervous about this...

Edited May 27, 2006 by ThordinElement

[Torg]

sounds fair?

Actually, I think that now looks really well balanced. I like it.

The new weapons not mentioned (see threads about the coming update) would be for those 100+. The only problem I see with this is that many people don't reach such high levels, and some of those swords (Orc Slayer etc) would be great for mid-range levels of PK.

 

I totally agree with the armour however. I think that should certainly have required levels and I think those shown look great.

 

I would also like to hear, if this debate is about something, or it's just pointless, as I am getting little nervous about this...

That is a very good question. I think the majority of informed players would like to see something like this implemented as it does help to give balance and something to strive for. I find it interesting that Ent has chosen not to post in this thread, but hopefully he is considering it on his own time.

[Entropy]

There is no way in hell I am going to add level requirements for weapons and armor. There would be absolutely no benefit whatsoever, except for frustrating a lot of people, and making strong people even stronger.

[vwpro]

not realy..stronger players kill weaker easy already anyways

 

this will make more use of the newb weapons imo

and make people train more..to have a goal

[m_bee]

Lets remove the defense and accuracy penalties for the high level armors, and lets make the tutorial npc reward a full plate instead, so, the 1 week time to wear a plate that we have now, will become five minutes and they will be more suitable for the average rabbit killers. Even easier. [/sarcasm]

 

I think, indeed, that to work if you want to get an high level item is not something that will divide the people, see it the other way: people will have another reason to level up instead of sitting in front of a lupine bush to get zillions of weapons and armor pieces that they will store and never use but for screenies.

[Aislinn]

There is no way in hell I am going to add level requirements for weapons and armor. There would be absolutely no benefit whatsoever, except for frustrating a lot of people, and making strong people even stronger.

A lot of people are frustrated now.

 

Benefit 1: People will use the other items ingame that currently rot in storage.

Benefit 2: People will have goals to shoot for and pride in accomplishment and will actually stay.

[Thordin]

There is no way in hell I am going to add level requirements for weapons and armor. There would be absolutely no benefit whatsoever, except for frustrating a lot of people, and making strong people even stronger.

 

Ok, let me put it this way: do you think, it's fair to have ultimate armor (iron full plate) and decent weapon (serpent sword) in two weeks of gameplay? I agree with you, that this may frustrate some people as they will be unable to wear certain things, but IMO they will train harder to get those things worn. And as for strong people, I don't know which level of A/D you consider strong, but this may give focus to some to reach better gear. However, as always, you word is final and we will adjust to your decision..

 

 

EDIT: damn, Aislinn was few seconds faster than me

Edited May 28, 2006 by ThordinElement

[Guest Cereza]

I think it is wrong everyone can equip the better items in two days, absolutely wrong. When I started I saw people wearing full plates, serpent swords, and I though that was amazing, ant they was big warriors or heroes, a thing you can admire, but, when I learned how easy is to get and wear it....... pfff what a big disappointment. Do you ever see a decent role game without items requeriments? why cannot use the best objets first day is a frustation and cannot cast best spell or summon best monster first day are not? The easy that is get and equip the best items is a big mistake, has not sense in every point of views, game system, roleplaying...

 

But I know, if you don't like, don't play it, doesn't it? Things won't change posting sugerences about what is wrong.

 

Sorry my english please, it is a hard language for me.

[bkc56]

There would be absolutely no benefit whatsoever, except for frustrating a lot of people, and making strong people even stronger.

 

Actually the opposite is true. I just learned from one of my kids (who plays WoW) that the behavior of having weapons/armor above your normal skill level is called twinking. Such a player is called a twink. See a full definition in Wikipedia.

 

We've got required skill levels for magic. Suggested skill levels for most other skills (alchemy, crafting, potions, etc). Having skill levels for armor (defense) and weapons (attack) would make total sense within both the mechanics and role-play aspects of the game.

 

It would also prevent those twinks I see killing rabbits in plate.

[Entropy]

If a player is able to get the best weapons and armor in two weeks, it means that either he worked his ass off, or he had a rich friend, or he bought them from the store, financially supporting the game.

 

I see no reason to penalize them for that.

 

As for a motivation to level up, umm... how about... like.. being able to kill stronger monsters and players?

[vwpro]

some people dont care about that

[Thordin]

As for a motivation to level up, umm... how about... like.. being able to kill stronger monsters and players?

 

He won't actually be able to do this. A newb with A/D around 5/5 cannot kill goblin even with full plate and serpent sword. I understand that you do not wish to frustrate players by restricting anything, but catering newbs is maybe even worse, it frustrates older and experienced players that they have equal armor that the noobish "fighter" serping rabbits, which are almost killing him. And goal to kill better monsters? Hm, not much, if you ask me, but when someone sees you in the ultimate armor and powerful weapon in your hands, well, that means something. Something he earned, he worked hard for it to get it. Not just sit few hours at lilacs/blue lupine bush (two weeks were exaggerated, six hours is enough) and then get those plates bought then he drops DB at first agressive monster he encounter and get frustrated to lost it eventually.

 

I see no reason to penalize them for that.

 

Not to penalize them, but to motivate them.

 

QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA (bkc56 posted): "Many games have item restrictions that prevent new characters from using high-level items and upsetting game balance; for instance, Diablo II implements ability score and level requirements. "

Edited May 29, 2006 by ThordinElement

[Arnieman]

If a player is able to get the best weapons and armor in two weeks, it means that either he worked his ass off, or he had a rich friend, or he bought them from the store, financially supporting the game.

Or, they did little effort, a few hours worth of flowers -> sell -> repeat, and then buy a full plate set on market - those don't even cost 20k for full set on market, do they?

I see no reason to penalize them for that.

So, you'd rather penalize we who have already worked for our levels instead, by making sure the best we can have is what the newbies are getting within days of joining?

As for a motivation to level up, umm... how about... like.. being able to kill stronger monsters and players?

That sounds like if I were to say "we should tell the newbies all the secrets in the game on the Newbie Help channel, so they are motivated to actually explore"...

 

I personally do not support a total "level restriction" for equipment - that newbie that can get the best armor in a couple weeks of game play maybe shouldn't be totally restricted from wearing the best armor, but it shouldn't do that much good for them - putting heavy, skill-intensive armor on an unskilled combatant should have real negatives.

[Thordin]

I suggested this before. If you do not wish to restrict them totally, just take my numbers as recommended levels and below this levels, player would get penalized by lowering attributes of item (the greater level difference, the greater negative effect)

 

For armor let's say: more food consumption, no protection, slower movement

For weapon let's say: bad accuracy, lower damage, chance of getting hurt themselves by it

 

But having ultimate armor and powerful weapon after few hours of gameplay, that's something bad really, no motivation at all after that...

[ttlanhil]

If a player is able to get the best weapons and armor in two weeks, it means that either he worked his ass off, or he had a rich friend, or he bought them from the store, financially supporting the game.

if you ask channel 1 or know someone who's spent a week in EL, you'll know to do lilacs... harving them semi-afk for 6-10 hours is not working hard. rich freind is possible, but unless you expect them to stick around and not lose it, it's likely to not be the most common. and a real newbie spending a lot of cash in the store isn't that likely either

I see no reason to penalize them for that.

okay... how long do you want people to play EL for? in many other games there's a max level. once you hit that, you usually play a new char or a new game. but that takes a few months. in EL, on the other hand, while there's no max level, you can get the best (non-magic) weapons and armour in under a day (with a little advice, which channel 1 will give if you ask)

this causes many problems.

• they're likely to break the stuff. now, yes, that means they'd have to buy more to replace it... but at that level why would they? more likely to swear a heap and leave. you need to have more of a stake in order to deal with that frustration (as opposed to people who've (had to) earnt the ability to use it, who can afford to replace it and it's a less serious annoyance)
  
• lack of demand for lower level stuff. full plate and serp, as of last I saw, was around 17k. that doesn't take that long to get if you want it (and most newbies, once they see they can use it, will get the money to buy it). so what's the rest of the gear for? (excepting hot/cold protection in maps) not a lot. with the progressing level requirements, there's a need for a variety of items. sure, they may break less stuff, but they have more things to aim for. and better yet, without harving lilacs to buy plate, they have a bit more challenge in gaining the combat levels
  
• 'bad form' actions... the newb who can buy a serp will use that serp... this might be less of an issue if the combaty XP was revised so that fists aren't the best weapon, but letting them use serps on rabbits will encourage them to do silly things
  
• annoy the higher level players. there's a variety here. from serping training critters, to the newb thinking (and acting as if) they're better than a mid-level player because they have better gear (I mean, hey, I use steel chain on trolls and ogres, and I doubt I'm the only one... some newb in plate may think they're better than me... yes, they're making bad assumptions, but when they're a newb is when they're expected not to understand the game and they should be shown how it all works properly)
  

so it's the more valuable (assumedly) higher-level players who are penalised instead

As for a motivation to level up, umm... how about... like.. being able to kill stronger monsters and players?

hmm... a 20/20 in leather vs a 10/10 in plate w/ serp... who wins? (no, I don't know the comparison, but it's still illustrative)... as you get to higher levels this becomes a bit less of an issue, but being able to kill higher level stuff isn't just from the levels, it's also from the bank account

oh, and another thing... you already have human nexus. so at some point these issues or some like them must have made sense to you (or maybe someone else)

 

I know this has come up many times before, and what your opinion on it is, but many players (and developers) disagree here... how about if it was put to poll?

[Thordin]

...how about if it was put to poll?

 

I was about that when I created this thread, but since this was my first thread, I was afraid to put a poll in it