Lord of the flies day

[flinto]

Ok, i read hardly 5 pages of this thread before i got tired, so maybe someone pointed this out before. If so i'm sorry But:

the community is one of the draw-cards of EL, isn't it?

then why do you think you would get pwned in ws docks and noone would defend you?

 

I was playing a game that used a 'pk everywhere' strategy before and i havent got pk'ed a single time i think 90% of EL pk'ers would just attack eachother instead of hunting helpless non-fighters and the remaining 10% would add some excitment to the game still being too few of them to ruin the lives of poor ordinary manuers

 

I'm totally Yes

 

 

Yes but what you haven't taken into account is:

1. This would be a rare day and not like a pk anywhere and anytime game.

2. People have been stating that the pk side of the game is a little dead (if I have read other threads correctly -no real experience)

3. These two coupled together will cause a hunt to take place (admittedly only for mediocre and above fighters)

So comparing EL with pk everywhere games just isn't the same.

[Czpil]

Maybe, but:

People have been stating that the pk side of the game is a little dead

is just another argument in favor of LotF day.

[LadyWolf]

Ok, i read hardly 5 pages of this thread before i got tired, so maybe someone pointed this out before. If so i'm sorry But:

the community is one of the draw-cards of EL, isn't it?

then why do you think you would get pwned in ws docks and noone would defend you?

 

I was playing a game that used a 'pk everywhere' strategy before and i havent got pk'ed a single time i think 90% of EL pk'ers would just attack eachother instead of hunting helpless non-fighters and the remaining 10% would add some excitment to the game still being too few of them to ruin the lives of poor ordinary manuers

 

I'm totally Yes

 

A voice of reason here. The pk'ers are going to pk each other. Sure there might be a few lower levels that bite the bullet, but I think there is alot over over exaggeration/imagination going on here.

[flinto]

Maybe, but:

People have been stating that the pk side of the game is a little dead

is just another argument in favor of LotF day.

 

 

errrrrmmmmmm no - why should we all suffer because a few dont have enough victims

[Czpil]

Suffer? C'mon. And i'm sure most of them will be busy with eachother- every hunter will be a possible victim. Plus- have in mind that negative special days aren't here to make all ppl suffer the same, but to balance the positive days. Expect something like decreasing the bonus on "more rare items manued" day if this will be rejected. Finally, i can't see anything wrong with sitting at beam for a few hours socializing you can always sing "qumbaya" if you get really bored

[Dent]

 

A voice of reason here. The pk'ers are going to pk each other. Sure there might be a few lower levels that bite the bullet, but I think there is alot over over exaggeration/imagination going on here.

 

If it is just going to be the PK'ers, then why change anything?

[Arnieman]

I just thought of an idea - what if this day were reworked a bit - like I said, I don't want to be forced to fight people - and if a way is provided that people have this choice by a game mechanism, I have no problem with letting the PKers have their fun.

 

So, here is a brief sketch of my idea - the day comes, and everyone in this range is "PKable"... hmm, not much different so far. Now, that said, they can be attacked - but also can't attack, except on existing PK maps. Now, so as not to leave this day pointless, you could have NPCs selling two types of a "license" - one woul be a hunting license, giving you the ability to hunt these PKable people; the other would be a banner of protection (of sorts), granting you freedom from being killed. Having one would not allow you to buy the other - If you refuse to be killed, you cannot kill as well, and conversely, If you want to kill, you have to accept being killed as "fair game".

 

Anyway, if you want, you could sell them either valid "globally" or "locally" - gloally would mean that they buy a pass, and it gives them the effect of their license everywhere but the PK maps; locally would mean that for each map they enter, they need to find the leader of the region (maybe a new use for Lord Luxin, Kalana, Nyeald...), and then have the effect in any region under that leader's protection. If done as a gloal effect, I think it should be sold by 3 NPCs - 1 easy to find, and massively overpriced, 1 moderately hard to find selling at a moderately high price, and 1 near impossiblle to find with the lowest price (actually reaonable). If done locally, it could be sold by an NPC who governs the region, and you would have to buy a banner of protection from the leader of any region you want to safely enter - This could leave a few areas without licence sellers, like SKF, VC, maybe GP and Naralik , probably not MM (could either be its own NPC, use licenses of PL & WS, or be left "wild"). PK maps/area would not be affected by licenses at all - if you choose to enter a PK area, you choose to do so, and there's no real way to protect you (or any reason to have a license).

 

Now, actually buying the licenses - you have to but the license on that special day, and it would be good till the day expires. It could be an item that has to be equipped, or not a real item - just a guarantee. If it's an item, it should be nondroppable, untrade-able, and disppearing after the day ends. Again, you could only have the hunting license or the protection banner, not both (at least, not effective in the same region). Now, if people try to buy these outside of the day, or someone under 120 a+d tries to "buy in", it could give a console message saying something like "<NPC> laughs at you, and takes your money without giving you a license."

 

I just wanted to give a counter idea.

[Torg]

So, here is a brief sketch of my idea - the day comes, and everyone in this range is "PKable"... hmm, not much different so far. Now, that said, they can be attacked - but also can't attack, except on existing PK maps. Now, so as not to leave this day pointless, you could have NPCs selling two types of a "license" - one woul be a hunting license, giving you the ability to hunt these PKable people; the other would be a banner of protection (of sorts), granting you freedom from being killed. Having one would not allow you to buy the other - If you refuse to be killed, you cannot kill as well, and conversely, If you want to kill, you have to accept being killed as "fair game".

Actually, I don't mind this idea. But I would suggest, what's the point of the hunting licence, it's not a "special day" then. So I would suggest just having the banner of protection available for purchase for a reasonably large amount of money for those who don't want to get involved and take their chances, or don't want to hang out on IP.

[TirunCollimdus]

The license to kill and pardon idea are good but you still wind up with people complaining they did not even get a chance to buy one. If you give time to buy one you can have the constant sign on that ttlanhil is talking about. No matter what you do there needs to be a way to avoid being a target and everyone seems to agree on that. The problem is that if you can avoid being a target you will and that means that the day will have absolutely no effect except to inconvenience players who are waiting in safe areas with friends bringing them stuff or relogging to avoid it. There will only be the normal PKers left being able to PK each other any where instead of PK maps only and that could be abused if PK near storage was allowed.

 

We all agree you should not force players who do not want to be victims into being ducks in a barrel because that would do more harm than good. If the PK maps are empty is because most players are no PKing. If you want more PK in the game you will get it by putting the new metals in the PK maps only. You are giving players a choice as to whether they want to risk getting killed to get the metals. Make the rewards for risking a PK map worth doing and you will more pvp in a fair manner. When the Nordcarn cave to Tarsengaard cave was PK I would run it all of the time because it was convenient and I was willing to take the risk on my own. Any other method of forcing pvp is going to destroy the game and the community.

 

Either most players are Pkers and the PK maps are always full and there is no need for this day or the PK maps are empty as some have been complaining about here because most players do not PK and there should not be a day like this because it will just change where people go to avoid the PKers not suddenly make everyone want to get pawned by the PKers most of whom will be running around pawning as many weak players as they can find. You will not increase any pvp just change where it happens with this day and that is a waste of time.

 

Tirun Collimdus The last mass ban could have changed the composition of the PK community in the game so that most PKers do not do their best to pawn weak players all of the time instead of actually risking anything in a real fight. If this is the case it has not managed to become self evident yet. I hope it has changed and we can all have more fun all of the time because of it. I am not however relying on it to save my hide in a PK map.

 

No matter how this discussion goes it always turns on choices and if there is a choice no one who is going to be a target is going to suddenly decide they like PK maps. They will move to safety and the day will do nothing except help no PKers meet more non Pkers while they are all hiding and waiting for the day to be over.

[Ornitorrinco]

The license to kill and pardon idea are good but you still wind up with people complaining they did not even get a chance to buy one. If you give time to buy one you can have the constant sign on that ttlanhil is talking about. No matter what you do there needs to be a way to avoid being a target and everyone seems to agree on that. The problem is that if you can avoid being a target you will and that means that the day will have absolutely no effect except to inconvenience players who are waiting in safe areas with friends bringing them stuff or relogging to avoid it. There will only be the normal PKers left being able to PK each other any where instead of PK maps only and that could be abused if PK near storage was allowed.

 

We all agree you should not force players who do not want to be victims into being ducks in a barrel because that would do more harm than good. If the PK maps are empty is because most players are no PKing. If you want more PK in the game you will get it by putting the new metals in the PK maps only. You are giving players a choice as to whether they want to risk getting killed to get the metals. Make the rewards for risking a PK map worth doing and you will more pvp in a fair manner. When the Nordcarn cave to Tarsengaard cave was PK I would run it all of the time because it was convenient and I was willing to take the risk on my own. Any other method of forcing pvp is going to destroy the game and the community.

 

Either most players are Pkers and the PK maps are always full and there is no need for this day or the PK maps are empty as some have been complaining about here because most players do not PK and there should not be a day like this because it will just change where people go to avoid the PKers not suddenly make everyone want to get pawned by the PKers most of whom will be running around pawning as many weak players as they can find. You will not increase any pvp just change where it happens with this day and that is a waste of time.

 

Tirun Collimdus The last mass ban could have changed the composition of the PK community in the game so that most PKers do not do their best to pawn weak players all of the time instead of actually risking anything in a real fight. If this is the case it has not managed to become self evident yet. I hope it has changed and we can all have more fun all of the time because of it. I am not however relying on it to save my hide in a PK map.

 

No matter how this discussion goes it always turns on choices and if there is a choice no one who is going to be a target is going to suddenly decide they like PK maps. They will move to safety and the day will do nothing except help no PKers meet more non Pkers while they are all hiding and waiting for the day to be over.

 

You suggest people should get banned because they pk weaker people? That's insane.. just because you want to make 100k tit bars the game should be all easy for you to get your objective with click click? NO way, the more challenge and conflict the best it gets, so if you wanna be safe you get friends to fight for you.

[Arnieman]

I don't believe he suggested it SHOULD happen - but that it DID happen. Maybe you remember that issue a few months back?

 

Who has ever tried to just make 100k tit bars? I mean, I know I'm insane with my mass projects at times, but geez! that's a bit excessive... Not that it doesn't help you any (titanium makes armor and weapons, which tend to be used in fighting), but tell me what good this day can have - remembering that people mke things, and sell to PKers, so that they can PK? Some people get seriously pissed off because people enter PK areas for something other than PK - how does ores in PK OR this day help that?

 

And, to use your own logic - just because you want to PK people the game should be all easy for you to get your objective with click click?

[Ornitorrinco]

Your logic is flawed. It won't be easy click click if you have friends to protect you, if there is strategy. With all shelter all places what is the strategy? To find the shortest way from mine to storage? wtg....

 

And, btw, I don't think they got banned by pking weaker ppl.

Edited March 25, 2006 by Ornitorrinco

[diablox]

I voted yes, but I have a suggestion. Instead of this just being a random day, can we be notified about it so we arn't just sitting somewhere one minute with valuable crap, then the next minute in Hell? Maybe instead of a day it could be a monthly event....

[Dent]

If the PK'ers want something to do that is different, put the ant hill in a PK map for a day.

[diablox]

If the PK'ers want something to do that is different, put the ant hill in a PK map for a day.

 

I like that... But, you wouldn't get anything good unless you call bones and leather stuff "valuable."

[Arnieman]

Your logic is flawed. It won't be easy click click if you have friends to protect you, if there is strategy. With all shelter all places what is the strategy? To find the shortest way from mine to storage? wtg....

 

And, btw, I don't think they got banned by pking weaker ppl.

Ok, current battle strategy, tell me if I'm wrong - Wear the best armor, have the best weapon, have good p/c. Get into battle, every 2 seconds you can cast a spell, a click. Except for cooldowns, you have items - another click. If you start losing, diss ring + tele ring - another click. If you want to attack, another click. That isn't an easy strategy if you have the better a/d?

 

And, I never said they were banned for that (a couple people have/had been punished for illegal multiplay to pk weaker people), I (and I believe Tirun too) said that they did PK weaker people, and they did get bans - two unrelated points.

 

I am going to stick by my thought - if you want more pvp, make it worth someone's time. Barely getting that 10 seconds in a PK map before staring at the Underworld isn't strategy, that's simple click-click-click.

 

Dialox - you'd be surprised what the Ants manage to get their hands on - though most of it may seem worthless to PKers.

[TirunCollimdus]

You suggest people should get banned because they pk weaker people? That's insane.. just because you want to make 100k tit bars the game should be all easy for you to get your objective with click click? NO way, the more challenge and conflict the best it gets, so if you wanna be safe you get friends to fight for you.

 

 

No clue how you got my saying PKers should be banned from my post. I have no problem with PKers being the way they are because I do not go into PK maps unless I am ready for the risk. My post was entirely about the fact that this day would not change anything if implemented as suggest with time to get to safe places. Your problem is that you are incapable of understanding that some people actually enjoy cooperation and do not need outside assistance to find challenges. I have assigned very daunting challenges for myself and I do a lot of things along with playing the game that make just getting time to worry about my own character challenging enough.

 

If the day was added and no time was given to allow players to get to safe places or their were no safe places it still would not change anything because you would have an empty server except for the PKers and they would still not have anyone new or different to attack. The PKers themselves state they do not play on Peace Day. What is going to make this any different in the opposite spectrum? People do not want their stuff stolen when they have not change to save or protect themselves so the do not play. No added PVP no extra challenge nothing. You cannot make players play the game in ways they do not want to play it. Period.

 

Putting resources in PK only areas is a great way to add pvp to the game in a fair way that everyone can appreciate. This day is not a challenge. It is at best a waste and at worst damaging to the game and community. If you want to spread PK or pvp through out the game then do what everyone else does and make it choosable or add a karma system or some other type of control that makes it fair to everyone.

 

Tirun Collimdus You cannot make it fair and have it have any effect other than putting lots of people in the same safe areas. You cannot make it unfair without just emptying the sever. There is no point to this day.

[Dent]

as far as I can tell, so far the arguments are:

 

For -

1) this will be fun

2) this wil be exciting

3) this will be cool.

4) this will let us get mad stuffs from mediocre players.

5) this will add a new dimension to the game.

 

Against -

1) people who are worried about this or affected will just not play.

2) some folks who are here to achieve productive goals and who would never PK will be caught out, robbed and killed.

3) By the time you are high enough level to be affected by this, you either are pro PK or against it, and you play accordingly. This will mean that PK'ers get to kill eachother, if they can find eachother, through a much larger area than just the PK maps / areas.

4) This will not be fun for non - PK'ers and most likely not for PK'ers either. Think about it : same number of targets + much bigger area = fewer fights. This means no fun, no excitement, not cool, and no new mad stuffs.

5) some folks are afraid of losing things that they worked for by a player that is impossible for them to compete with.

6) some folks (or their parents) find PK abhorrent. I can think of no other day that can be objected to on moral grounds.

7) There will be nothing added to the game by this. All it does is take things away. Players, targets (3+4), equipment, production by the missing players. Think about this - the backbone of the community are very close to all falling into the range proposed by this Day. That is the guild leaders, the oldbies, NH's, healers, and manufacturers of all types. A day without the voices of experience and reason on the server. Hmmm. maybe that does count as 'exciting' to some folks.

 

can there really be any doubt?

[RallosZek]

Here's a point all the non fighters are failing to think about. Peace day can make it where most of the bigger fighters can't do ANYTHING at all. Why? Because ALOT of them don't have pickpoints put into nexuses other than human and maybe 2 inorganic.

 

So why shouldn't the non fighters have a day where they have to go sit at the beam and chat?

You mean Fasting day *and* No manufacturing day?

 

Not to mention the distinction between fighter and PKer, where no drop day hurts as well.

Gimme my "filled tommy day" and sure, then I'm for balancing peace day with lord of the flies.

 

Here's some perspective:

• Acid Rain day: does not force anything, lowers rate of flower harvesting.
  
• Day of Fasting: forces fighting with stock of SR/BR/Essences
  
• Day of more grief: does not force anything
  
• Day of no grief: does not force anything, beneficial to all.
  
• Day of the brave: does not force anything, decreases training options, increases demand for rostogol stones
  
• Day of the dead: does not force anything, slight increase in resource consumption with less return value
  
• Day of the print: does not force anything, beneficial only to people who still need knowledge
  
• Decreased rare manufacturing day: does not force anything, temporarily increases EFE price
  
• Green Day: does not force anything *until* stocks are out, but economy can handle. Significant slowdown for new characters.
  
• Healing day: does not force anything, beneficial to all.
  
• Increased harvesting events day: does not force anything; slight increase in breaking pickaxes and frequent flyer miles.
  
• Increased rare manufacturing day: does not force anything, beneficial to all (slight drop in armor prices)
  
• Labor day: forces fighting, more storage runs (bones vs bone powder, non-stackable sr's vs ingredients), overcamped spawns
  
• No drops day: does not force anything, decreases manufacturing of products needing animal dropped ingredients, hard on summoners, hard on fighters that need drops to pay for their breaking items.
  
• Peace day: forces manufacturing, decreases manufacturing of products needing animal dropped ingredients, hard on summoners.
  
• Reconstruction day: does not force anything, beneficial to all
  
• Scholars day: does not force anything, beneficial to all
  
• Scientists day: does not force anything, beneficial only to people who have the nexuses but lack the knowledge
  
• Scotties vacation: does not force anything, beneficial to crafters
  
• Solar Flares day: does not force anything, hard on newbies and afk-people without FR
  

So there's 2 days that force fighting, 1 that forces manufacturing. With force, I do mean, you do not have the option at all. No drops day, doesn't affect PKers anymore then rostos do.

[sleepwalker]

If you weant to pk there's planty of places for you to go and do it don't drag those in that don't pk, if all EL becomes pk a lot will leave, go to a pk map or if you like dying just keep typing #suicide

[Sweettea]

I am NOT a Pker. But I still would like this day. It'd been said before It's only ONE day. Not everyday! I don't approve of killing EL citizens just for their items,t hats just plain theivery. But I have walked thru Pk maps and they are Empty! I went through like allt he Pk maps and didnt see any Okers, lol. I survived! Pk is part of the game and however much I may dislike bagjumpers who go by the title of Pker. It is part of the game that needs something to it as well. We can't have that part of the game die out. It would be like an adventure day. Thats How I see it anyways. And not EVERYone would even be affected!!!

 

I don't like having my stuff stolen but I think adding more to EL could be a good thing.

[RallosZek]

I am NOT a Pker. But I still would like this day. It'd been said before It's only ONE day. Not everyday! I don't approve of killing EL citizens just for their items,t hats just plain theivery. But I have walked thru Pk maps and they are Empty!

 

Ah, but if PK lacks content, 6 hours of people sitting at beam or playing alts with lower a/d isn't gonna fix that.

 

Mostly, PK lacks insentive. There's no PK rankings, points system and no reward other then a death quote in a forum sig and items that can be replaced *always* given time.

 

Make PK a skill, independant of a/d and you're already a step forward. Reduce a/d exp for PKers they get from AI creatures in non-pk maps and/or increase it in PK maps, give option to always be PKable as a way of life. Just some loose ideas, but forcing an entire community to do something for 6 hours is truely a bad idea and there's already 3 of those days in the game.

 

For some 6 hours is already is all the time they spend in a day, for some 6 hours comes at the wrong time, cause they already did 6 hours of something and now will have to do 6 hours more.

[Laira]

I dont think it is a good idea...

 

it would be if all of our stats were the same as in every single player including noobs <-- this is the only way it could really be fair....

[Thordin]

I think, that some lazy or maybe mean players are trying to benefit on the other weaker players. You're always saying that PKers have no other nexuses, but who fault is this? Only theirs. If there's no fight day, they should be doing some MORE useful things than just sitting on beam and cleaning their weapons

I voted 100% AGAINST this day. I chose EL because, I'm not forced to fight with other players if I don't want to. And save your threaths on me PKers, I'm not wandering through PK areas

[Infamous]

I think, that some lazy or maybe mean players are trying to benefit on the other weaker players. You're always saying that PKers have no other nexuses, but who fault is this? Only theirs. If there's no fight day, they should be doing some MORE useful things than just sitting on beam and cleaning their weapons

I voted 100% AGAINST this day. I chose EL because, I'm not forced to fight with other players if I don't want to. And save your threaths on me PKers, I'm not wandering through PK areas

 

i don't think that's a good argument, we can say in return that it is your fault that you don't have big a/d :/