Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Sign in to follow this  
shenriss

after a long reflexion about reset, perks

Recommended Posts

- For the moment if you want be able do all in all skills you need 28 pick points.

- You need also some pick points use for attributes.

- Overall levels need expenentials amounts of experiences.

 

For the moment you have some choices

1. don't play on all skills (mean make class)

2. use negative perks (most have effect for only some skills, it help make class and wasn't the goal i think)

3. train fighting skills (easier to win exp for have pick points to spend, some train it only for have pick points)

 

I suggest like in a lot of other game have an extra pick point to each 10 OA (i first though to each 5 OA but can maybe give a lot pp if we keep neg perks, but i think it's best than neg perk, look on thread discuss about negatives perks)

 

Why?

 

1. give a goal to have a better OA

2. can play without negative perks if we want and play all skills

3. need more reflexion about reset for fighters to win more experience

4. for who don't reset give rewards

 

p.s. : i don't suggest it for have a personnal advantage, i didn't took any negative perks and can take some.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree... In fact looks like a only harvesters are really rewarded adequately with cash and xp.. all other skills don't have a good enough reward.

 

I also agree on class based characters that are balanced.. however the current skillsets as is are not balanced, so I think that needs to be fixed before adding classes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I also agree on class based characters that are balanced.. however the current skillsets as is are not balanced, so I think that needs to be fixed before adding classes.

201350[/snapback]

 

Just replying before someone else does (inevitably) regarding this. EL has no classes and was designed to be a classless system. If the Dev's/Mod's have any plans to implement classes they haven't shared it with anyone and have done a consummate deception job by denying repeatedly (average seems to be about once a week on the forums) that EL will ever have classes.

 

So there ya go really - you make your own 'class' by what skills you choose to level and which skills you ignore. You're a fighter, I'm an all rounder, Beorn is an alchemist - by our choices. The great thing about this system is that if you get bored of fighting or Beorn gets bored of alchemy there are no penalties to developing a new skill, like crafting ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree... In fact looks like a only harvesters are really rewarded adequately with cash and xp.. all other skills don't have a good enough reward.

 

I also agree on class based characters that are balanced.. however the current skillsets as is are not balanced, so I think that needs to be fixed before adding classes.

201350[/snapback]

Erm classes should NOT be added. A LOT of people want to be all arounders, not forced into specializing.

 

And what are you on to think harvesters get the best exp and gc reward? I harvest titanium ore with 22 will, and the max I can get per hour is 6600 exp points. Have you looked at how much exp an alchemist or fighter can make in that same hour? And how much gc they can make? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
- For the moment if you want be able do all in all skills you need 28 pick points.

all in all?

7 human (thermal serp)

6 artificial (steel and tit axe)

5 animal

5 vegetal

5 inorganic

3 magic

total: 31

 

likely to be used?

5 human (3 is enough for almost everyone though)

5 artificial (who is going to make cash on axen?)

5 animal

4 vegetal (SRs and BRs ae the ones that most people want)

5 inorganic

3 magic

total: 27

- You need also some pick points use for attributes.

- Overall levels need expenentials amounts of experiences.

 

For the moment you have some choices

1. don't play on all skills (mean make class)

no. a class is a preset group of limits. classes force you to chose one of X paths. in EL, you chose which ones you want (whether you want to try to do all skills or none)

besides, by the time you have the levels to be able to do the top-nexus things (which will take you a long time), you'll have the OA to afford it

2. use negative perks (most have effect for only some skills, it help make class and wasn't the goal i think)

again, class is a preset definition. perks do help define your character though (which, I'm guessing, is what you mean)

3. train fighting skills (easier to win exp for have pick points to spend, some train it only for have pick points)

or make HE, or leather pants, or harvest tit ore, or... well... you get the idea. if you want to be able to do the stuff that requires top nexus, you need the levels anyway

I suggest like in a lot of other game have an extra pick point to each 10 OA (i first though to each 5 OA but can maybe give a lot pp if we keep neg perks, but i think it's best than neg perk, look on thread discuss about negatives perks)

 

Why?

 

1. give a goal to have a better OA

2. can play without negative perks if we want and play all skills

3. need

more reflexion about reset for fighters to win more experience

4. for who don't reset give rewards

 

p.s. : i don't suggest it for have a personnal advantage, i didn't took any negative perks and can take some.

201341[/snapback]

you could make it 2PP per OA level... and then the p/c people expect to be able to have will double, and monsters will have to be tougher, things may have to weigh more... it will get ballanced out and you don't really gain anything

 

there are issues with nexii, yeah, but just getting more PP won't solve the issue

I agree... In fact looks like a only harvesters are really rewarded adequately with cash and xp.. all other skills don't have a good enough reward.

 

I also agree on class based characters that are balanced.. however the current skillsets as is are not balanced, so I think that needs to be fixed before adding classes.

201350[/snapback]

how about you go buy some clues (on market channel, which means go play the game, you don't seem to have much idea how EL works) before ranting about harvesters, hmm?

 

and back to shenriss again: if I seem a bit abrupt, attribute it to reading ph3r3's post, not yours ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i didn't told we need class, i don't want it ;)

i just try give a suggestion for not people train, reset, train, reset, train....

 

i don't spoke about 2 pp per OA cause it give the same problem, just one per 10 oa,

 

why continue and don't reset if you have 10 million exp to do per OA and win less exp than if you reset?

 

for the fighters part and for other be able use all skills at low lower level, i may explain badly what i mean...

 

and i always continue to think, without neg perk, an extra pp per 5 oa may keep same chance to all and give a goal have high OA.

 

now, like some did, if you want you can just take all neg perk and sit on KF

103/111/44/90 seems to be not bad cause to long train more level and wait for new pick points.

 

if reset wasn't too usefull, a lot of players should be in 120's OA level

 

edit: nexus problem can be solve by have a minimal level for be able make an items

Edited by shenriss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
edit: nexus problem can be solve by have a minimal level for be able make an items

201392[/snapback]

yes. we could make PP only for stats, and it might work... fair bit of effort to make it all wok right though, so don't expect solutions to be in place tomorrow ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yes. we could make PP only for stats, and it might work... fair bit of effort to make it all wok right though, so don't expect solutions to be in place tomorrow :(

201394[/snapback]

 

of course i know it's hard to think of all issue, that's why i ask at all what they think of it, i don't tell i have the solution maybe a pert of it ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
edit: nexus problem can be solve by have a minimal level for be able make an items

201392[/snapback]

We used to have this, and imo it was a LOT better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We used to have this, and imo it was a LOT better.

201399[/snapback]

have to agree on that it was better i think even thoo it requiered alot more work ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Classes would be a step backward. One thing that makes EL so special, is that we can train every combination of skills. There are no plans to change to a class system.

 

The thing with the pickpoints is a bit difficult. On the one hand I can understand allrounders, it's hard for them to become masters of all skills on the other hand I think that's the way it should be. Since this is a massive multiplayer roleplay game we should enforce teamplay. Mastery in skills should become much harder or even impossible - people should be forced to cooperate. If a player decides against that, it's her/his right to do that, but she/he should reckon that it will become very hard to be very good in all skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since this is a massive multiplayer roleplay game we should enforce teamplay. Mastery in skills should become much harder or even impossible - people should be forced to cooperate. If a player decides against that, it's her/his right to do that, but she/he should reckon that it will become very hard to be very good in all skills.

201566[/snapback]

I disagree totally with the theory that mastery of all skills automatically implies that people won't cooperate or work with other players. Everyone who argues against all arounders uses that as their main reason yet I don't know any all arounders who want to be loners. Just because we like all skills and would like to use them does NOT mean we don't want to work/play/cooperate with others. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the one hand I can understand allrounders, it's hard for them to become masters of all skills on the other hand I think that's the way it should be. Since this is a massive multiplayer roleplay game we should enforce teamplay. Mastery in skills should become much harder or even impossible - people should be forced to cooperate. If a player decides against that, it's her/his right to do that, but she/he should reckon that it will become very hard to be very good in all skills.

201566[/snapback]

 

Agreeing with Aisy here - I'm an allrounder (except summoning) and I think that most of the people from my TZ that see me would agree that I'm sociable. Most of the really social players I encounter would be allrounders too I think. Nothing against those who concentrate on a single aspect of the game. I know that one of the reasons I want to be good at all the skills is to be more useful to other players, either on a friendship or a pay basis. That does seem to be a common attitude amonst the allrounders, along with the desire to have a command of the skills from the purely selfish reason of wanting to get the feeling of achievement that comes from it :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I disagree totally with the theory that mastery of all skills automatically implies that people won't cooperate or work with other players.  Everyone who argues against all arounders uses that as their main reason yet I don't know any all arounders who want to be loners.  Just because we like all skills and would like to use them does NOT mean we don't want to work/play/cooperate with others.  :blink:

201573[/snapback]

 

Maybe I expressed myself not really good. I didn't want to label all jacks-of-all-trades as antisocial people, that'd be nonsense of course. All I wanted to say is that if someone decides to do something that opposes the idea of a market-economy, the person should be aware that this will be much harder than to focus on fewer products/professions. Of course this statement was made out of an economic point of view and there are plenty of other things that are important and to be considered in a game. But I think making the life of allrounders easier by handing out more pp, will destort the gameplay for the majority of players that are not allrounders. And that's what we should really discuss - the sideeffects.

 

- kl4Uz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe I expressed myself not really good. I didn't want to label all jacks-of-all-trades as antisocial people, that'd be nonsense of course. All I wanted to say is that if someone decides to do something that opposes the idea of a market-economy, the person should be aware that this will be much harder than to focus on fewer products/professions. Of course this statement was made out of an economic point of view and there are plenty of other things that are important and to be considered in a game. But I think making the life of allrounders easier by handing out more pp, will destort the gameplay for the majority of players that are not allrounders. And that's what we should really discuss - the sideeffects.

 

- kl4Uz

201621[/snapback]

 

what i spoke about didn't change a lot for who want be master in a few skills but help a bit who want play most skills i think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree totally with Shenriss in this issue.

I am trying to be an all arounder and reseted recently. Its just crazy the amount of training you have to do to make things you should do with your skill easily.

If you dont focus in a few skills, you will never be able to do anything decently. If its not a class system its close to it.

EDIT: I agree that for all arounders should be some penalty. But that 22 pps that Ttlanhil is refering to is too harsh.

Edited by Lorck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And what about planning your progress carefully, from the beginning ?

 

Most of people I know who reset, did so "because they wanted to get rid of their negative perks". Or out of boredom.

 

My point being : I won't need any reset because I planned my evolution since the beginning, each pickpoint being attributed with care (Yes, I DID plan my investment in Instinct and Vitality !). Right now, I'm exactly what I wanted to be, and I don't resent my two negative perks, for they are part of my way-to-play (I dare not say "roleplay"). The game's been more fun to me that way, I'm convinced, than if I had rushed all my pickpoints without thinking beforehand and been forced to reset because of miscalculations...

 

Now to the topic.

 

Shenriss' idea does not sound bad, in my opinion, but is a little bit too straightforward to my taste. Instead of granting an extra pickpoint per 10 overall levels, why not grant that extra pickpoint when you achieve a specific goal, such as gaining 10 levels in att/def, 10 levels summoning/magic, 10 levels crafting/manufacturing, 10 levels harvesting/alchemy ? Or make it 20 levels if 10 seems to easy to gain. That way, you get some benefit from being a "specialist", but you're not "out of the league" for being an all-rounder either...

 

Mind you, I'm content as it is, I'm just discussing an idea that seems interesting to me...

Edited by Nyxl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My point being : I won't need any reset because I planned my evolution since the beginning, each pickpoint being attributed with care

201769[/snapback]

that's not taking into account experimentation, especially from newbies who wanna see what perks are like to live with

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
that's not taking into account experimentation, especially from newbies who wanna see what perks are like to live with

201770[/snapback]

Agreed, I was just exposing one "philosophy" (mine, in that case), to remind people that "reset" is most certainly not an obliged path to building one character.

 

As to "experimenting", and let me apologize in advance for being picky, I'll refer to authorized and acknowledged multiplaying. If some have the time to perform a reset and endure its effects, they probably have the time to experiment stuff on another character without impairing much their main character's training (and yes, I'm considering the specific skills experience amount to nothing in this, since it's Overall that counts in the making of pickpoints).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thermal serp isn't 6 human nexus ?  :blush:

201921[/snapback]

well, last I checked, magic serp is 6, and thermal 7. might be mistaken though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And a thing i forgot to add. People who is more hungry by pickpoints (all arounders) to buy nexuses cant take most perks because they are too restrictive to such characters.

If you take some negative perk supposed to fighters it cripple your fighter side. If you take a negative perk supposed to traders it cripple your trader side.

My suggestion: Every 25 lvls in one skill (harvest, attack, crafting, etc) you gain a bonus pickpoint.

Maybe this way brings more balance. In the current system you have to train a skill much more than a specialist to gain the same benefit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×