Michael Crook

[Entropy]

You see, the problem with the US is that it tries to "spread freedom and democracy" around the world, sometimss against the will of the population they try to do that to.

Besides, there are a lot of Americans that are not exactly happy with the government. Oh, BTW, why is everyone who criticizes the right wing neocon government called unpatriotic and unamerican?

[Placid]

Don't you think the American's resemble the Romans? Crushing opponents who won't trade fairly (Oil - Iraq), crushing opposition politcal views for fear of revolution - Iraq?

 

The trouble with 'freedom of speech' is that no matter who you are, where you come from, your entitled to express your opinions (Michael Crook shouldn't have the right to express these pathetic views), regardless of your true intentions.

[JaneMuffin]

Wow!! This topic has really expanded!

 

I think we can all agree that Micheal Crook is an IDIOT, but he has a right to do what he does.

 

He will have that right until he is preceived a threat and then the government will put him out of commission.

 

Americans have alot of patriotism and its great. But all nations have patriotism. My husband is from Turkey and if you ask him (and I am DEAD serious) he will tell you that not only was Abraham Lincoln Trukish, but so was Elvis Prestley and the whole Kennedy clan!

 

May sound outlandish, but the fact of the matter is that people like to praise their country and be prooud of where they live.

 

Some people like Micheal Crook take an opposite stance and choose to bash the country in which they live, which is 100% okay, because in other countries with less freedoms (I mean mostly IRAN, but Iraq too before Saddam was toppled) he would be killed for his opinions.

 

As an example, anyone here ever read the book "Satanic Versus" by Salmon Rashdi? (I am not sure of the spelling of his name). That poor man was not only run out of Iran but was hunted all over the world by people who did not agree with him.

 

Also, in Iraq, peoples whole families were slaughtered because they spoke up against Saddam and the secret police. I am not saying this from media reports either! My Sister in Law (Well soon to be, they are ingaged) and my aunt and a few other people I know where born in Iraq and spent most of their lives there.

 

As a matter of fact, my aunt told me a story of a co-worker who's father was anti-Saddam. Guess what happened? They whole family disappeared! The Father had made a mistake of bad mouthing Saddam in a coffee shop.

 

Another incident I heard about is a group of woman (presumed to be prostitues) were hanged in public for having sex out of wedlock.

 

And yet another, When I lived in Central California, there was a TV studio/Cultural center next door to my house. The man who ran the TV station, KBSV-Assyria Satalite, was put on a deathlist by Saddam.

 

One day as we were sitting int he back yard we noticed that there was swat agents on the roof of the TV station next door! We went inside and waited until the situation was resolved. That night on the news they said that soemone had tried to kill the TV guy!!!

 

Later the TV guy himself annouced it was one of Saddams Henchmen. After the war with Iraq he successfully sued Saddam for 2 Million dollars. The case was never confirmed (prolly cuz the guy did not want to share his money, I would have been the first in line, "I am your Father..er Mother!!)

 

Saddam was a BAD guy, I am truely happy he is out of the picture. But I think I have mentioned before, I really dont care for the middle east at all (and I can say this cuz I was born there).

 

I feel they have not contributed positively to our society for a long LONG time and have only caused trouble.

 

One last thing (and please dont beat me up for this) I think we are wasting American lives and in the end it wont be appreciated at all. Whats that saying about never trusting a snake?

 

That snake is the middle east, no matter how good you are to them they will always turn around and bite you in the end.

 

I support our tropp 100% and althought I dont agree with the president on everything I think he is brave for taking on the middle east. At least he is not bombing asprin factories just to "wag the dog"

 

Now I will go hide

 

JaneMuffin

Edited June 2, 2005 by JaneMuffin

[Anastasia]

Oh, BTW, why is everyone who criticizes the right wing neocon government called unpatriotic and unamerican?

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Because they hate America, obviously.

[Mireille]

Because they hate America, obviously.

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ROTFL! Fanatism detected.

Edited June 2, 2005 by Mireille

[Anastasia]

I was being sarcastic.

[Mireille]

I was being sarcastic.

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Good.

[Entropy]

JaneMuffin, I never said that Saddam was/is a wonderful human being. However, US (and Bush) had no right to invade it like that, based on lies and bullshit.

[Placid]

You'll be spewing when Iran is invaded soon then.

 

Michael Crook will have a field day.

[JaneMuffin]

JaneMuffin, I never said that Saddam was/is a wonderful human being. However, US (and Bush) had no right to invade it like that, based on lies and bullshit.

 

Did you know that Sean Penn (yes the has been actor, who even Modonna dumped) was threatening to go be a human shield at one of Saddams palaces?? Not at a school or a hospital but at a palace!! lmao, priorities! But I guess being one of the rich they stick together

 

You'll be spewing when Iran is invaded soon then.

 

Michael Crook will have a field day.

 

Was this directed towards me? Actually to tell you the truth Iran deserves to be invaded, but I would be 100000000% against it. Not because I have some sick loyalty to a country that not only threatened to kill me and my family because we happened to be catholics instead of moslems, but because I would HATE to see one more life (American or allie) being taken for the sake of spreading Freedom to a place where it would not be understood.

 

I think you all know that it was the young university students (who are now protesting against the goverment) who started the revolution that eventually turned Iran into the garbage it is today.

 

In Iran back in the late 70's 90% of the population believed like Micheal Crook does, that the Government is evil and that the military sucks.

 

Once I saw my dad sitting alone in the livingroom looking really depressed, I asked him what was up? He said that he had just watched a news report that said George Bush is an evil dictator and that we should all group up and make sure he is toppled. I found out later that he watched the Micheal Moore movie Ferenheit 911.

 

I would NEVER say that my dad is stupid, but he was not born in this country and its very hard for him to distinguish a real documentary and the rubbish that Micheal Moore made.

 

My dad continued to tell me how in Iran before the ousting of the Shaw, there was alot of propaganda like this being spread by the "Revolutionaries"

 

Can you imagine our fear?? We left Iran because we hated the new government that took over after the Shaw, not just HATED but FEARED for our lives everyday!! (Are there no other persains who play this game???) My dad was worried the same would happen to this great nation. (Before we moved here he would tell us fanciful stories at bedtime, "When we get to America you will see that the streets are paved with gold, and that everyone is free to think anyways that they want. Everyone is educated, because education is free!! The people never discriminate you because you are not the same as them!!") Yes most of it was false but not because the goverment is evil, but because the people hinder the open mindedness.

 

I clarified to my dad that Michael Moore is a Left wing fanatic and that everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. I also told him that with the checks and balances system we have in the US it would be very hard for a revolution like the Irainian Revolution to happen here.

 

I will not say that I am a Republican, and I KNOW I am not a Democrat. At this point in time I dont agree with either side!

 

If my dad heard about this Micheal Crook guy he would prolly freak out!! I mean WE know how to appreciate free speech. Its the people who have never felt repression who dont understand what freedom means.

 

And the others? The ones who were repressed and now have freedom (The afganies who still wear the burka??) those people have been ingrained to HATE freedom and to believe that freedom leads to heathen behavior. Now tell me, if those people do nothing to help themselves, why should America waste its soldiers and it's money and it's time??

 

That would be the only reason I would "spew" about Iran getting "invaded"

 

(Another of my favorite saying that will stir a few feathers, plese dont keel me!!!)

 

Nuke Em All, Let Allah sort them out!!

 

*Hides under desk*

JaneMuffin

Meh another long depressing post. I am just gonna quit posting here. I love a great discussion but ths topic brings back alot of crappy old memories and I really dont think we can solve anything by sitting here and just yabbering away. I hope I have not made you all hate me because of all this political talk. I just wanna play EL and forget about RL for a few hours.

[Entropy]

So it was the Iranian students that put the clergy in there, not the American government, right?

Nice to find new things about the history...

[JaneMuffin]

So it was the Iranian students that put the clergy in there, not the American government, right?

Nice to find new things about the history...

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No NO!! The american government, namely CARTER, helped get the iatola into Iran, but without the peoples support could it have happened?

 

JaneMuffin

[Entropy]

Sure, the people helped because they didn't know what's going to happen. But the Americans engineered the whole thing, for geopolitical reasons.

[Mireille]

Sure, the people helped because they didn't know what's going to happen. But the Americans engineered the whole thing, for geopolitical reasons.

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Nope. It were students. Khomeinini used the situation where people felt completely lost after the shakh's modernisation policy. Saying that the USA caused the revolution is like saying that Germany caused the October revolution in Russia, because it didn't stop Lenin while he was coming back from Switzerland. An exaggeration.

[reciproque]

I googled around a bit to see what this Micheal Crook person is about and I agree that he seems to be not very serious and the publicy seeking type; what he has too say is quite stupid, uninteresting and hateful. He is not even attractive.

 

Only, I wonder why he was given so much importance by the medias at all. Any self respected journalist should know how to sort out undefendable crap talkings from intelligent opinions before making a buzz of it. Plus, it seems clear that Crook's views aren't even largely shared.

 

At least, seeing the number of I hate Crook sites, it's evident that there is plenty of people ready to be ferociously outraged on their cherised US's behalf if any offense is made to it, unregarding of how pointless said offenses may be.

Edited June 5, 2005 by reciproque

[JaneMuffin]

Sure, the people helped because they didn't know what's going to happen. But the Americans engineered the whole thing, for geopolitical reasons.

167566[/snapback]

 

OMG! Where you there?? I was. Right on the roof of our apartment building. And you know what I saw? Maybe I should post pictures for you. Flag burning (US flag of course) and picture burning (Shaw's picture).

 

Why is it that my older brother in the 1st grade in Iran (During the revolution) was taught the words "Death to America" and "Death to the Shaw"

 

Entropy, I totally understand that you think the US is evil for attacking Iraq, and I wont argue that point with you because I was not there. I will keep my opinions to myself regarding Iraq. But when it comes to Iran, I KNOW what happened there, and if you really want me to I can ask my mom to send me some pictures of STUDENTS burning homes of the Shaw's family and supporters.

 

I do agree that Carter had his hands under the Iatola's robes, but I dont think the protesting students love of America was the reason they demanded the Shaw be thrown out of his own country.

 

If you have any persain friends please ask them about what happened.

 

Great now I am way off topic again!

 

What did this all have to do with Michael Crook?

 

Ahh yes, a very small movement such as Michael Crook's and many other movements that have started since the begining of the war with Iraq have made the US a target for revolution.

 

I mean look how bad the country is divided when it comes to voting for president?

 

Extremist like Crook and even Michael Moore, should be censored some how. Because they can mislead the public WITHOUT facts and make it seem like they are speaking the truth.

 

Maybe they should have disclaimers on their websites/movies saying : This information was NOT based on facts and cannot be corroberated (or however you spell that word).

 

It's not really taking away their freedom of speech it's just taking away their freedom to spead false info in the guise of fact.

 

JaneMuffin

Edited June 6, 2005 by JaneMuffin

[reciproque]

 

 

Extremist like Crook and even Michael Moore, should be censored some how.  Because they can mislead the public WITHOUT facts and make it seem like they are speaking the truth.

 

Maybe they should have disclaimers on their websites/movies saying : This information was NOT based on facts and cannot be corroberated (or however you spell that word).

 

It's not really taking away their freedom of speech it's just taking away their freedom to spead false info in the guise of fact.

 

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corroborated

 

I don't know if you realise it but you are condoning censorship. Defamation and such exist if freedom of speech is used abusingly. As far as I know Moore isn't in jail yet.

Edited June 6, 2005 by reciproque

[JaneMuffin]

corroberated

 

I don't know if you realise it but you are condoning censorship. Defamation and such exist if freedom of speech is used abusingly. As far as I know Moore isn't in jail yet.

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Ty for the correct spelling (I am laaaaayyyyzy!! )

 

I dont want them censored just have a disclaimer. I really dont want them put in jail unless they do something illegal. I was hoping they would get a warning like R rated movies have.

 

Seriously, think about how many people will watch a michael moore movie or see a Michael Crook website and acctually believe them! I hope there is not many, but the sad fact is many people are better classified as sheepeople.

 

We have all been there before. We trust and respect someone and we believe them even without fact or proof.

 

Just a sutle disclaimer that warns that info contained within a form of media has not been confirmed by facts or proof would be enough for me.

 

JaneMuffin

[Entropy]

My boss and his wife are from Iran, and we often talk about geopolitics and stuff.

From what they told me, the Shah was a relatively good guy, and the country was in a good shape while he was in power.

Then the revolution happened mainly because US was afraid Iran would side with the communist Russia, so they planed to prevent that by plcing a deeply religious government, which would oppose that.

[Aislinn]

Extremist like Crook and even Michael Moore, should be censored some how.  Because they can mislead the public WITHOUT facts and make it seem like they are speaking the truth.

JaneMuffin

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Hmm kinda like the Bush administration.

[Daxon]

I'd rather have Bush than a guy who flips more than a burger.

 

Also, why did the topic get stretched into Iran's policies and whatnot? I thought the topic was about Crook.

Edited June 7, 2005 by Daxon

[Entropy]

I'd rather have Bush than a guy who flips more than a burger.

 

Bush flip flops like the clock in my PC (every 66Mhz).

Remember the: "I will not engage in nation building" thingy?

[Daxon]

Bush flip flops like the clock in my PC (every 66Mhz).

Remember the: "I will not engage in nation building" thingy?

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Get a new clock not made by "Kerry & Co."

[JaneMuffin]

My boss and his wife are from Iran, and we often talk about geopolitics and stuff.

From what they told me, the Shah was a relatively good guy, and the country was in a good shape while he was in power.

Then the revolution happened mainly because US was afraid Iran would side with the communist Russia, so they planed to prevent that by plcing a deeply religious government, which would oppose that.

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Yes this was a "plot" of the Carter administration. I will agree with you on that. But I also think you should ask your boss and his wife about the brainwashing that was going on inside the Iranian borders from the Anti-Shah "rebels".

 

Ultimately it was the people of Iran who allowed the new government to take over.

 

Hmm kinda like the Bush administration.

 

If you believe that they too are lying then yes I think even the Bush administration should be FORCED to either provide facts or be FORCED to have a disclaimer saying their statements are not based on facts.

 

Seriously I think this would solve alot of problems in this country.

 

 

Also, why did the topic get stretched into Iran's policies and whatnot? I thought the topic was about Crook.

 

Dax, I realized I went off topic but I also pointed out in a previous post that people like Crook hurt this country with their "free speech" by tricking the ignorant.

 

I believe that the people of Iran were tricked into a revolution. In my opinion Iran was a great place BEFORE the Iatola took over.

 

Bush may have alot of problems and America may not be perfect but would it be better if it turned into a place like Iran?

 

I would rather have Bush for president over the iatola anyday. Acctually other than Tony Blair (and mainly for his cute accent ) I dont know of any other leader who would be good for this country atm.

 

Ohhh!! Although!! I did hear a rumor about Valdimir Putin burying terrorists from that theater in pig skin!! I thought that was brilliant! (I am gonna google this later and post if its true)

 

Hip Hip Hooray!

 

Three cheers for the man with enough guts to finally stand up to the terrorist and pull dirty tricks right back on them!!

 

Ack! Back off topic again!

 

Ohhh I wonder if we can petition to have Crooks body used as a human dart board (after he passes away from natural causes of course, I am no murderer!)

 

*Really hides this time*

JaneMuffin

[Mireille]

Ohhh!! Although!!  I did hear a rumor about Valdimir Putin burying terrorists from that theater in pig skin!!  I thought that was brilliant! (I am gonna google this later and post if its true)

 

Hip Hip Hooray!

 

Three cheers for the man with enough guts to finally stand up to the terrorist and pull dirty tricks right back on them!!

 

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Putin's Soviet Union err, Russia, is a more dangerous threat to the world peace than a thousand Bin Ladens. Pity the West is too blind to see it.

Edited June 7, 2005 by Mireille