Crafter's Strike

[LadyWolf]

Well, MrMind said he wants to be like walmart. Walmart is what has put the little guy out of business IRL. Except in game, we can't draw unemployment when our jobs get taken away from us.

 

There are alot of bots in game (or were before update), but the two that seem to hurt most are Richery and Charn. Adarah, Nera,MadameYes and Vendor all still held to the same prices. Richery and Charn however, seem to be trying to undercut all the others to soak up all the gold for their guilds, thus hurting those of us that don't rely on a bot to sell for us. I for one refuse to sell to them at the low price they offer for items.

 

Arnieman is right, when the alchemists went on strike the prices did go back up, but they are on the fall again.

 

DrMabuse, I have complained til I am blue in the face, and I know we need to try to stabalize the market, so you have my support.

[bkc56]

Reading through this is very interesting, especially some of the historical information.

 

When I first started playing this game (a few months ago) I didn't know what I wanted to do. My running joke was: I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. I still don't. As a result, I've tended to work on most all the skills. As a result I have turned into a generalist. Personally, I prefer to think of myself as a self-sufficient player, being able to make most everything I need (except some of the better armor/weapons, but a few hours of TI mining allows me to buy any of that stuff too).

 

And what have I learned along the way? Exactly what's being talked about here. With a few exceptions (like HE's and ME's) most stuff does not sell for enough to be worth making in bulk. But you have to make stuff in bulk to level up. The result is to either fire-sale them to other players (depressing the market) or sell to the NPC's. I've sold multiple K of leather pants to Trix.

 

I was forced to become self-sufficient because I simply couldn't afford to buy everything I needed to make stuff (since the resulting item often doesn't sell for enough to cover those costs). Manufacturing and Crafting are still expensive because of the things you are forced to buy since you can't make them (thread, leather, sanders, etc). So I make everything from scratch and use TI mining/selling to fund the stuff I need to purchase. Some stuff I use myself (HE, ME, SR, BR, rings, etc). Some stuff I sell at a loss just to try and recover part of the investment (leather pants). And some stuff I just hang on to not knowing what to do with (polished jems).

 

And the result of all this? I'll probably never be really good at any one skill. It takes to much time to make everything from scratch (harvest tons of stuff, make FE and WE, make bars, make rings, make polished jems, and finally make a magic ring). And it costs to much to buy pre-made items (like raw rings) to make stuff (like magic rings) since you can't sell them for enough to cover costs.

 

I really think the fundamental issue (I won't call it a "problem") is that people have to make so much stuff to level up that there is simply more supply than demand could ever make use of. This generally forces prices down to about what the NPCs will pay (it's much easier to sell 100 leather pants to Trix for 50 per than to try and find any buyers at even 60 per).

 

I only see two ways to fix this. Reduce the supply (require less to be made) or support the price (by increasing the price that NPC's buy for). Since the whole game is based on making 100s or 1000's of items to level up, you can't change that wihout fundamentally changing the way the game works. One idea would be to give experience for even failed attempts, and then drastically increase the failure rate. You could make 1000's for the experience, but only end up with 100's to sell. But that really throws off the cost to make stuff. And increasing NPC prices is just like when the Government supports low crop prices (and we all know how well artificial price support works).

 

Thus endeth my long rambling reply that doens't really provide any solutions. Thanks for reading.

[Entropy]

Actually, I found a very good way to solve this problem, but you guys will bitch a lot. Nevertheless, I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

 

So here is my solution (until the new manufacturing system comes up, which is months away).

High cooldown values for food. That means, it will take like minutes before being able to eat again. No food, no manufacturing, no harvesting.

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Is this ok with you?

[Ghrae]

Wow... I acutally like that idea.

 

One question: I know from time to time we have problems with macroers. Would this make it harder to catch them? Easier for them?

[Entropy]

Oh, soon we won't have a problem with macroers anymore.

[Guest Enyo]

I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

202880[/snapback]

my fav line of the day ..

[LadyWolf]

Actually, I found a very good way to solve this problem, but you guys will bitch a lot. Nevertheless, I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

 

So here is my solution (until the new manufacturing system comes up, which is months away).

High cooldown values for food. That means, it will take like minutes before being able to eat again. No food, no manufacturing, no harvesting.

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Is this ok with you?

 

Teh God has spoken -_-

 

Works for me, cuts down on all the over-production that is killing the market.

 

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Will this include all trades like crafting,alchemy, and potion making? or just harvesting and manuing?

Edited September 29, 2005 by LadyWolf

[Kendai]

What about those with a -30 food level? As far as I know, only potions of feasting will bring the food level back up to a positive level. And speaking of those, will potions of feasting be affected the same way as food? Newbies may have a problem with this as well, since they start off with a food level of zero and by the time they figure out how to eat, their food level is often at 30, and by that time, they have probably discovered how much a simple brown rabbit can hurt...

 

Not that I'm going against the idea, I kinda like it. Everything has to be taken into consideration though ^_^;

 

edited for grammar

 

Oh, and another thing: between cooldowns of food, you'll still be able to do other things, correct? ^_^;;;

Edited September 29, 2005 by Kendai

[shenriss]

Actually, I found a very good way to solve this problem, but you guys will bitch a lot. Nevertheless, I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

 

So here is my solution (until the new manufacturing system comes up, which is months away).

High cooldown values for food. That means, it will take like minutes before being able to eat again. No food, no manufacturing, no harvesting.

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Is this ok with you?

202880[/snapback]

 

for me it's a really good idea if it same for all skills

 

edit: don't forget who took power angry

 

edit2 : it ever took hours for crafting if you do all, in this case will only make stuff for myself like i do ever, won't spend more time in craft that i do, will see.

Edited September 29, 2005 by shenriss

[Guest Enyo]

edit: don't forget who took power angry

202901[/snapback]

 

OMG!! i just reset and took power hungry again!!!!!!!!!!!!! merde

 

what if we had to have positive food to even train on monsters??? omfg

[shenriss]

OMG!!  i just reset and took power hungry again!!!!!!!!!!!!!  merde

 

what if we had to have positive food to even train on monsters??? omfg

202906[/snapback]

 

i' dont

[Mr.Mind]

Prices will continue to drop until game changes are made. Resistance is futile.

[shenriss]

Prices will continue to drop until game changes are made.  Resistance is futile.

202908[/snapback]

isn't your bot sell craft stuff at really low price, is it?

[DrMabuse]

Actually, I found a very good way to solve this problem, but you guys will bitch a lot. Nevertheless, I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

 

So here is my solution (until the new manufacturing system comes up, which is months away).

High cooldown values for food. That means, it will take like minutes before being able to eat again. No food, no manufacturing, no harvesting.

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Is this ok with you?

202880[/snapback]

 

another solution could be that you can only manu/craft things with the recommended level.

see: spell casting. you can only cast "restoration" if you have magic level 21.

i.e. you can only craft dis rings if you have level 27 (recommended level)

 

in this case, players who want to start with crafting/manu must do the new quests to gain the "base" experince.

 

Prices will continue to drop until game changes are made.  Resistance is futile.

202908[/snapback]

 

In this case, there should be a bot role like "no price undercutting bots are allowed".

Edited September 29, 2005 by DrMabuse

[Creepin_Death]

I think Entropy's idea would help. As long as we are still able to lvl in the same amount of time having less products made would help all markets. Lower supplies which rasies demands.

[LadyWolf]

QUOTE(Mr.Mind @ Sep 29 2005, 09:50 PM)

Prices will continue to drop until game changes are made. Resistance is futile.

 

In this case, there should be a bot role like "no price undercutting bots are allowed".

 

I agree with DrMabuse on this. Ent's fix could work, as well as what the good Dr suggested, but then you have to stop the damn bots from lowering prices again and undermining the changes. MrMind doesn't care, he's out to destroy the market. It's a petty game he's playing, and only a set price cap will stop him.

[Nikor]

Well, actually I kinda like the idea, but this way it doesn't seem to be balanced right. Right now, I'm sitting in the mines to make HE. I can make 400 of them and that takes about 180 fruit. It takes about 20-30 minutes to make them all. If I could eat only once in a minute, this would take me 3 hours, which would be more than boring. And I don't think we really have a problem with HE, they are made by the thousands and used by the thousands.

 

Wouldn't it be better to have high cooldown values on tools like hammers? The rings could be changed to require some sort of jewelry hammer to be in the inventory. So each item category could be adjusted by itself and wouldn't have any side effects on others.

[LadyWolf]

Hmmm..good point Nikor, ess and pots take forever as it is..maybe (if it's not too complicated in coding) it could only apply to crafting and manu.

[Arnieman]

Actually, I found a very good way to solve this problem, but you guys will bitch a lot. Nevertheless, I will still do it, just for the sake of hearing you bitching

 

So here is my solution (until the new manufacturing system comes up, which is months away).

High cooldown values for food. That means, it will take like minutes before being able to eat again. No food, no manufacturing, no harvesting.

The exp for harvesting and manufacturing will, however, be increased 2 or 3 times, so people will manufacture less but get the same exp.

 

Is this ok with you?

202880[/snapback]

bitch bitch bitch...

 

Actually, despite some initial apprehension, the way you put it sounds good - though I like the idea someone fronted about the tool having a cool down rate to it.

 

Just a thought - if tools had a cooldown rate, what if it were possible to make with the cooling tool, but you'd lose the tool to breakage?

[WizzKidd]

I also am not a crafter but manufacturer. I have long complained about the pricing of manu items, so I know how you all must feel.

 

Therefore, I (and many in my guild IRON) support this strike. Also, Charn will not carry any rings or meds untill further notice...

[Nikor]

Hmmm..good point Nikor, ess and pots take forever as it is..maybe (if it's not too complicated in coding) it could only apply to crafting and manu.

202935[/snapback]

 

Well, that's why I thought of the tools to have the cooldown. The coding shouldn't be too different, as I understand it.

 

And yeah, with pots we don't have a problem either. Sometimes, when ppl get really desparate, you can even sell for more than the NPC price, since they wouldn't have to take them to storage like 30 at a time and/or got antisocial.

[gadai]

Like Nikor's tool cooldown idea - if the tool was not removable (that it remained the default tool during it's cooldown period) this would prevent people tool switching or switching to a different product as well.

 

As a minor point in response to LadyWolf (and I'm sure others) - Richery was set to buy at a certain price point, well below market rate. In all less then 100 diss rings and 500 location rings were sold to Richery by RICH guild members, yet in his brief time trading (less then three weeks) he had a turnover of more then 3.5k rings. Before blaming RICH guild or even MrMind I suggest having a pop at whatever mass crafters sold to him. Considering 2000 of those rings were Diss rings I would suspect that at least one of the sellers is in the top 50 crafters. Walmart can't operate without it's suppliers - neither could Richery. In the end the top level players in Craft and Manu control the market by the simple fact that they create the most 'high value' items. If they artificially reduce the supply of goods to the market from them the prices inevitably rise (or so my basic grasp of economics would suggest). Meh - in the end Richery is offline, the market hasn't risen (as your price cutting bots theory would suggest) and a solution is coming, be it in the form of food or, preferably, tool cooldown periods. The future is coming

[Nikor]

Like Nikor's tool cooldown idea - if the tool was not removable (that it remained the default tool during it's cooldown period) this would prevent people tool switching or switching to a different product as well.

202942[/snapback]

 

I don't think that would matter much, since this would involve a lot of clicking to get the ingredients of another product into the manu window. And you would only be able to 2 - 3 different kinds of products at the same time anyway.

[DrMabuse]

I also am not a crafter but manufacturer.  I have long complained about the pricing of manu items, so I know how you all must feel.

 

Therefore, I (and many in my guild IRON) support this strike.  Also, Charn will not carry any rings or meds untill further notice...

202938[/snapback]

 

Thanks for joining.

 

...

In all less then 100 diss rings and 500 location rings were sold to Richery by RICH guild members, yet in his brief time trading (less then three weeks) he had a turnover of more then 3.5k rings.

....

I am not selling/buying from bots, but i know the problem that some bots buy unlimited amount of items. In my opinion the botowner/programmer did not "protect" the bot by setting buy limits (for example: bot buys only 50 dis rings per day. And if the bot has still it's 50 dis rings, the bot buys nothing). Are bots dumping grounds for alch'ed, manu'ed or craft'ed items?

 

...

Considering 2000 of those rings were Diss rings I would suspect that at least one of the sellers is in the top 50 crafters.

....

Not me, I'm not selling/buying from bots. I prefer to sell direct to player. For example,if a buyer is in VOTD, i go extra to VOTD and sell my rings. This is called service.

 

...

In the end the top level players in Craft and Manu control the market by the simple fact that they create the most 'high value' items.

....

 

Not me, I make always a mixture of teleport rings and dis rings + medallions.

Edited September 30, 2005 by DrMabuse

[TheDoctor]

This stike is going to fail: MrMind sells diss/damage rings at 70 gc, telleport rings at 65, and medallions at 150. Those are the cheapest prices in the game. He is well advertised, and Everyone will just go to him.