New critical damage

[hussam]

won't we keep needing to raise NPC price again every time ingredient prices go up?

Well, yeah.

Inflation is happening in-game... why do only the players adjust their prices and not the NPC's?

In RL when inflation happens everyone adjusts their prices, there's not some special group of people who forever charge what they originally did.

This isn't real life. This is a game.

In real life if you actually get damage from a sword, it always means your armor has degraded. Should that apply to EL too?

Mods can see my logs. If it weren't for harvesting and polished saphires, I couldn't possibly be able to replace armor.

[korrode]

won't we keep needing to raise NPC price again every time ingredient prices go up?

Well, yeah.

Inflation is happening in-game... why do only the players adjust their prices and not the NPC's?

In RL when inflation happens everyone adjusts their prices, there's not some special group of people who forever charge what they originally did.

This isn't real life. This is a game.

Yes but an economy simple won't work unless principles from working economies are applied.

Remember that the production system in EL differs much from other RPG's where NPC's (incl. quests) ARE the intentional only way for people to get most equipment.

 

Real life parallel or not, the NPC's should adjust their prices now and then due to inflation effects. If they don't, mixers will eventually be written off with the only exceptions being items that can't be obtained from NPC's.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Korrode

[groomsh]

In real life if you actually get damage from a sword, it always means your armor has degraded. Should that apply to EL too?

It could, but server does not have unique instances of items - this would be a major change in the system.

 

Also the price of armors/weapons has gone up mainly because of the price of rare ingreds, which are used much more nowadays.

This is because a lot of new recipes that require them were introduced and also a lot of people leveled up into the area

where they need (and break) high end gear.

 

On topic: I hope that the new "more fair" formula will not make mixers break more armors (because obviously we fight a lot less and so break a lot less stuff)

[Entropy]

Nope, the formula doesn't affect the mixing failure rate.

[groomsh]

Nope, the formula doesn't affect the mixing failure rate.

I mean not the mixing, but when i as a mixer wear armors and go fighting mobs (what i do rarely) that i'll have higher chance to break gear then hardcore a/d trainers.

[nathanstenzel]

I also mix/harvest/afk alot and then only fight a little bit.

[hussam]

won't we keep needing to raise NPC price again every time ingredient prices go up?

Well, yeah.

Inflation is happening in-game... why do only the players adjust their prices and not the NPC's?

In RL when inflation happens everyone adjusts their prices, there's not some special group of people who forever charge what they originally did.

This isn't real life. This is a game.

Yes but an economy simple won't work unless principles from working economies are applied.

Remember that the production system in EL differs much from other RPG's where NPC's (incl. quests) ARE the intentional only way for people to get most equipment.

 

Real life parallel or not, the NPC's should adjust their prices now and then due to inflation effects. If they don't, mixers will eventually be written off with the only exceptions being items that can't be obtained from NPC's.

There should also be an advantage to people who didn't take antisocial perk. NPC sells HE at 9gcs each. But antisocial people buy it for more from mixers. Same thing for swords.

[forever]

What antisocial person buys HE for over 9gc per Hussam?

 

You are talking out of your head now.

[hussam]

What antisocial person buys HE for over 9gc per Hussam?

 

You are talking out of your head now.

Some bots are selling at 10 according to http://bots.el-services.net/search.php

But ok fine, that's a bad example.

[korrode]

Anti people will always have non-anti friends or offer some gc for non-anti people to buy for them. once prices inflate to past NPC price+fee, mixers will have no business anyway.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Korrode

[forever]

Yes Korrode speaks the truth.

 

When people inflate their prices to over NPC price and then complain about the GC it's their own fault.

 

Hell if people actually wanted to buy my HE at 11 per, I'd get them 10-20k a day easy simply by grabbing my mule a friend and muling away. No mixing needed =D.

[chr0nik]

Since the most recent crit damage / break formula update on December 8, I've trained a total of 72 mchim. The market price for HE/SR usage was 2294gc. Total drop value from the mchim was 4484gc. I degraded my bronze greave today on my 3rd mchim. I replaced them for 35000gc. I'll need to train a little over 1k mchim w/o any breaks now just to break even.

 

This isn't a whine post either, rather an observation. I'm a mixer as well so it's not a bfd to me, just slightly annoying.

 

 

[ZootNerper]

Hi,

 

I don't know if the "adjustment" has been "adjusted" further with server "restarts", but I have degraded two ti shields (one on the ridiculous Haidir Yeti), broken two MOLs and one Gatherer Med in the last three weeks. Seems a bit much to me compared to before. I trained a lot before and after this great idea was introduced, it's worse now

 

I'd start mixing/harv'ing/anything but still have to train for Haidir.

 

-- Zoot

[Dilly]

Yes Korrode speaks the truth.

 

When people inflate their prices to over NPC price and then complain about the GC it's their own fault.

 

Hell if people actually wanted to buy my HE at 11 per, I'd get them 10-20k a day easy simply by grabbing my mule a friend and muling away. No mixing needed =D.

 

 

just to set this straight, check this thread

 

In it, you will see that people actually quite eagerly go over the NPC price, this isn´t the first thread in it´s kind either.

[ZootNerper]

Another Ti shield degraded. Great training detterrant let alone afk training.

 

Keep up the good work

 

-- Zoot

[forever]

Yes Korrode speaks the truth.

 

When people inflate their prices to over NPC price and then complain about the GC it's their own fault.

 

Hell if people actually wanted to buy my HE at 11 per, I'd get them 10-20k a day easy simply by grabbing my mule a friend and muling away. No mixing needed =D.

 

 

just to set this straight, check this thread

 

In it, you will see that people actually quite eagerly go over the NPC price, this isn´t the first thread in it´s kind either.

 

This is true. However the crucial factor here, is it's an auction. Of course people are willing to go over price when there are so few people selling and for the fact that most people are lazy and don't haul ya ya.

 

Of course people wouldn't go so high if it weren't for the fact that it's a larger bulk of an item.

 

 

 

@ Zoot

 

Wtf are you training? I've had some good luck with armor breakages and from what I can tell everyone else is having a much easier time.

 

Also... are you using nmt?

Edited December 30, 2010 by forever

[ZootNerper]

I'm training DCW and FCW (latter today). I use an NMT. No weapon.

 

-- Zoot

[Elgoran]

Hi,

 

i read the thread and think i got a rough picture of the whole issue now. There's one last thing though i don't completely understand:

 

Toughness still plays (and will play) the most important role in armor breaks. Except, of course, for the attributes that cause you not to get hit in the first place.

I read this as a higher toughness lessening the breakrate.

 

...and if the armor doesn't absorb all the damage you will have a higher than now, but lower than those whose armor absorbs all the damage.

I read this as a higher toughness increasing the breakrate, since a higher toughness will improve the chance of your armor absorbing the rest of the damage.

 

So did i get this right and toughness now has an ambiguous role towards the breakrate? I know us players won't get to know the whole formula, but i'd really appreciate a little hint regarding character build.

Best regards,

 

 

Elgoran.

[korrode]

...and if the armor doesn't absorb all the damage you will have a higher than now, but lower than those whose armor absorbs all the damage.

I read this as a higher toughness increasing the breakrate

Ummm how did you read that as higher toughness increasing the break chance?

Radu said if you absorb all damage the chance will be lower, this toughness will decrease break chances.

[Elgoran]

...but lower than those whose armor absorbs all the damage.

 

So i read that as people whose armor absorbs all the damage have a higher breakrate than people whose armor doesn't.

If you have a high toughness, the chance of your armor absorbing all the leftover damage'll be higher, no?

 

To some extent, but much less drastic, that'd be also true for the armorbreaker perk. You get +1 armor, also increasing your armor's chance

to not let any damage get to you.

[korrode]

Ok I see what you mean now, but i can assure you radu means when all damage is absorbed the chance is lower, not when it's specifically armor bonus (rather than toughness) doing (most of) the absorbing.

[nathanstenzel]

I guess there is a question as to which comes first, the armor subtracting damage or your toughness subtracting damage or if both happen at the same time if Elgoran's thinking is right.

Edited January 11, 2011 by nathanstenzel

[Entropy]

Toughness subtracts damage first.

[korrode]

I guess there is a question as to which comes first, the armor subtracting damage or your toughness subtracting damage or if both happen at the same time if Elgoran's thinking is right.

It was never a question for me because I did hours of testing with radu on the test server where he explained a lot about how the system works.

[ZootNerper]

Nothing to do with toughness, but then this is about criticals.

 

Degraded a COL today on FCW. Been a couple of weeks since I last posted, guess I've been lucky.

 

== Zoot