Total War Revival

[korrode]

Hows about; when a person dies to another player when they are on a non-pk map (which can only happen with total war), they dont lose items...

 

Then none of this would be needed, i'd goto total war with plenty of guilds right now.

 

I know some people are big fans of a big penalty for dying (i'm not, and highly enjoy the 24/7 PK action in the other MMO i play where u dont lose anything when u die), but think of the fun people!

[bkc56]

Hows about; when a person dies to another player when they are on a non-pk map (which can only happen with total war), they dont lose items...

That would require server support/changes.

 

The beauty of this solution (using bots as the guild owners) is that it takes no server/client changes. We already know how to program a bot to manage guilds (accept/kick people, etc) and this could be setup immediately (assuming the gc to make the guilds, and dollars for bot hosting).

[masterpiter]

I know some people are big fans of a big penalty for dying

I know 1 such person, but i wont tell here his name, its no1 from top50

 

And here some quoute of a relatively new/newbie player from this topic:

Lost a few dbs and pki myself :> but who cares it was great. And my nooby leathers were always returned! hehe

 

As u see, he likes it coz its cheap to fight( no need to spend big money on gear that can break or be broded) and cheap to die( no rostos needed), those r 2 basic conditions for low/mid lvl ppl to have fun with pking.

If low/mid lvls wont be pking -high lvls wont be pking too coz there will be no1 to pk, except those others few high lvls.

 

mp

[korrode]

Yeah but I'm rank 34 PK score and rising... I dont want to plummet into the 100's in a week cause im in PK with leathers/ti long/no CoL...

 

For anyone who cares about their PK score it's not an option.

 

I do PK often within the current system, i'm just saying i would PK more, and i believe a lot more people would PK more if they didnt drop items when they die...

 

Llyn, who doesn't PK at all, even said to me when we were talking about this earlier that she would probably PK if there was no risk of items/rosto loss... i'm sure lots more people would PK if that was the case.

 

But w/e i'm arguing for a pointless cause here i know.

[conavar]

I do PK often within the current system, i'm just saying i would PK more, and i believe a lot more people would PK more if they didnt drop items when they die...

 

Llyn, who doesn't PK at all, even said to me when we were talking about this earlier that she would probably PK if there was no risk of items/rosto loss... i'm sure lots more people would PK if that was the case.

 

But w/e i'm arguing for a pointless cause here i know.

 

Sadly unless we come up with another item that pays for Radu's bricks on a regular basis,then yes it is pointless

[Ambrosius]

Still its already harder to loose items with the attribute cap...fight last ages now compared to before...a lot more time to diss / flee now etc.

 

Ive been in total war in the past and that was good fun. Only thing that annoyed me now and then was not being able to train in those 3 hours war time without looking over your shoulder constantly. With this system that would be solved...you can just leave guild using the total war guild bot when you want to train in peace. Only thing that should be looked at is preventing unbalanced teams.

Ppl quickly leaving guild when they are about to get attacked could cause a problem aswell.

[ville-v]

Still its already harder to loose items with the attribute cap...fight last ages now compared to before...a lot more time to diss / flee now etc.

In a couple of years we might be in Tibia-stage, where people die mostly because of lag and enemies launch DDoS attacks against each other to get some frags.

[daiske1]

i really hope they add this cause this is a GREAT idea

[peino]

ninja/assassin type tactics, etc

hmmmm, what would be that? something like drop 300 caltrops around your enemy?

Yeah, something like that.

 

 

Yeah but I'm rank 34 PK score and rising... I dont want to plummet into the 100's in a week cause im in PK with leathers/ti long/no CoL...

 

For anyone who cares about their PK score it's not an option.

 

I do PK often within the current system, i'm just saying i would PK more, and i believe a lot more people would PK more if they didnt drop items when they die...

 

Llyn, who doesn't PK at all, even said to me when we were talking about this earlier that she would probably PK if there was no risk of items/rosto loss... i'm sure lots more people would PK if that was the case./b]

 

But w/e i'm arguing for a pointless cause here i know.

Weird, because I'm the exact opposite. One of the 3 reasons I never took up PK in EL is the lose-stuff-aphobia that affects so many people. To me, PK/PvP is like gambling -- you step up to the game, lay your goods on the line, and roll the dice. Winner take all. You don't play with what you can't afford to lose. I wouldn't go into a casino, put a 10K, 20K, 100K chip on the blackjack table, lose, and still expect to walk out with that same chip in my hand. In my head, it's the same thing with armor and weapons. That's why I never carry rostos. (The reason I never wear good gear is because I don't have the nexus for them yet.)

 

The thing I find most disappointing about Total War is that you get no exp for fighting in a non-PK map. I think we should get exp - at least half exp. I was hoping that I could use Total War to set up a "dueling society" -- a different kind of PK, more like lethal PvP -- call-outs between evenly matched opponents, 1v1, to the death, no rostos, no hard feelings because it's a kind of gambling. Using Total War among otherwise friendly guilds would mean that outsiders (i.e. TS'd DPA campers) wouldnt be able to interfere with the game. But everything in EL's PK system seems set up to make that pointless as well. The point system doesn't seem to help it, and the exp situation means it would add nothing to leveling. No way to sell people on the idea (I think there might be as many as 7 people on the whole internet who would be into it ). Frustrating.

[Shujral]

Using Total War among otherwise friendly guilds would mean that outsiders (i.e. TS'd DPA campers) wouldnt be able to interfere with the game.

 

 

What exactly is your point here?

 

call-outs between evenly matched opponents, 1v1, to the death, no rostos, no hard feelings because it's a kind of gambling.

 

An interesting idea, but I think you'll have trouble finding many people as light-hearted as you to participate...

Edited February 24, 2008 by Shujral

[masterpiter]

free and safe xp from pvp

[Quimbly]

For the ones that wanted a rp storyline, the team masters will be Mercy representing Aluwen and Nightmare representing Mortos. As happenstance should be, these chars were already in existance and was donated by Lang_Ren/Moro. Thanks Lang. Guild long and short names still to be decided.

 

free and safe xp from pvp

 

dont understand what this pertains to as total war or not, only PK maps give XP for pvp.

[peino]

Using Total War among otherwise friendly guilds would mean that outsiders (i.e. TS'd DPA campers) wouldnt be able to interfere with the game.

 

 

What exactly is your point here?

Defensive much? We already argued this partially in game pm (and thanks for interrupting my training ) but just to be thorough:

 

- TS'd DPA campers typically have way better p/c and gear than other fighters there.

 

- Arenas are considered "open PK" maps where it's OK to attack anyone without warning.

 

- TS'd DPA campers often attack people way weaker than them, making for uneven fights, and many PKers do not respect calls for private fights, since they don't technically have to in a PK area.

 

- If even level fighting is needed for dueling, then DPA campers would likely make that hard/impossible to play and keep clear score among the duelists (especially when there are some players who like to screw with other people's fights by casting harm from the sidelines).

 

I don't think you can deny any of those assertions about how PK is played at DPA, and DPA is just a mini version of all of EL PK, so obviously, my idea can't exist in an EL PK zone. They're just not compatible. The only way for my style to exist in the same world as the current style would be in secret (sneaking around for free arenas) or by using Total War to build a club.

 

call-outs between evenly matched opponents, 1v1, to the death, no rostos, no hard feelings because it's a kind of gambling.

 

An interesting idea, but I think you'll have trouble finding many people as light-hearted as you to participate...

True. I have no idea why, though. As PKers keep saying, it's only a game.

 

 

For the ones that wanted a rp storyline, the team masters will be Mercy representing Aluwen and Nightmare representing Mortos. As happenstance should be, these chars were already in existance and was donated by Lang_Ren/Moro. Thanks Lang. Guild long and short names still to be decided.

Yay. And kudos to Lang for her generosity.

[ville-v]

dont understand what this pertains to as total war or not, only PK maps give XP for pvp.

train at dp arena, you can attack because of total war and get exp because of pk area, and that should be safe if you have high enough a/d (i don't know if it still works though)

[Sir_Exeus]

Not to bring up old threads but perhaps we need a update about this? Is it still in motion or is the fire out? Perhaps somthing in gen chat would help, idk....

 

Just wondering

[Learner]

Not to bring up old threads but perhaps we need a update about this? Is it still in motion or is the fire out? Perhaps somthing in gen chat would help, idk....

 

Just wondering

Still in motion, I'm working on the coding changes needed to support this.

[sywren]

Not to bring up old threads but perhaps we need a update about this? Is it still in motion or is the fire out? Perhaps somthing in gen chat would help, idk....

 

Just wondering

Still in motion, I'm working on the coding changes needed to support this.

 

 

Yay!

 

The biggest issue seems to be potential for vastly unequal teams. Thought: is it possible for the guild bots to keep a tally of either the total combat levels or pk scores of all the members and share with each other? If one guild reaches a certain percentage above the other, it could reject new high level members and advise them to join the other team.

 

This might help with social interactions since team members may be forced to occasionally switch up which team they join.

 

Personally I'd like to see it based on pk scores so those of us who are new could still join either team since we're pretty ineffectual against the pr0s, and those are the ones who are going to throw off the balance.

[Learner]

Not to bring up old threads but perhaps we need a update about this? Is it still in motion or is the fire out? Perhaps somthing in gen chat would help, idk....

 

Just wondering

Still in motion, I'm working on the coding changes needed to support this.

 

 

Yay!

 

The biggest issue seems to be potential for vastly unequal teams. Thought: is it possible for the guild bots to keep a tally of either the total combat levels or pk scores of all the members and share with each other? If one guild reaches a certain percentage above the other, it could reject new high level members and advise them to join the other team.

 

This might help with social interactions since team members may be forced to occasionally switch up which team they join.

 

Personally I'd like to see it based on pk scores so those of us who are new could still join either team since we're pretty ineffectual against the pr0s, and those are the ones who are going to throw off the balance.

Initial versions won't do any balancing like that, it will be up to the players to try to keep it balanced f thats what they want.

[Learner]

Current list of bot commands being developed and tested ($$$ means it will cost gc and is done during a Trade)

 

GUILD - List the members in that bots guild (you have to PM each bot to get it's build members)

JOIN - $$$ - Join the guild the bot is a member of

RANK5 - $$$ - Get promoted to rank 5 so you can #GM

RANK10 - $$$ - Get promoted to rank 10 so you can #GM and #IG

LEAVE - $$$ - Get kicked out of the build so you can join a different one

 

Currently this mens if you want to join the guild and be able to use #GM, you have to buy two different options (JOIN & RANK5), but you can do that in a single trade.

 

I'm open for other suggestions on these commands/options. They are part of that bots HELP command.

[Kaddy]

Initial versions won't do any balancing like that, it will be up to the players to try to keep it balanced f thats what they want.

 

 

Well i dont think it will be balanced so but its kinda sound fun

 

Good job learner!

[peino]

Two part question:

 

1- Will other guilds be able to declare Total War on either/both of these Total War guilds?

 

2- What happens if every single member of a guild wants to join the Total War? Iow, what happens to a guild if every member leaves it?

 

For example: Let's say there's a PK guild called Danger Junkies (*DJ*) that has 5 members. Every member of *DJ*, including the GM, wants to fight in the Total War, against the Aluwen side because they really want to go after some of the players on the Aluwen team.

 

-- Do all members have to quit *DJ* to join the Mortos team? If so, then obviously, when they're done with the Total War, no one will be left in *DJ* to accept them so they can rejoin, so I guess *DJ* is basically dead, even though it wasn't officially "destroyed". When the 5 PKers leave the Total War, they'll have to pay 30Kgc to build a new *DJ* guild again. Right?

 

-- OR can *DJ* guild contact the Aluwen team bot to request Total War with its guild, and the Mortos team bot to request allies with that guild (both for gc fees), and join the war that way, while keeping their guild intact?

 

I'm wondering because I'm a 1-person guild, and I'd rather not have to lose my tag and pay 30Kgc to get it back to be able to participate in this (and the only people in EL I trust enough to mind ~E~ while I'm at war, either hate guilds and won't do it, or are in guilds or will be participating in the Total War too and can't do it).

[Aislinn]

2- What happens if every single member of a guild wants to join the Total War? Iow, what happens to a guild if every member leaves it?

I thought the only way a gm (rank 20) can "leave" a guild is to either destroy it or give it to somebody else first (thereby automatically receiving rank 19 then being able to leave it), although I'm not 100% positive on that, or have had that question ever come up before, or for that matter ever seen anybody attempt it. Edit: confirmed by Learner that a rank 20 cannot leave a guild, he/she must destroy it.

 

Another thing you could consider is having a bot be your gm, there are several guilds who do that for exactly the reason you state. It is coded to accept and kick members from the guild for pvp purposes so that all guild members can be accepted or kicked even if the higher ranked members are not online to do it for them. This would solve your concerns as well I think.

[trollson]

Quick thoughts on this, while waiting for things to build [3]:

 

Unbalanced Guilds:

It has been discussed that players may migrate towards the stronger of the guilds, resulting on one group dominating. There are ways around this:

1. With 3+ sides, the weaker ally against the stronger.
   
   
2. The cost of joining a guild depends on its relative strength.
   
   

So rather than have a permanent state of mutual warfare, the relations shift between allied/peace/war, so long as each WarParty is at war with at least one other

[1]

.

 

You need to come up with a reasonable metric for

"strength"

. A sum across participants, possibly of PK Points, which can go down as well as up, even with a fixed population.

Roleplay Aspect:

It would be a shame if this ends up disconnected from the background of the game world.

 

The Warlords (GM 'Bots) should represent something in the game world -- place them in different seats of power (castles, forts, etc) throughout the land, weave them in as personalities.

 

So you have to walk across a few maps to sign up... how lazy are folk now?

Camping Out the Warlord:

Something to discourage one side from camping out near the GM of another side, and smegging or scaring off new recruits?

 

Make the GM'bots similar to blessed Guardbots, able to move within their "HQ" area and free to attack members of an enemy guild. Unlike Guildmap Guardbots, they are not 'red flagged' of course, so cannot attack anyone.

 

Actually, attacking and killing the GM'bot would be possiblity as it stands, unless they remain pacifist; but who'd follow a Warlord like that?

Guild Ranks

Can you make some use of guild ranks. While there are limits -- members can never recruit or promote for instance -- some 'promotion' for long-serving participants would be good, though what practical implications could there be?

 

I didn't notice Learner's rank commands -- so ranks are buyable.

 

[1] All rather "1984" ... the goal is not to win the war but to continue it.

[2]

[3] Started builds around midday. The Solaris/SPARC server & client built hours ago. Windows client build started at the same time, same codebase, and is still going at 1900... This is normal sadly, Windows is incredibly slow if you are building anything complex...

Edited March 20, 2008 by trollson

[peino]

Thanks for the info, Aislinn.

[daiske1]

Learner.

 

Are the bots out now because i see some out now.

 

Like the one in portland near the bot fashion i think.

OH and the one in nc.

 

Are those the bots for this total war thing.