Hero Points

[trollson]

I was recently reminded of a mechanism we use to use in RPGs; namely Hero Points, and thought they may have some relevance to this game...

Hero Points

 

Most players want their characters to be heros, performing heroic deeds and making a name from themselves. Its rather frustrating when your story ends with a fumble or a critical from a passing Goblin, or under a random avalanche. That is not how the story of your character is suppose to go.

 

To counter this, the concept of "Hero Points" was developed. A character can earn, through play, a limited number of hero points, which can be spent in critical times to keep your character on the road to fame, and off the garden path of obscurity.

 

You don't have many hero points, so the player needs to be careful how they spend them. They cannot be traded between characters, or bought. You have to earn them somehow.

 

No Do-Overs in MMORPGs

 

In their original and most common usage, a hero point was spent to "do-over" a bad roll of the dice.

That critical fumble coming at a particularly bad time -- got a hero point to spare? Then take that roll again!

MMORPGs don't support do-overs like this; you can't rewind the game! So if hero points are to be applicable here, then we need to find new ways to use them that fit into this architecture.

 

Hero point on standby

 

If we can't spend them retrospectively, then we need to commit them up front. So put one or more hero points onto "critical standby":

• If your character fumbles or critically fails a task, including combat, then a point on standby is used and the roll re-done.
  
• If your opponent critical succeeds in a task against you, then a standby hero point is used and their roll is re-done.
  
• You can choose to move hero points in and out of a stand-by allocation, when not otherwise occupied.
  
• The hero point(s) on standby are used automatically for any fumble / critical against you; even if its tying your shoelace!
  
• This does not prevent normal failures or successes against you.
  
• This does not prevent the re-roll from also being a critical; if you have another hero point committed then it can trigger successive re-rolls.
  

This isn't a "do-over" as described in the previous section; the re-roll is made immediately by the server if conditions apply.

 

Hero points as exotic ingredients

 

Eternal Lands tries to limit production of "high end" items by requiring exotic ingredients (such as EFEs) which are only obtained by chance (or from the shop). As discussed in "Disclosure of rate change...", it is hard to balance the supply and demand of these items.

 

Creating a high end item is a heroic deed. So include a hero point in its ingredient list and you have a definite restricted supply.

Imagine, if we didn't have reset, a high end item which required a pick point to be spent in its construction!

Other uses?

 

We still have to consider their effects on Magic and Summoning, and on other interactions and outcomes. Should they be allowed to increase the chance of a critical success (but not guarentee of course)?

Earning Hero Points

 

How should characters' earn their hero points? There are several options, not limited to:

• If we have more quests, then that is an ideal place to earn hero points as rewards.
  
• They could be earned along with experience and OA levels. However, we must ensure that resetting does not result in more points being earned.
  
• Heroic deeds give hero points (unless you spent any in the process): Killing a big beast with a critical hit (killing blow), finding a very rare stone, creating an enhanced form of an item?
  

It is probably best to limit the number of hero points a character can have at any time.

 

 

Does this make sense to anyone?

Edited February 14, 2008 by trollson

[Aphistolas]

Isnt there already an item which; if you critical fail on manuafturing, potioning, crafting you lose the item instead of the ingredients?

 

Hero points being used for fighting, IMO, is a good idea.

 

Perhaps a player could be given a certain amount of Hero Points per day, the same number as everybody else. (That way the newbies can have the same chance during fighting as the more experienced players.)

[trollson]

Perhaps a player could be given a certain amount of Hero Points per day

Way way too many! In their RPG form a character might have at most six (6). With so few people would be foolish to waste them by having points on "standby" while mixing; certainly not when saving stones would be available. But there is no reason to take away the option -- its simpler to say that a standby point causes a re-roll on fumble or critical-against in all situations.

[cho-yun]

most games 'hero' points are rewarded for doing a quest and lost for being killed

[TheComet]

It'd be nice to see Hero points gained...say....every 5 OAs or every 5 of a certain skill?

 

The ability to have some kind of "Epic Moment" use for them would be really interesting, like if for a summoner, you can pull off a 100% success summon at 2X your summoning lvl at the cost of the point

 

What are you thinking for the value of the points? We talking like PP value, or something like you can get effect X at 50 pts of this type, or this effect with 100 pts of type Y?

[trollson]

In reply to The Comet:

 

It'd be nice to see Hero points gained...say....every 5 OAs or every 5 of a certain skill?

Hero Points (HP) couldn't be set against OA levels, as that would be exploited by reset -- if you need a HP to create certain items, then characters with the necessary skills could reset to boost production. Awarding HP against skill level increases would avoid this.

 

However I don't think associating with any skill level would give the right effect for this feature -- a character's supply of HPs would diminish as they level, but their "heroic deeds" should not. Remember also that HPs are consumed on use, and have transient effects, whereas PPs are allocated and have a perminant effect.

 

How you get HPs should be independant of levelling; we already have enough gains from that path.

The ability to have some kind of "Epic Moment"...

Yes that could be one use for them; spend them to get a boost to your effective skill for the next action. If a few pennies will get you a +8 level blessing, then a definite finite resource such as spending a HP should be worth more.

What are you thinking for the value of the points?

Their value depends on their uses and their supply, but consider the following specification:

• Compared to PPs -- worth more than PPs at low level, less at high.
  
  
• HPs are used individually, one for a heroic deed, not in quantity (though you can have a number on "standby", which could get used rapidly).
  
  
• They come gradually through play,
  
  
• The is a limit to the number you can have cached (say 6 for sake of argument). You need to use some before you can earn more.
  
  
• It should not be possible to "grind" to get Hero Points.
  
  

There should be a number of different ways to acquire Hero Points, to allow for varied styles of play. These may include:

• Quest rewards.
  
  
• Heroic deeds (done without using a Hero Point).
  
  
• Random finds (exploration).
  
  
• ...?
  
  

I would avoid awarding Hero Points for level gains though; people need no encouragement for that!