Charm of Annoyance

[Lorck]

And if you don't like magic weapons / branch / bone / crown / Ro Stones...

I dont care about magic weapons, bones, or crowns.

 

Branch is stupid. I remember when DonPedro played, people ganged him (and got owned but they dont cared) with branch to make him lose his itens and then stop fighting. Note that, they dont wanted to simply play and have fun, they wanted to destroy Pedro's itens. Result: DonPedro quitted the game and EL lost one legend.

 

If this becomes a trend everyone will destroy other itens, and people will need to buy other itens on store. But *many* will quit. And for the few pkrs remaining in that scenario, EL will resemble a casino when you only lose.

 

Rostogol stones is less harmful, but pkers still need some reward. Maybe when some dies with a rostogol appears a bag with like 4k gc?

 

EDIT:

Why is this philosophy always used to defend PKers... but never used to defend non-PKers? PKers should have risk too. Killing somone vastly below their level is NOT risk.

Everytime you enter pk map you are risking lose your rostogol, or have yours itens broken. Oh, and you are risking being killed by someone vastly ABOVE your level, or being ganged and killed.

Oh, i already said THERE ARE NO REWARD, only risks?

If you dont like the heat, and dont want to be pked stay away from pk maps.

Edited June 12, 2006 by Lorck

[Infamous]

no, no offence but this is a stupid idea. Im with lorck 100%

 

Pking has been going downhill forever.

Firstly rostogol stones got introduced. These make it that whenever you get a kill in PK you get the reward of a death message. You lose whatever essence/SR you use, and equipment that gets broken.

Next helm of life got introduced. This means that everyone rich enough to afford one could PK, and anyone who hasnt got one, or who cant afford to buy rosts to use one cant go in pk and hope to win.

Then the new magic weapons. BoD = stupid weapon, too powerful. Branch = even more stupid. WHY put this in? Just means anyone who fights it loses so many items they wont even bother fighting.

 

PK has always been criticised by non-pkers. They dont understand the fun and laughs you get when you fight with your friends, or even against them. They just go into a pk map, die and whine/complaing alot. We work for our lvls too, its not like we just magically get them. (well people like liquid who buy chars do... once again unfair to those of us who work.)

Why always do things that are negative to pkers? These days PK is about who has the biggest bank balance in RL. They can buy rostogols, and then buy thermals and sell them for GC, enabling them to buy the new magical weapons.

 

Why pick on PK so much? its just a way for us to have fun and relax after working all day in RL... Just because people view us as evil doesn't mean we are, and so dont' deserve to be treated as such.

 

This idea is yet another thing that will make PK less fun. It gives such a big advantage to non pkers who have this item. Why dont they just go out and train, and if they dont like to train, then WTF are they doing in a PK map?

 

i agree with Zaer on the Bone of death and branch of destruction... i used bone of death a couple of day's

and killed tsunami775674w/e 7 times with it in 2 day's killed liquid like 4 times too even got toomass with it once second time he fled and ran away + i killed xanter with it 1 time.. it was too easy to kill em with that thing no fun with it. (don't say i shouldn't use it then cuz it's the only good weapon vs another bone of death.)

as for branch of destruction.. you go to a pk map and some1 got a branch.. you need to go back to storage put back all your expensive armour and go pk with training gear, and when you got ur training gear they got a thermal or friends with em too so you prolly can take em on 5 seconds before you need to dis+tele.

IMO the branch should be taken out of the game, and the bone of death should be tweaked a bit. (like 6% chance to do 40-100 dmg)

 

Why pick on PK so much? its just a way for us to have fun and relax after working all day in RL... Just because people view us as evil doesn't mean we are, and so dont' deserve to be treated as such.

 

Did your read the first post in this thread?

 

For all I care, you can PK fellow PKers all day long. Go at it.

 

But PKers also seem to get some immature level of fun from PKing people who don't stand a single chance against them. Some 30/30 guy fighting in leather armor (i.e. he has nothing valuable on him). PKer comes in, PKs him for no reason at all. This is fun? *

 

Then let it be fun for the person who dies too. Let him have a chance. **

 

And if you don't like magic weapons / branch / bone / crown / Ro Stones... then suggest to the game makers that there be a few arenas throughout the game where the effects of any magical item (see partial list above) is NEUTRALIZED (thermal serp acts as serp, CoL acts as Iron Helm) or they are useless (thermal serp can not be armed or has no effects like fighting bare handed). Then you can have your old style PK.

 

But not liking this idea because some rich PKers have those other items... doesn't make sense to pick on this idea because your mad at something else in the game.

 

*some of us pick fighting as skill cause they don't like mining/crafting/manufacturing.. and since fighting isn't profitable we need to try and get every drop we can get ^^

** then let him train like the rest.. would be stupid to let us work hard for our high a/d lvls and then let someone of 30/30 a/d who didn't train alot have a chance too lo0l.

 

now i'd like to comment on the item you suggested.

it is already hard to kill someone cause of Crown of life which gives ppl enough time to dis+tele and they alway's get away unless they lag or get disconnected.

so having another item that would make it even more easier to get away would be annoying stupid since they get almost 100% chance to get away.. example they use that thing of annoyance and if it doesn't work then they can dis+tele so they escape.. OR dis is cooling down (most of the times ppl die in pk this would be the reason why they die) so they use a med and still have chance to escape.

so this item would result in even less kills in pk and thus less fun for pk'ers.

 

Edit: ** btw Ghrae in ur profile it say's "From: portland titanium mine" so i think you are a manufacturer (a good one i believe.)

i myself have a low manufacture lvl (16), how would you like it if ppl with low manu lvls would have a chance to make high lvl'ed manufacture items without lvl'ing their skills till a high lvl like yours?

all your hard work would go to waste becuz someone with a low lvl could make all those items himself (even if it's just a low chance)

Edited June 12, 2006 by Hardcore

[Lorck]

Edit: ** btw Ghrae in ur profile it say's "From: portland titanium mine" so i think you are a manufacturer (a good one i believe.)

i myself have a low manufacture lvl (16), how would you like it if ppl with low manu lvls would have a chance to make high lvl'ed manufacture items without lvl'ing their skills till a high lvl like yours?

all your hard work would go to waste becuz someone with a low lvl could make all those items himself (even if it's just a low chance)

He is a pr0 crafter. And people with low levels still have a (very small) chance of making high level itens.

 

But its not the point, in my humble opinion. Pk maps are empty for several reasons (you can read my other posts ), and adding a thing "to annoy" pkers is just making a bad thing even worse.

Edited June 12, 2006 by Lorck

[Zaer]

yup yup, and ghrae, everytime anything that goes against entropy's view of the game gets suggested it gets shot down in 5 mins... why you think the game is in the state its in?

If you dont like fighting/getting killed stay the f*ck out of PK maps, or go and train.

 

If this gets implemented i want an item that lets me craft/manu everything with 90% success rate for 5 minutes, regardless of lvl.

[trollson]

If this gets implemented i want an item that lets me craft/manu everything with 90% success rate for 5 minutes, regardless of lvl.

 

Since the proposed charm disables another character, the equivalent from your PoV would be something that prevents a target from crafting or manufacturing for some period, rather than grant the user that ability.

[Zaer]

no, because you dont use it on someone outside a pk map do you? lmfao

 

what he suggests nullifies the hours of training that i have put into my a/d. Therefore what i suggest nullifies his, and enables me to do what he does. What he is suggesting enables him to beat me in a pk map, no matter how much better i am at fighting that him.

he has also put in hours of work on crafting, and so my item enables me to beat him at that, even though my lvl is 0

[Kalach]

Seems to me, Ghrae, that Zaer has indicated the best solution. Start taking your cash and purchase BOD's/branches for midlevel players and send them on missions of death/destruction into the void. Actually, this could be an interesting guild idea: suicide squadrons with the appropriate perks, high coordination and a bone of death/branch. That makes the PK'er have to reassess their chances.

 

Personally, though, I'd like to see some of the guilds with high minded names (L&O, JuSt, etc...) step away from the usual PK alliances gig. Either sell their services as hired bodyguards for persons like Ghrae, or if they feel like playing cop (As the names seem to suggest) they can set up a code to enforce, and start watching for chances to enforce it. They could also use BoD/Branch. That would be another risk.

[trollson]

no, because you dont use it on someone outside a pk map do you? lmfao

 

what he suggests nullifies the hours of training that i have put into my a/d. Therefore what i suggest nullifies his, and enables me to do what he does. What he is suggesting enables him to beat me in a pk map, no matter how much better i am at fighting that him.

he has also put in hours of work on crafting, and so my item enables me to beat him at that, even though my lvl is 0

 

The suggestion does not nullify your training; no more than a disengagement and teleport ring would.

 

He is not beating you in combat, just avoiding it by moving you away (or rather the god Aluewn is) (1). You do not die, and the only item lost is the charm, whatever form it takes.

 

The Charm of Aluewn could even be viewed as another type of mines/boobytrap which have been suggested before, except without necessarily causing harm.

 

 

There seems to be an assumption in posts from the PK perspective, that nothing should challenge fighters for supremecy in combat. The only alternate at present is high level summoning, which is notoriously hard to sustain (but quite funny when used in excess). The lack of any other challenger is a gap in the game which needs to be filled -- a decent array of offensive magic would liven things up, allowing potent mages to be developed.

 

 

Kalach the BoD approach only works if you actually get a chance to place a blow. The combat system becomes a one-blow affair rather too rapidly. If any combat lasted for a reasonable length of time, then there would be more options available.

 

 

Footnotes:

(1) On further reflection, I don't think that exile to Hulda, or even a temporary hellspawn, are necessary with such an artifact; just a once off relocation to the underworld.

Edited June 12, 2006 by trollson

[Bharain]

I quite like this idea, however:

 

1) hulda is too harsh, KF would be fine (might even make for some fun wars as the "annoyed" PKers enemies go to get him and his allies go to defend)

2) i think the charm should work like a cheap low chance rost so if the target is good enough to get away the attacker doesn't get "annoyed"

3) should only trigger when the holder was the target not the attacker and if the target is significantly weaker (shouldn't get punished for attacking and killing someone stronger than you)

 

I agree with some of the points made by PKers in this thread. PK needs to be made profitable before this item get's introduced, I very rarely get any profit from PK (and that's without trying to use the summoning skill it cost me a fortune to level). If you could profit (or at least break even) from fighting people your own level then maybe the need for this item would be less.

 

Also this charm can't tell why it's holder was PKed: should i be punished for attacking someone who just bagjumped me or scammed my friend?

[Torg]

The idea behind these items is *simply* to give those with lower levels PvP training peacfully in a PK area a chance to be avoided by higher level PKer's that are bored. If the higher level PKer attacks, they might find themselves elsewhere for 10 minutes or so. Thus meaning that they are (vaguely) punished for PKing a much lower level player minding their own business.

 

Now with all that considered, I think it is a good idea. It doesn't mean anything for high level PKers wanting to PK each other. It isn't damaging anything..... until, a high level PKer decides to get these items and use them themselves, in which case you all have a reason to moan and bitch about it.

 

The idea is good, but the problem is restricting it to those who can't defend themselves.

[Zaer]

yes, but from what you're saying the whole point of this is to let people pvp?

 

I never had this advantage, i just had to train on animals and monsters and work my way up. Why should these newer people get an advantage?

and a lower lvl pker shouldnt come in a map with higher lvled ones. Like i myself have suggested many times before we need lvl restricted maps or areas so that lower lvld pkers can fight without dieing and coming to the forums to moan about everything.

[Atlantis]

The idea behind these items is *simply* to give those with lower levels PvP training peacfully in a PK area a chance to be avoided by higher level PKer's that are bored. If the higher level PKer attacks, they might find themselves elsewhere for 10 minutes or so. Thus meaning that they are (vaguely) punished for PKing a much lower level player minding their own business.

There's no need for this thing. If someone wants to attack you during training, they should be allowed to. They worked hard for their levels, and they're allowed to kill who they want. It may be against the "player rules," but if we implement this then we need to blow up bombs on death bag stealers, and other stuff. So stop whining, and leave the PK map or go to c2 where no pk'ers don't often go. Edited June 12, 2006 by Atlantis

[Lorck]

But wtf those that cant defend themself are doing in a dangerous map?

 

Oh, and about that item that make you able to craft any ring with 90% of chance of suceeding, that should also annoy the real crafter. Hmm, maybe forcing the pr0 crafter to listen backstreet boys is a good idea.

Edited June 12, 2006 by Lorck

[Kedan]

How about when attacked while wearing the amulet the att, def, phy and coord levels or each player are swaped. So the low level player will get the stats of the high level player and the low level player would get the stats of the high level player for that fight (If attacked by more than one person, then the person attack(if they have the amulet on) would take the highest levels person stats, and everyone else would get the low level persons stats). Then affter the fight (no matter who wins) the pker/s are teleported to hell which they can't leave for 30 mins (which only count down while ingame).

 

And this should only work if the other person attacks them and is over 20 combat levels(att+def/2) above them, so it only affect the "bullys". And to make it fair on the pkers there should be some negative side for the user, and a possitive side for the pker. e.g. the pker gets all the items in the persons inventory at the time (maybe transers to there storage).

 

This would mean the pker would run the risk of being stuck in the underworld for 30 mins if they attack someone alot weaker than them. But on the plus side they still get everything they had on them (meaning if they are pking for items, which is what pking should be about, they still get that reward. But if they are pking just to pk someone and they have nothing of value on them it will be a bad thing for them.)

 

Or istead this could be something that happens all the time but at a random chance. So something like a 1/10 chance of this happening if you attack someone 20 combat levels below you. On the role playing side, it can be side that Aluewn noticed that you was prying on the weak as has punished you by banishing you to hell for 30 mins, but mortas has praised your evil doing and gave you all the items they has on them.

[Lorck]

How about when attacked while wearing the amulet the att, def, phy and coord levels or each player are swaped. So the low level player will get the stats of the high level player and the low level player would get the stats of the high level player for that fight (If attacked by more than one person, then the person attack(if they have the amulet on) would take the highest levels person stats, and everyone else would get the low level persons stats). Then affter the fight (no matter who wins) the pker/s are teleported to hell which they can't leave for 30 mins (which only count down while ingame).

 

And this should only work if the other person attacks them and is over 20 combat levels(att+def/2) above them, so it only affect the "bullys". And to make it fair on the pkers there should be some negative side for the user, and a possitive side for the pker. e.g. the pker gets all the items in the persons inventory at the time (maybe transers to there storage).

 

This would mean the pker would run the risk of being stuck in the underworld for 30 mins if they attack someone alot weaker than them. But on the plus side they still get everything they had on them (meaning if they are pking for items, which is what pking should be about, they still get that reward. But if they are pking just to pk someone and they have nothing of value on them it will be a bad thing for them.)

 

Or istead this could be something that happens all the time but at a random chance. So something like a 1/10 chance of this happening if you attack someone 20 combat levels below you. On the role playing side, it can be side that Aluewn noticed that you was prying on the weak as has punished you by banishing you to hell for 30 mins, but mortas has praised your evil doing and gave you all the items they has on them.

Its serious?

People either bought his stats, or trained hard to get them. But when you attack someone who did not there are a random chance of all your work dont meaned nothing.

Really, really nice.

[0ctane]

Here is an alternate idea that uses an existing, unused game element: your charm level increases your chance of avoiding a fight. So when Mr. Brickhouse PKer (with p/c of 30/30 and charm of 4) tries to attack you (let's say charm of 10), he gets the message, "You reconsider attacking X". Then that PKer cannot attack you for a certain amount of time.

 

Could make the calculation as "reconsider chance" = 3% x charm. Charm could be something like your ability to pursuade. You would have to get a very high charm (34) to avoid all combat. Of course, this would not work on monsters (MM perk for that).

 

[edit] typos

Edited June 12, 2006 by 0ctane

[Lorck]

I actually liked Octane's suggestion. At least it does not punish you for having a high skill and trying to take advantage of it.

 

I like fair fights and dislike overkill (a 120/120 player against one with 50/50) as much as the next one. But using stuff to annoy or swap stats just because someone made more effort in some skills than others i would not agree.

[Zaer]

ye octane pro suggestion, like if you click on him and he too charming you cant attack him for another 5 secs.

[ttlanhil]

if this is actually about the diff in levels, why not have something like a level-variant diss ring? if you try to use it, then the person who attacked you gets dis-frozen for, I dunno, their combat level[1] minus yours, in seconds. if a high level PKer attacks a low level one, they might be frozen in place for half a minute (hmm, okay, with highest level always going up we need a max... or better yet a formula with decreasing increase)... if it's someone in their own weight class, it's gonna have as much effect, or less, as a diss ring.

attacking someone far below you isn't gonna give much in the way of xp or items anyway (in most cases), so this isn't too hard on the PKers

I'm not a PKer, and I'd get frustrated if I got killed by a PKer going through some map... but I happen to agree with what the PKers say about the items and all. rosto is overly powerful (how about embedding it in items? the value of a rosto drops since you need more to protect items, but you still have a way to protect rare stuff like magic swords. or if it must stay, how about breaking on death means it drops some other sort of stone for the attacker to pick up), CoL means you need a huge amount of attacking (restore is the other half of the issue) to get through it (how about +50 max health, and another +2 regen), which then means you need items that do massive damage (then requiring anyone else to have the high health), etc

this looks to me like PKing is simply having heaps of cash (real or ingame) to spend on items, getting kitted up, and hoping things go well... instead of stragety and planning. to get that, you need non-linear items. the blunt/slashing/peircing from games long ago is one example. bringing in stuff with protection against the magics, and allowing magic weapons(as in fire/ice/magic/thermal/any additions to this like radiation, acid, poison) to become cheaper and even common place will help here. and yes, I do know that there's a bunch of new swords with variance in them, which sounds like a step in the right direction

 

 

feetnote:

1) need to formalise some sort of combat level for this to work, however. could be done simply on a/d/p/c, of course.

[Lorck]

This way you still punish someone for having a higher level.

I tought rpgs offered rewards for people who worked hard enough to get high levels, not punishments.

[ttlanhil]

This way you still punish someone for having a higher level.

so you get diss-frozen for a bit longer. not much of a punishment unless you really are a top fighter beating up on newbs

[Lorck]

This way you still punish someone for having a higher level.

so you get diss-frozen for a bit longer. not much of a punishment unless you really are a top fighter beating up on newbs

Stay frozen in kf when your enemies are near and tell me if it is cool stuff. Anyway, we can send villekpl to dis Masterpiter, so he stands there for a loooong time.

Anyway, skills are for being used.

Later i will suggest that if you are a top manuer and try to make a leather glove there are a random chance of your screen get filled with UobeyUok messages and you suddenly start to listen to KennyG

[Zaer]

lol lorck, i agree with much of what ttl says. PK is too cash orientated, there isn't enough skill or tactics involved. The new weapons and invisibility spell will help a LOT with this ofcourse but it would be nice to see different type of armour like the new weapon, so you have to weigh up the pro's and con's of each armour.

[Infamous]

EL shop shoppers get these new items in no time np

[Ghrae]

If this gets implemented i want an item that lets me craft/manu everything with 90% success rate for 5 minutes, regardless of lvl.

The item I suggested wasn't 100%. I guess PKing means that you are unable to read unless you read what you want to hear. It was a low chance. A small chance to send you away.

 

And have you seen market? Everyone sells ROPs and other "high level" crafting already. Hello! The market is flooded with crafting stuff. Finished goods sell below the cost of the items. So I already live in a world of "levels don't matter". And there already is a success boost: crafting god. Oh wait, there's another boost: crafting potions (and I don't remember crafters up in arms when this was introduced).

 

Also, let me ask: do fighters expect to be profitable? I ask because I can only tell of a few truly profitable ventures in the game: harvesting, alchemy (in some forms) and monster killing (higher levels: cloaks, etc).

 

Other than that, I don't see any skill being profitable.

 

So that leads me to believe that PK should not be profitable either (why give them an advantage over other skills). But you say it isn't profitable. Ok. So now you're back at the bully stage where you just want to be able to kill everyone because that is how you have a good time?

Edited June 12, 2006 by Ghrae