Paganism

[ttlanhil]

Well and the bible DOES say that witchraft (wich they linked to pagan) is a work of satan. Which is likely why they persecuted.

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well, yeah, witchcraft is a form of paganism. though since witchcraft has been around far longer than christianity(and hence, the christian devil), you kinda have to wonder

[Aerowind]

Yep, also Pagans do not believe in a heaven or hell, we believe in reincarnation and that death is just basically a time to let your soul rest and wait for it to be reborn into anything (I think... correct me if I'm wrong ttlan)

 

P.S. ttlanhil you should check out www.circleofsouls.net it has a Pagan Radio and some awesome forums (with a great community)

[Kala]

Well and the bible DOES say that witchraft (wich they linked to pagan) is a work of satan. Which is likely why they persecuted.

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The same Bible that documents human sacrifice as a work of God?

 

Aero, www.witchvox.com

Edited July 9, 2005 by Kala

[Aerowind]

Hey Hey now Kala, no religion bashing now... we don't want the mods deleting our topic lol

[giannis]

I didn't say I feared your religion or any other religion, besides the christians you talk about were mostly catholic and protestants. But then that was the majority of christianity back in the day.

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Dude come on.... don't forghet the Cristian Orthodox, we are always left out

 

no, sorry, I mean that was my guess at the reason why the church of the day made such a thing blasphemous

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My guess, would be that what Aero said above about black paganism and curses

 

Dark Paganism which usually cast what most people call "black magick" which is casting a spell on someone without there permission (curse) that is usually intended to harm the person they are cursing

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would have them more scared than competition. I mean I would be really scared if I was a midevil peasant, and there was a person in my village who allegedly was able to cast curses on me.

 

Then again, at that time ppl were hostile against other religions (and sects) in general, regardless if they were "good" or "bad". But that is not a christian fault per se, but rather the product of a complex interplay of various political/social components.

 

What i mean is that people seem to forghet when they speek about christianity after the fall of rome, that there was no seperation between church and state. And actually, in an era where there wasno notion of nations/nationalities/ethnic groups and coutnries religion was the unifing ingredient of the medival societies. Political figures (Kings, Emperors, the Pope) took advantage of christianity as the common ground amongst the people of Europe to promote stability in their terretories. Religions/ belief systems other than christianity (Islam, Paganism, Nestorians, Monophysites, Judaism etc.) were viewed as sources of Instability to the status quo and thus were prosecuted. Being Evil, or satan worshipers was only an excuse the real reasons had always been political.

 

 

Anyhow Quick Question:

 

Believing in the 12 gods of Olympus (Zeus, Hermes, Hera, etc...) Is that paganism too? I know that the ancient Greeks were considered pagans by christians but do modern day pagans consider ancient Greeks as pagans. I know some ppl (not very well, they are kind of weird) that are dodekatheists (worshiping the 12 gods of Olympus) but they are into it not, for the "spirituality" but for the orgies and the occasional goat sacrifise.

 

 

EDIT: TYpos

Edited July 9, 2005 by giannis

[Aerowind]

Yes the 12 gods of Olympus are considered Pagan gods (I'm still in the middle of picking my god to worship so yes I could worship Zues if I wanted to ) but I'm not sure if modern greeks consider ancient greeks Pagan (We need a whole thing devoted to speaking about Religion X.x)

[Kala]

I picked Hoohoo the Pickle Goddess and underpants stealing gnomes for my gods.

[giannis]

I'm still in the middle of picking my god to worship so yes I could worship Zues if I wanted to. 

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Dude, my advice is don't go with Zeus, he is an idiot, his wife maniopulates him all the time. Go for hephestus (Vulcan in English I believe) not only he can make cool stuff with his hands, but he also gets the good looking chick at the end (Aphrodite).

 

But yeah seriously.... can you really do that?.. pick your own god? that sounds kind of weird. Is that mainstream paganism or your twist on it?

[The_Piper]

Greek, roman, german/nordic and such, thats all the same bunch.

 

One god for war, one for fire, one for fertility, one for hunting, the other ones get ocassionally drunk and no one pays the bill.

 

Piper

[Mireille]

Dude, my advice is don't go with Zeus, he is an idiot,  his wife maniopulates him all the time. Go for hephestus (Vulcan in English I believe)

 

 

In Diablo II he was called Hephasto.

 

But yeah seriously.... can you really do that?.. pick your own god? that sounds kind of weird. Is that mainstream paganism or your twist on it?

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That's not religion anymore, that's pop culture. :/ Like that garbage Hollywood kaballah for dummies.

 

Edit: \/\/|-|3\/\/7! A puma!

Edited July 9, 2005 by Mireille

[ttlanhil]

Greek, roman, german/nordic and such,  thats all the same bunch.

 

One god for war, one for fire, one for fertility, one for hunting, the other ones get ocassionally drunk and no one pays the bill. 

 

Piper

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heck no. there's generally a god for feasting/drinking too!

Edited July 9, 2005 by ttlanhil

[ttlanhil]

But yeah seriously.... can you really do that?.. pick your own god? that sounds kind of weird. Is that mainstream paganism or your twist on it?

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there's a huge range of religions that are pagan. and a huge number of gods. why not pick the religion that best describes what you deep down beleive? and the god that best suits your beleifs, values, etc?

there's no such thing as a default pagan, it's a range that each person will have adapted a bit to fit what just feels right to them

[giannis]

Like that garbage Hollywood kaballah for dummies.

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Actualy Qaballah is garbage for dummies not Kabbalah (which is pretty cool I believe). Hm funny just noticed this....... Qabbalah and Kabbalah

,magic and magick. Shoudn't there be Christianity and Khristianity?

 

but yeah I do agree with you

 

That's not religion anymore, that's pop culture.

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and not only that, but doint that in a religion makes it as much American as CoCa Cola is.....

Edited July 9, 2005 by giannis

[Mireille]

there's a huge range of religions that are pagan. and a huge number of gods. why not pick the religion that best describes what you deep down beleive? and the god that best suits your beleifs, values, etc?

 

 

If you are picking gods... That's idiotic, isn't just easier to admit to yourself that you ARE NOT, in fact, a religious person and do it just to give yourself an illusion of being spirited to impress members of the opposite sex?

 

"Beings should not be multiplied beyond necessity", or something like that. Ockham was a very wise person.

Edited July 9, 2005 by Mireille

[ttlanhil]

If you are picking gods... That's idiotic, isn't just easier to admit to yourself that you ARE NOT, in fact, a religious person and do it just to give yourself an illusion of being spirited  to impress members of the opposite sex?

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erm... hunh? you can chose your religion, and what god you worship (if you do) is a defining part of your religion. and it's not so much picking a god you like, it's figuring out which one best matches you(same as picking religion should be)

[Mireille]

erm... hunh? you can chose your religion, and what god you worship (if you do) is a defining part of your religion. and it's not so much picking a god you like, it's figuring out which one best matches you(same as picking religion should be)

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I could come up with a reply quite easily, but that would just as easily lead to a flame war, so I'll remain silent.

[Aerowind]

Yes exactly, each god represents certain things (some are nearly clones because some are the Olympus gods and some are Celtic some are Wiccan) same as a pathway, your pathway defines you more specifically than Pagan, and sure you could wait until the god you could of picked yourself practically kicks you in your head saying I'm YOUR GOD(DESS) so it's not stupid.

 

Such as I worship the goddess Ceridwen here's what she stands for

Cerridwen-Welsh;Goddess of death,initiation,inspriration,magic,regeneration.Known as a moon Goddess,Great Mother,and grain deity,wife of the giant Tegrid.She brewed a magical potion of wisdom in her cauldron, and forced young Taliesin to stir it for a year and a day. When he accidently swallowed the last three drops,he was transformed into a bard.Welsh bards once called themselves Cerddorion "sons ofCerridwen" meaning they received ther initiation from Cerridwen herself.

 

I chose here because of the things she stands for, so I wouldn't chose someone like:

 

Caillech:Ireland,Scotland:Goddess of disease and plague.A destroyer,or Crone,Goddess,she was also called "Veiled One".As the Crone,she ruled with the Maiden and the Mother.Dogs guarded the gates of her afterworld realm where she received the dead.Celtic myth has her gatekeeper dog named Dormarth.

 

This is because this goddess is of disease and plague and I do not like these things, I study healing, and like night (Ceridwen is called a moon goddess) so now do you see the point of choosing your own god?

[Mireille]

This is because this goddess is of disease and plague and I do not like these things, I study healing, and like night (Ceridwen is called a moon goddess) so now do you see the point of choosing your own god?

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No.

 

But nevermind.

[Aerowind]

Okay... so if choosing your god is considered "Pop Culture" why isn't choosing your religion "pop culture" or if your Christian why isn't choosing your path of Christian "Pop Culture"

 

Certain gods/desses suit certain people and others don't so you choose which one fits you best this isn't Monotheism so how are you gonna decide which god and goddesss you worship?

[Kala]

Don't be so obtuse. That's my job.

[rasberrybeard]

Dude come on.... don't forghet the Cristian Orthodox, we are always left out

 

isnt orthodox a branch off of catholosism? Correct me if im wrong.

[Mireille]

isnt orthodox a branch off of catholosism? Correct me if im wrong.

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You are wrong. And it's spelled "catholicism".

[Mireille]

Okay... so if choosing your god is considered "Pop Culture" why isn't choosing your religion "pop culture" or if your Christian why isn't choosing your path of Christian "Pop Culture"

 

Certain gods/desses suit certain people and others don't so you choose which one fits you best this isn't Monotheism so how are you gonna decide which god and goddesss you worship?

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As I already said, I'm not going to be drawn further into a religion flame war.

[m_bee]

As a christian, this is blashpemy to me, but whatever floats your boat kiddo.

 

 

Well and the bible DOES say that witchraft (wich they linked to pagan) is a work of satan. Which is likely why they persecuted.

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So, should everyone that does not agree with you be persecuted?

 

That is the thing that make religions so nice on my eyes... That and the religious wars. Who cares about Satan? "All you you need is love, love... love is all you need" (By The Beatles [TM])

 

<edit>

 

By the way, Satan is just an arbitraty name, he could have been named Saint Peter, Espinete, of Mr. Incredible. The thing is that, for a thing to exist in our minds, we have the need to have something to compare against, we really need an oppositte for all the concepts that we assimilate.

Edited July 10, 2005 by m_bee

[m_bee]

I needed to explain one thing, so I post again. Note that this is "a bit" offtopic and is nothing against the paganism or any other beliefs. It is sunday and I have a headache, so just bear with me...

 

As stated is my first post in this thread, I think that everyone has the right (and almost the obligation) to have his/her own ideas. This is human nature, and should never be persecuted. The problem comes when your ideas take you to argue with other people about different ideas.

 

The catholic inquisition did so much damage to the whole humankind on that sense, in the "god's name" (wich is not right, I dont agree with catholicism but is not right to attribute that to God). In that meaning, these days we have a similar example with the Al Qaeda thingy, so sad that ideals take people to kill another people.

 

In that sense, religions have a lack: they are hyper-ego feeders: "the only right one is me". (Statement that every religious person admit when s/he takes his/her religion consciously). Everyone should admit the posibility of errors, so, admit too the posibility that, maybe, any other person, with different beliefs is also right, and maybe, has his/her reason... "Maybe, all the beliefs are right..." I would love to see that quote written in The Holy Bibble (I know is too late for that, but to wish is for free...).

 

Personally, I was forced to learn in the catholicism, I know also the Koran because I am always curious about all the things and I took the time to read it (strange simils, by the way...), and I also took a look in my school days to the religious books of India (dunno how the thing is in english, in my native tongue they are called "Los Vedas"). None of these convinced me... Now I am an apostate, I renounced to the Catholic Church, I never asked to go into, and I think that is a shame that your own parents force you to go into that without even asking you a single word about it and when you have no brain to think what in The Earth is that. I am a happy man that have no beliefs at all... (Please, no flames for that, I will ignore them anyway...).

 

My only religion: blues, jazz, classics... I like good people. I like truth (hard one to find), I like beer and rum, I like Metallica (This is for Mireille, remember the metalist thread , I like kisses, I like Pink Floyd also, I like Dostoievsky and Nietzsche (even when I do not agree with his ideas 100%), I like Jaco Pastorius (he is dead and was a drugaddict, but a nice person and a Magick musician ). I love Alberto Cereijo (for sure no one knows about him, but is an Spanish musician from Galicia that studied with Joe Satriani in Berkeley). I like original people, and I like also the freedom of speech (I lived in a dictatorial thingy the very first days of my life, thanks to the world that that passed and I almost do not remember about that... Some very good people died...).

 

I dont think that religions are bad in any way, remember that I said before: "Everyone should admit the posibility of errors, so, admit too the posibility that, maybe, any other person, with different beliefs is also right.". That is applicable also for people that, like me, have no beliefs: I have the right to think that way, but I have to understand and show respect for the rest of people that have their beliefs. I dont like any religions but I have respect for them, I dont like Cristina Aguilera or Linking Park, but I have respect for them, all the people have the rights to be in the world and do what they want without harming the rest of the people.

 

I feel respect for all the people, may they be pagans, catholics, ecologists, businessmen, poor people, fish vendors, truck drivers, priests, rockers, bluesmen, blue people, waiters, car sellers, unknown people, people who read this little piece of garbage, George Bush, Ben Laden, soldiers and victims, the police -and The Police -......

 

-Regards people, and remember that these are just empty thoughts, but I have the right to put them here