Musings: On What To Do

[Lyanna]

You know, I sit by beam often, and one of the common questions I hear being asked by newbies is "What is there to do in this game?"

 

That question has always bothered me.

 

You see, the only answer I can think of is "work on developing one of your skills". Fighting is basically developing your att/def skills, all the manu/alch/pot actions are just developing the relevant skills, etc. In other words, what I'm telling them is to "get involved in the levelling grind".

 

And that's sad, isn't it?

 

There are a FEW other options available...

 

- You can take part in quests, but if all the quests do is to give you exp rewards, then it's back to the levelling grind again - a large portion of the players do quests just for the rewards, and hardly pay attention to the scripted story at all. I've been asking around, and that is the case, apparently enough. They don't want a story. They want cheap leather, or manu exp, or free weapons, or cheap wine. Who cares about Latis' father, or Mrs Lorpak's rights, or Kelcha's health, or the rift between Edlera and Tankel, or Lord Luxin's worries over war?

 

- You can take part in NH and player-organised contests. But how often do they happen? Perhaps once every 4 hours or so, on average. (Good days may have up to 3, bad days can go without one at all).

 

- You can chat. Just chat on the channels, interacting with your friends. But how is that different from IRC, or any of the messenger programs out there? And even so, not all the people you want to chat with may be on at the same time.

 

- You can try your luck with Gamble, Tinkerbelle, Joker, and the other chance-based interactive games out there. In retrospect, I'm really grateful to Nidan and whoever developed Tinkerbell for creating them, because they add spice to in-game life.

 

 

But is that enough? I doubt it. Most players don't really do that for very long. I've been wondering for a long time about this. If you're tired of levelling, and you just want to do something to relax or have fun within the game, what else can you do?

 

I'm posting this thread to find out. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

-Lyn-

[ttlanhil]

well, there's exploring, wandering around and looking at things... it's not the most exciting thing to do, but it can be interesting for a few hours spread over a week or two

[Placid]

Some very valid points Lyanna. I have to agree that getting that sort of question from a newbie, is not only common, but also quite hard to answer.

 

When receiving such a question, its easy to think that the person asking is actually being silly, but in reality, its a very good question.

 

I think what this game (at the moment) lacks, is a real RP'ing focus, something that can only be found if you find people to do it with. Which is much the same as just chatting or doing the quests. An MMOPRPG should be based largely on Storyline, Roleplaying and skills; in that order. It should encourage some reality and a 'Fantasy' world. A common response to such a comment is usually: "we dont want reality, we want a game!". Although a valid point, such games need an aura and an atmosphere, something which is very important to keep players.

 

In essence, I believe this game not only needs to focus on skills, but moreso on encouraging roleplay and a sense of atmosphere when playing. Players like GrimTaker are fantastic to see, because they add a huge amount of feeling about their character - a roleplay feel.

 

A lot of work is going into developing the quests and actual gameplay, and once this has been rolled into the game, I believe your musings will be spent

 

I hope you see what I mean.

 

[Ghrae]

I guess you could ask the same questions in real life? I mean, how many people go to school (which they often don't like) only to get a job (which, often they will not like) and date (in hopes of finding someone permanent)??

 

A lot of what we do can seem pointless or even repetitive both in life and in game, but we still play (both life and game).

 

I think the point is, are you happy? Does the combination of all things (quests, leveling, exploring, chatting, etc...) make you happy? If so, then you've found the point of playing. If not, then perhaps you need to keep searching until you find that thing that puts a smile on your face.

[Placid]

Very true kit. But at the same time, there still has to be a similar forumla for a successful game, something that appeals to everyone.

[Ghrae]

Very true kit. But at the same time, there still has to be a similar forumla for a successful game, something that appeals to everyone.

160794[/snapback]

 

I don't think you'll ever be able to "appeal to everyone". But if you do find that formula... SHARE IT

[Lyanna]

Hmm.. When you think about it, what I'm essentially asking for is the in-game equivalents of a RL hobby. That produces some interesting ideas...

 

In real-life, there are many hobbies, but off the top of my head, I can classify them into broad categories, which are:

 

Sports: Obviously, a lot of people love to play or watch sports. They like the thrill and excitement of conflict and competition. The in-game equivalent of this is PKing, and watching people PK. Once the arenas are built and implemented, then I think we're going to get a surge of people becoming gladiator-duelists, so there's no problem there. Hunting random spawns would probably appeal to these players too. Similar to this is the manhunt, for less violent-oriented players. These are normally run by NHs, but I was wondering whether it was possible to create a small minigame, involving one bot sending you to find another one (which wanders all over the place).

 

Arts and Crafts: This, I think, we have not really tapped on. The first and foremost desire in these players is to create. EL has no dynamic maps, nor dynamic manufacturing formulae, so what we're essentially doing is stifling this creativity. There's no "sandbox" within the game itself to play with. What we're currently doing is co-opting all of those people to work in development. The artists submit concept art or maps, the writers go to Storylines or Role-Playing, the fashion designers do some tinkering with the md2 files and textures, the musicians go to Sound/Music, etc. But all of this creativity is expressed OUTSIDE the game. What is the most easily-implementable way of allowing some creativity into the game itself? Player houses? Trainable pets? Custom-designed (within the game) equipment? An "Invention" skill? A "Music" skill?

 

Nature: It's not exactly a perfect definition, but here I lump all those hobbies like fishing, gardening, photography, astronomy, walks in the park, etc. (maybe cooking too) They're peaceful, individualistic and "slow" hobbies, where the joy comes from just doing something quietly, in a nice environment. What are the in-game equivalents of this? Well, there's exploring... but there's only so many maps to look at. No fishing, cooking is a joke, no gardening... that leaves only photography. Now HERE's something I think we can use. How much effort would it take to create a "Camera" feature in the client, similar to what The Sims had? I think there is a group of people who would enjoy taking memorable moments and beautiful scenery, without having to leave the game to open image editors and other stuff like that. Is this a viable development path?

 

 

I can't think of any other hobbies, but maybe you guys can. What else can we come up with to make EL's life more interesting and varied?

 

-Lyn-

[Aislinn]

Hmmm maybe implement jobs...

An npc perhaps that offers different kinds of jobs, sort of like quests I would guess, and you get paid for completing them. You can do them as often as you wish, or just once. Different categories, for now I would guess they would have to follow the skill choices we have but they could be expanded on later.

 

I would like to see things like farming, where you can have your own farm and raise veggies and have some livestock.

 

I would like to see the bots be more like shopkeepers, in a stall somewhere. Add a little more of the roleplaying atmosphere.

 

And definitely more organized contests. (I love the trivia channels, even though that has nothing to do with the roleplaying).

 

You are right, we need more ingame activities that aren't necessarily level related but that give a player a reason to participate in them.

[Placid]

Good points. Especially your run-down on the 'hobbies'. What we also have to take into account is what is planned for the revamping of skills.

 

At the moment, all we know is that there will be dramatic changes.

 

Lyanna, your photography idea is fantastic, just an easy way of making screenshots (in essence), but something that could be taken into the game and used as part of the in-game play. I like this idea, alot. Can a developer shed any light into the possibility of this?

 

These bot manhunt ideas are great, something like a dynamic manhunt idea. Perhaps even WanderingFool and WanderingIdiot could be amended to implement such a thing, and a predefined channel (that you cant talk on) could be created so that those who wish to play, can join the channel, read the announcements of the bot as to where the manhunt target is located, and then once the target is found, the controller bot announces, a nd the game restarts. This, is definately a very fantastic thought, nice

 

I'd also like to see more dynamic NPC's, as Aislinn suggested. Perhaps even if they just walk around and leave their shops to go pick up some flowers, and return (not necessarily effecting a players chance of selling, they'll just have to wait a few minutes for the NPC to return - like we have to sometimes in RL ). Another, exciting idea.

[ttlanhil]

One of the things that can give a real sence of acomplishment is affecting your world.

Now, in the linear single player game (or multiplayer, in most cases) you generally have an epic tale, and are a major influence.

That's a lot harder to do in an MMORPG, I know

 

Hmm.. When you think about it, what I'm essentially asking for is the in-game equivalents of a RL hobby.

 

to a limited degree, and yes, not enough, being able to generalise int he game works towards this. If there were many more skills and things to do, it would help

Arts and Crafts:

<snip>

The artists submit concept art or maps, the writers go to Storylines or Role-Playing, the fashion designers do some tinkering with the md2 files and textures, the musicians go to Sound/Music, etc. But all of this creativity is expressed OUTSIDE the game. What is the most easily-implementable way of allowing some creativity into the game itself? Player houses? Trainable pets? Custom-designed (within the game) equipment? An "Invention" skill? A "Music" skill?

Perhaps there could be made available tools so that people can write their own quests, make NPCs, items, maps, etc, and play them out... in a miniveiwer sort of setting, this would help development because then you can test anything without connecting to the official server. Yes, I know, this would be a huge task.

 

for pets, I think it would be cool to get a pet or familiar, posted something about it here though there's a lot more to read, so just read the first part.

 

a music skill could perhaps be expanded into bardic skills, including acrobatics, song, dance, instruments, etc...

 

on invention, what I think would be really cool (and of course that means a lot of work) is custom designed equipment... using this, you could would pick what materials to use, how much of each, what techniques to use in manufacturing, any magical effects you want to use (which crafting already does, so that's not a far fetched idea)

 

for example, you may decide to make a sword with a steel/titanium alloy blade around a titanium core, handle wrapped in leather, maybe some crushed quartz could be used to tinge the metal, get some rarish magical ingredients and be able to get extra effects (ranging from +1 to att or def up to additional magic damage).

You would need to read up a lot on all of the skills you wish to use, and it's not until you've made the weapon that you know how well it worked... there'd also be bonuses or negative effects based on the player... a master swordsmith will produce the finest plain iron swords, while someone of intermediate skill will make a poor serpent sword.

 

Nature: It's not exactly a perfect definition, but here I lump all those hobbies like fishing, gardening, photography, astronomy, walks in the park,  etc. (maybe cooking too) They're peaceful, individualistic and "slow" hobbies, where the joy comes from just doing something quietly, in a nice environment. What are the in-game equivalents of this? Well, there's exploring... but there's only so many maps to look at. No fishing, cooking is a joke, no gardening... that leaves only photography. Now HERE's something I think we can use. How much effort would it take to create a "Camera" feature in the client, similar to what The Sims had? I think there is a group of people who would enjoy taking memorable moments and beautiful scenery, without having to leave the game to open image editors and other stuff like that. Is this a viable development path?

I can't think of any other hobbies, but maybe you guys can. What else can we come up with to make EL's life more interesting and varied?

 

-Lyn-

160803[/snapback]

 

if we ever do get depletable resources, gardening could be used to grow more flowers... the problem is how to restrict the amount and locations appropriately, of course.

fishing and hunting could be ways to gain food

astronomy could come under a group of 'skills' in the sciences, which have different effects on a player

cooking could certaily be expanded on, and make use of fruit, vegetables, wines, etc.

walks in the park, sitting and looking at flowers etc could be a form of gentle meditation, clearing the mind, helping your research (nothing else to think about, you can just curl up with a book). this one is prone to AFK research problems though

photography is already covered quite well, being able to press a key like PrintScreen and EL saves in a 'screenshots' folder could make it work a lot better than the current setup.

 

heck, you could even build up a system where you have people assist on a farm making grain, then others work in a mill, more in a bakery, and out comes bread... you could get paid a bit for your work, of course.

to look at how extensive this could get, have a look at a game like the settlers (If you know it), there's many jobs you can give the people, forming a large web, that becomes the economy.

for this to work in EL, you'd probably need an NPC in charge of each area, talk to them to get the work, sit down, work with a timer like harvesting has, once your 'shift' is up, you can get another shift, or leave. any work not done by players is done by invisible NPCs, so there's still enough bread to get dumped at the lightpole on IP 8^)

 

I realise I may be focusing a bit much on what's actually useful out of the hobby, not looking at it as just something we can do... but newbies will probably look at it the same way anyway.

 

being able to form groups outside of the guild lines could be good, for example, the people interested in astronomy could have a group, they chat, put together articles for a player based EL newsletter.

ooh, that brings me to another point. I know at the moment there's the eternal sun (I think that's the name), but how about if people could sumbit entries through a more official method, then whoever could be working as editors, entries get a yes/no, and what's accepted goes in as a type of book, disposable because it would be replaced the next day or week or whatever with newer columns.

 

 

<edit>

wow, i took far too long typing this up, some of the ideas were already posted before I finished!

Edited May 10, 2005 by ttlanhil

[Gunslingers]

In my opinion, the game needs to be tipped upside down

 

By that, I mean skills need to be less important, and RP'ing brought to the front of the game. There is no real story or backbone to the game, other than what little is offered through the quests - and to be honest, how many players are doing the quest for the story, the feel of the game, and how many are just doing it for cheaper leather/wine etc and not taking much notice in whats being said?

 

If the game was more RP based from the very beginning, you could have designated guides (either player or NPC) that will automatically pm a person a few minutes after they have logged on for the first time. The guide would give basic instructions for the player like "Hey, you should head to the Isla Prima Tavern, I hear there is a party and everyone is invited!" or "Hi, would you like to meet some fellow Dwarves? If so head on over to the Camp fire to the east, there is a Dwarf gathering going on right now!". There would have to be some pre-programmed bots like Prattler that talk quite often, if no players are free to be at the locations given out by the guide.

 

Obviously thats just the beginning, but it gets the new players DOING something straight away, rather than wandering around, exploring and then coming back to beam asking Lyanna what there is to do in the game

 

The game should be more like this.. there should be little RP'ing events popping up all the time, and inter-linked RP'ing events, such as LV's quiz nights at the WSC hall, or if you dont prefer quizzes, come along to the Tarsengaard gardens, where there will be light refreshments, along with light entertainment (players telling jokes/stories etc - see JaneMuffin's recent Bardic event).

 

If enough players got behind the idea of actually wanting to RP, these events could and should be held often, varying from basic Bardic style events, to actual events that you NEED a skill for, an example would be crafting events that get people together to make dis rings which would then be handed over to a group of fighters for a fee. This can be applied to virtually anything in the game, and makes use of the skills - if there was a specific channel for players to place their orders, such as someone wanting 100 Titanium bars, a regular RP event holder could set up a quick RP event for players to mine coal, tit ore and make fe. It only takes a few minutes to organise a few people into groups.. it needs varying levels of skill/nexuses, and it gets people involved in activities. There should be some sort of reward for completing the task, but this could be arranged by the person who placed the order, and the event holder.

 

I could go on with different RP'ing ideas all day, but thats not really the whole point of this thread. I do think though, that there needs to be some kind of activity to get a new player actively doing something from when they log in, and be guided through what they are doing. Having a Tutorial NPC with a quest is good, but when I mention it to new players, they either seem to have problems completing the quest, or they dont have the time/patience to goto the locations given in the quest. what you really need a group of players actively seeking new players and just talking to them, making them feel welcome in the game, and get them to do something - essentialy, taking away the need for someone to ask "what is there to do in this game?".

 

At the moment, the game is too much skill based, and thats why so many people get bored, some dont log-in much, and some leave for short intervals, others permanently. You can only go for so long before levelling a skill takes quite a while to get to the next level, or requires a book or books for you to be able to carry on levelling - there is no other options for players to do anything, you either level or you talk (some clever-heads do both!)

[Placid]

Grunslingers, I do agree about the RP'ing ideas. Thats in essence what I was saying in my first post.

 

We all need to understand that this is still Beta (don't say it, I know what your thinking ), and these sort of threads actually help the development.

[Lyanna]

Actually, all we need is just one person. Just ONE person - to say "I volunteer to commit myself to building up a Live Events team" (like what Gunslingers described). I would do it myself, if I could, but I'm too bogged down with work on storylines and quests to be able to run it effectively. I can try to give all the support I can, though. It's always been part of my vision for storylines and quests eventually - to be able to create the world that Gunslingers described. (*cough* Storylines POD)

 

All it really needs is one person - to take responsibility for pulling together all those different efforts out there into one unified whole. We have all the necessary and willing people. Plenty of RPers, plenty of budding event organisers and sponsors out there, plenty of NHs willing to announce events, and plenty of resources to help... but they're all scattered and going in different directions.

 

We need someone to unite them and lead them, to make a coordinated, concerted effort at turning our EL's world values upside-down. Is anyone up to the challenge?

 

-Lyn-

[Placid]

Your right Lyanna, but will it stay?

 

*pokes the community representitives*

[Earl]

I remember, ages ago, I was asked if I wanted to join a group to that effect. However at the time I had just stockpiled enough gold to go for level 40 manu so I declined.

 

Right now I don't have time to even be online.

 

I feel a little bad now thinking that I could have said yes and this issue could have been resolved months ago.

 

Maybe there should be events that intentionally do not have any prize except a message for the world to hear: Let it be known that PlayerName has championed this event.

 

Something else that might add to early role playing would be a cauldron site, use some sunflowers on cauldron, use some wine bottles on cauldron, now the cauldron is full of minor healing potions. Use icon the cauldron to drink directly, use vial with cauldron to fill the vial.

 

As a possible hobby... use the look icon on a monster or item, maybe even player to aquire the ability to create street paintings of the item, monster or player. It roleplays the role of either an artist wanting to share experiences or someone begging constructively. It street art became associated with begging the silent artist in the right place may have more success than someone hanging out at storage whinging.

[rasberrybeard]

There are some very valid points here, however I have seen a surge of interst in the game even just since I have been here. There are multiple contests within the few hours I am online and more and more players are settling in for the long ride, I think in the end the players will make the game more story driven, because from what I have seen the devs do an excellent job maintaining the game... a not so excellent job implenenting innovative features (ei: major events, plotlines etc). It can be done however, if you play the Matrix Online then you know this, the story unfolds and the players all have a part in it, even have the ability to change it, sure it would take work, so find someone who has no life that could do this .

[Gunslingers]

You'd be surprised Scarab, at how many players dont settle in for the long ride as it were - the first 30 minutes of gameplay in any game is what makes or breaks a person staying or leaving, and this is what needs to be looked at with EL.. if we can suck them in, they'll never want to leave

 

We need someone to unite them and lead them, to make a coordinated, concerted effort at turning our EL's world values upside-down. Is anyone up to the challenge?

 

-Lyn-

160883[/snapback]

 

I am more than willing to step up to the challenge, and work with anyone else who is up for the long haul in bringing in more RP to the game. There are enough people who I know would be able to provide a lot of information and help towards RP'ing and Live Events.

 

We've got to start somewhere, and do it, not just discuss it I've seen some great storylines and events being told both on the forums and in game. I'm sure there would be no shortage of people wanting to set up live events, we just need to get a team together to facilitate and have somewhere to start planning and organising.

[JaneMuffin]

Well my RL family always calls me the "Tour Guide" I guess it's something like an event organiser

 

I am willing to take the challange.

 

My only limitation is time. I am only able to be online after 8pm PST (without interuption) til about 2 or 3 am PST.

 

But my weekends are open all day long.

 

I would love to work on this project with Guns and who ever else wants to join in

 

JaneMuffin

[Lyanna]

Then I'll leave it to you, Gunslingers and Jane. You can obviously start by contacting people like QueenJenny about her workshops, shasso about the EAF championship, Hadodej (who wants to organise a Lightweight class for the EAF championship), and your own events.

 

You could find out which of the NHs and mods are available and willing to broadcast events like this...

 

Then you could go on to looking at the guilds that promote RP-ing, like Bane, and Ox, and seeing if you can get some RP-events going. If the Actor's Clan founded by Wolf_Lord/NeoSeS is still around, you could maybe work with them too...

 

After that, you could try getting Nidan or Bongo or antiroot to merge the codes for their respective bots together and design some bot-based games or quests.

 

There's a lot of interesting stuff out there to use! These are just suggestions I can think of off the top of my head.

 

Good luck!

 

-Lyn-

Edited May 11, 2005 by Lyanna

[Mireille]

For me EL is boring, but in the same way as fishing is boring - it makes me feel relaxed. I just sit all day in mines and regularly click the Mix button. When I'm really fed up I go and fight some gobs or heal n00bz0rz at t3h beam. And I like it...