Auto-manufacture button

[hhip]

What a about an addition button in the manufacture windows (called "Repeated Mix" or sth) that would just keep mixing the same ingredient until one of them is lacking, or not enough food? A "Stop Mixing" button would be usefull too... This would spare so many mouse buttons for us poor players :-) And clicking in sync w/ ur manufacturing speed is kind of boring. I thk everybody would like it and I cant thk of a disadvantage...

 

my 2 cents...

hhip

[Herny]

i can think of a disadvantage, it would completely deplete the point of the rule against macroers! come on, auto mix? go macro and get yourself banned, the rules are the rules and if roja/ent want to change them, then you can post your idea again <_<

 

now stop being lazy and think about why things are the way they are, you'll be enlightened

[hhip]

1) if u thk carefully about it, you'll see that making 100% boring stuff automatic, you will actually reduce the temptation to go the macro way. Would you like to have to click once for each item you harvest? Why should manufacturing be any different?

 

2) Your point that it would render macroing easier is irrelevent. If someone wants to go the macro way, it is completely trivial to have ur macro click repeatedly instead of once.

 

3) C'mon. The rules are here to rule what players do. Not to rule what feature might be implemented.

 

 

You are not convincing me at all...

[Herny]

making 100% of the boring stuff automatic would make 100% of the automatic stuff legal and once again, what part of not for the game are you not getting?

 

besides, if this goes forward, it'll create a landslide until eventually players just have to make the char and everything from walking to talking is completely done with one single button

 

why are you so darn lazy?

 

the rules are here to be followed and if your idea is implemented the rule would lose credibility

 

reduce the temptation to go the macro way? rofl, it would reduce the reason to go the macro way because the game already macroes for you! my god... <_<

[ssjgohan]

hipp i already put this here once and i'm telling you don't hope for it

[Leeloo]

making 100% of the boring stuff automatic would make 100% of the automatic stuff legal and once again, what part of not for the game are you not getting?

The "who breaks his mouse first" part?

[Herny]

breaking your mouse by left clicking a lot? not unless you're doing something harsh to your mouse

[Placid]

Repetitive strain injury is more likely.

 

Hhip, about clicking for each harvest....you obviously havent been here that long, we used to have to do it

[Herny]

yep, a few months ago, it changed like a week after a joined (joined the game, not the forums)

Edited February 27, 2005 by Herny

[hhip]

Herny, i'm growing tired of your shortminded answers, to me and to other ppl in this forum. If I follow ur logic, in addition to clicking for each item you harvest, u would probably have to remove the path finding algorithm that is so prone to help macroing. Let's have the charater go in a strait line from where it is to where it wanna go, stoping at each obstacle.

Please provide proper argument against my suggestion.

 

ssjgohan: i thought so, but i didnt manage to find your post, reason why i cared to suggest...

 

Leeloo: lol!

 

Placid: yeah i've not been here for a long time indeed, and i thought that things must have been a bit more boring in the "good" ol' days. My guess is that when they introduced the automatic harvesting feature, shortminded refractory ppl shouted to whoever wanted to ear that it was going to be the revenge of the macroers. For this reason, thking ppl implemented the falling wall and the rewarding mother nature to limit macroing and improve the fun. Of course, try now to suggest to go back to the 1click1item harvest system, u wont get many supporters. Someone suggested somewhere else cut or burns during manufacturing. Good idea to transpose automatic harvesting to automatic manufacturing.

[Derin]

I think the manufacturing window is fine as it is.

 

It is used for a lot of stuff and at times you don't want it to go rampant by autoclicking.

 

If there were 2 different buttons, well, then maybe I would say it's a good idea.

[duran]

besides, if this goes forward, it'll create a landslide until eventually players just have to make the char and everything from walking to talking is completely done with one single button

 

heh, there is a game that allready does this. its 99% offline (you can log your progress on a website), its called progressquest. basicly its a progressbar connected to a button and some random outputs

[inkydoo]

I don't really think this is a major change, especially since hhip indicated that it would stop auto-mixing when you run out of food. The reduction in clicks depends on what item your mixing, but once you're at a mid level, it's probably only saving you 5 or 6 clicks. As such, I don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other.

 

So why post?

 

Because I think everyone could use to understand what makes a strong argument and what doesn't. As such, here's a webpage that talks about logical fallacies. Herny should pay particular attention to 'Slippery Slope", which is what his "next you'll want a button that walks and talks and does everything for you" argument is, and ad hominem (or attacking the person) which is what "why are you so lazy" is.

[pigpen]

I've been an admin/coder on a couple muds, and taken a lot of player suggestions for those, and I've come to expect a ton of 2 types of comments:

 

1. Asking for a feature that doesn't actually make the game any better, just easier for the person making the suggestion.

2. Attacking an idea because it's not what's already being done.

 

#2 I think we can all see happening a few times on this topic. This feature seems to have the same the same benefit for all players (unlike the ones that say 'we need more spells/equipment/quests for my level/race/shoe size'). So I don't see #1 happening on this topic. In my (limited) experience, that means we're likely looking at a decent idea, so why not give it a closer look?

 

Requiring player interaction instead of automation usually only has one valid reason: to prevent cheating. So the question is, would automation allow a player to cheat, or would it allow a player to gain an unfair advantage. Secondary to that is this: would it remove an important part of the game?

 

Obviously a feature that automates scouting and fighting would take something away from the game. But what does this feature take away? Clicks. That's it. A click is not a game, it's not a side-quest, and it's not a puzzle. It's a finger twitch. The feature doesn't remove the need for food, ingredients, and whatever else. It only removes some of the clicks. Sounds to me like a clear case of a good idea that does nothing but improve the interface. It has no effect at all on the game itself, so in-game arguments about what the feature might 'lead to' shouldn't stop it from being imped.

[The_Pale_Elf]

I'm seeing the suggestion, and it seems to me that if harvesting was once click click click... then maybe there is room for a change in manufacturing to reduce repetitive clicking. To this end I would say that requests from players like this are perfectly reasonable, and maybe if enough people want this changed, it will be so. Much like harvesting changed to single click and wait, manufacturing window could do the same. The big issue here seems to be "till you run out of food". What this says to me is that you can automate making essences, you know, those things that people are complaining about only getting 3gc for? Maybe some potions could be done 5-10 at a time. Beyond that, items take a lot of food to make. Let's see you mass produce suits of armor using this tentative feature... Right, you can't, because it would stop as soon as you get hungry and can't make anythign anyway. I don't see the harm, if only for the simple fact that you would use food when using this feature.

 

Herny, even I found youre responses to be more attacking the idea than really helping the discussion.

 

I personally absolutely disagree that the manu window is fine as is. The issue tho, is programming... Since I'd say it needs to be replaced with context menus, pictoral selections on a little screen that you select to pick what you want to make, instead of pouring everything from flowers to leather to bars to vials into one pot and see what comes out. And of course, this would take a lot of drawing, programming, etc. So the manu window is as good as we're going to get for now. But it's far from 'good enough', imo.

[FlyingSod]

I think its a good idea. Reduce the clik whenever possible says I. The making of things is one of the last bastions of "clik for xp" I see in the game. You dont have to clik the item for each harvested item. You dont have to clik the enemy for each sword swing in a fight. You don't have to clik the book each minute to get your research points when reading. you dont have to clik the edge of the screen continuously to walk a distance. A great many things in the game are or have become automated. I have seen no serious reason why this should not be so for making things.

 

I dont even have a problem with the eating of food being automated for the making of things. There is still the more meaningfull limit of how much you can carry. It's not like someone is going to be able to load up on material and food then clik and go AFK to come back 2 hours later and by 5 levels higher. The making of things will still require the complex actions of unloading the goods and reloading with raw materials. It won't even appreciably speed things up because the time to make each item would remain as is. Changing the making of things and even the eating of food while making things to an automated process will only REMOVE SOME OF THE TEDIUM from the game. And that's a good thing.

[Ruln]

Potions don't require food, at least not the lower level ones. Meaning this would be a much greater benifit to the potion maker, right?

 

Otherwise it seems like a reasonable idea to me. Most things take so much food to make that it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway and would reduce a tiny bit the chance of injury. And as somebody who has had tendonitas in both hands/writs and constantly skate on the edge of having it again I view this as a good thing.

[pigpen]

Seems to me that food isn't nearly as much an issue as the ingredients. When you've used up your ingredients, you're done. When you run out of food points, you're done. The only proposed difference is whether you have to click for every item.