Rabbitman

Wizzy's idea would be great if we had the player base to support it. Unfortunately I just don't see it at the moment. Maybe it would stabilize after a year or 2, but imagine trying to find enough pka, he, and srs to support the current fighting community with the current rounder community. I know I would not play if I had to harvest and mix those items for my own use.

You could also try wearing ninja cloak and cape of passive camo on alt. I believe those affect the difficulty to hit which should help you get more exp. On the other part about training a/d, the benefits of keeping physique low for training decrease once you get past forest chims as most monsters have high enough toughness and armour that you will need to train with a weapon to do damage to get attack exp anyway. RM

There you go, I voted abc

Why not just allow people to choose an instance of any level to go to for this? i.e. Change the a/d bounds to recommended levels. Lower the number of bosses or boss drops if you are higher a/d than the range you select. If you are lower than the range you select increase the number of bosses or drops. This way people can choose whatever they want to do.

I would imagine if this were added as an automated feature, there would be a few fake copies of the map (similar to invance iscalrith) rather than using the real map.

To be honest I am split on this suggestion. My initial reaction is it would probably be good for the game, but I'm not sure. So instead I will just post my thoughts. First the reasons I don't think it will ruin the game: 1. EL is already pay to win (either $$ or time). 2. Radu sells gold in the shop which can be used to buy hydro bars directly, so this doesn't really affect availability to p2p players. 3. Radu can balance their cost versus how many hydro you can get so it doesn't kill hydro price. Reason I think it may help the game: 1. For years hydro WAS the EL economy. Now iron ore->steel bars->s2e have very little value since people don't run hydro. This has stagnated the EL economy more than it was already. Adding a way for people to use these ingredients again will encourage trade again. Reason I think it may hurt the game: 1. The rosto market got really messed up when Haidir passes were added because another highly consumable shop-only item was added which divided the p2w crowd's $$. Adding another highly consumable item is likely to do the same thing to rostogols again. This would severely hurt the game if it happened. Rabbitman

To be honest I am split on this quest. It is one of the few quests that are actually difficult to complete. On the other hand it can be so incredibly random and that is a huge deterant for many players. I don't know a better way to balance the quests within current game mechanics. Pretty much every change people have suggested with these quests makes them trivial to complete.

Wizzy did something like this on main server ~9 months ago. The contest lasted 2 weeks and had a total of 9 participants. It was a fun experiment but there are a few things we learned from it. 1. People who no-life the contest get a significant advantage. 2. People who spend $$$ get a significant advantage. 3. People who have huge storage assets are at an advantage. A few changes I think would make the contest better by mitigating some of these advantages. Since it takes place on a separate server, we can play with initial conditions a bit: 1. All players start at 30 a/d. 2. All players start with all magic sigils. 3. Everyone starts with 100kgc in storage. We can also play with economy/npcs: 1. Binding stones, rostogol stones, serpent stones, enrichment stones, sold at npc (10k each). 2. Mirror/bp/nmt/warlock capes are sold at an npc (10k each). 3. Diss rings sold at npc (1k each...yes 1k each ). 4. Day stones sold at npc (50k each). As far as the start time goes, I think it would be better to open server on a Monday, then have the pk contest on Sunday. The 2 week contest felt really long and gave the no-lifers a huge advantage. Limiting the contest to one Monday-Sunday stretch should help with this. Players should be able to pay a few haidir passes or rostogol stones or something on main to create a character on the tournament server (ideally automated process). RM Edit: Link to wizzy's contest: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=60058

Rabbitman < 140 a/d. I'll tank it if no one else will.

I mean mechanically you could get the desired effect by giving it 1 crit to hit, 100 crit to damage, 7/179 a/d and 2000 Might. That would make it hit once every 100 hits and deal around 400-500 damage a hit. The only part that wouldn't work would be not going to us on death. As vanyel pointed out though, people would just fight it naked. Or have 4 naked fighting and 4 geared. What reasons do people give for not doing invasions now? Not profitable? Stale/Boring/too easy/too hard? Inappropriate mob composition? No invasions close to their level? First taking a poll to see why people don't go would probably be more beneficial to the game. FYI I'm just throwing ideas out there since I haven't played EL actively in 0.5-1yr.

I have to admit this is probably the most p2w and worst idea for EL I've ever seen.

I like this idea, would definitely help new, lower level and occasional players. The general premise is good. The problem is pretty much anything for which you need a rostogol requires at least human 6 (great swords) or even 7 (scythe). For this idea to be beneficial some of the lower nexus items will need to be buffed to be more useful or the human nexus requirements lowered on some items.

If I get this right, so people selling gcs on unofficial is mucking up the market and we can blame Mr. 28m for the rise in rosto price. Correct? That probably doesn't help, but I don't think that is the main issue. There has always been an alternate market in EL, and it has always had better rates than the in game shop. For years people still bought items from Radu as a safe way to buy gold or to support the game etc. For most of EL's life rostogol stones were the best gc/$$ from Radu. There have been two major price hikes in rostogols in the last few years which occurred whenever this was no longer the case. The first came when haidir passes were introduced. This is because they ended up being a better gc/$$ for a time which made people buy less rostogols. Supply and demand kicked in and the rostogol price rose to match the gc/$$ rate of haidir passes. (40k->60k) This most recent price hike is due to Radu selling gold directly. Now there are three major items in contention for players to buy from the shop: rostogols, haidir passes, and gold coins. However, this is not the same as the previous hike. You also have to consider that buying gold directly from Radu means you don't have to wait while rostogols or haidir passes sell. The gc/$$ rate on rostogols and haidirs must be significantly better gc/$$ than straight buying gold to get players to go back to buying them. Thus the price hiking on rostogol stones lately (60k->100k). RM

If I were a new player and I saw what rostogol stones did, their current price, and the approximate gc/time rate for a new player I would uninstall the game within a week. On the other hand, the best I can tell most of the $$ income of EL comes from recurring players, not new players. So this might be a moot point. On the topic of the actual thread, based on the gc/time rate without instances or bot shenanigans I would say ~20k per rostogol seems reasonable to me. That's around an hour of making gc for the average player per death. I don't know what a good solution for the EL economy is...if there even is one at this point. I would expect if the find rate on bindings/rostogols/enrichments was increased 3-5x, and the mix rate on enriched essences was brought to about 1/5k across the board things would start to stabilize. But with the number of nice xp sinks for rare ings I don't know if this would actually make a big difference these days. RM

Perhaps it's just me (and remembering when Rosts were more like 20K) but these two statements just don't seem to go together. I wonder if net income for Entropy would go up or down if Main server Rosts were $1 as they are for the PK server? Would the increased usage (and loss) track the decreased price? The real question is, would $1 rostogols be enough to bring a significant number of players back/help keep new players longer? Imo, it would probably be enough for some but not enough to offset the decreased cost at the shop. If EL is to get more players it needs to offer fun content you can't get in other games. If the fun content were good enough, people would come and spend $$ at the shop just like in 2006-2008.

For the benefit of no mirror the hp given should be less. Maybe 100?

All, Here is a new instance style I wanted to propose and get some feedback from the community. The hope is this would not replace current instances but just add a new style of instance for players to do for fun and drops. The general idea is that mobs spawn in a map all at once, and your goal as a team is to kill as much as you can before the time/your resources run out. If you want bosses, you need to try to fight them while there are other things around as well. Creatures will respawn if the mob count gets low enough. The general style would be independent of a/d range, although I would assume the actual mobs/bosses that spawn would change for various levels. Eternal Lands Instance Type 2 (tldr) Instance details: - Maximum instance time: 90 minutes - Randomized mobs spawn in map based on a/d range. Note: Bosses are mixed in with normal mobs as well - If mob count gets below a randomized threshold between (50-100) more mobs will spawn - The instance will only end when less than 3 players remain in the map (either through death with no rosto or teleport out via ring or teleport to portals room) or 90 minutes have passed Map details: - Multiple map types (~1-10) - Full arena with no cover - Tree fort style like willowvine forest - Arena with choke point - Cliffs style like bethel cliffs - Dungeon with cages - Map type not linked to combat range (Think similar to invance map being used for all invance ranges) - Map type randomly chosen at start of instance (So players do not know which one they will be in when they start) - Players enter in a separate room with a one way portal to instance map - Server will tell them which map type in which they have arrived - On death with rosto, players will return to staging area

Well, okay then. Somehow I doubt much will be "re-balanced" in the old ones. I've thought about it a bit more and I don't think the specific instances I mentioned here would work well for lower range fighters. The way this is designed players would be in multi-combat for much of the instance and depending on which map you are in there may or may not be places to hide from the mobs. As far as instances with less dedicated fighters go, I think map design plays a key role. Specifcally, the maps need to be designed with choke points in mind so that teams can funnel the creatures and multi them if they play smart. The mountain and swamp instance maps have a fair amount of areas like this, see the various bowls creatures spawn. Sadly the ice instance and wtf instance don't really have many choke points for creatures. If someone good with the map editor wants to adjust the ice instance a bit I can give suggestions to make the map itself a bit more balanced....however, Radu would still need to be convinced if it were to make it to main server.

To be honest, my original vision of this instance was designed for experienced teams and fighters in each range. Of course the general idea for the instance doesn't really require that to be the case, but that was my thought. If this were added as an alternative for stronger fighters, the other instances could be re-balanced more toward all-rounder builds. As far as using combat level instead of a/d for instances goes, in theory I am for this. However in practice there are a few problems with it. First combat level is a hidden parameter in the game. If we are going to divide instances by combat level, players need to know what their combat level is. Second, combat level only takes into account a/d and select cross attributes, and (at least at higher a/d) weighs things oddly. As an example, imagine 2 players who are both 150 a/d but with different attributes: Bill 150/150 a/d with 48/48/48/48/48/48 from bought pp. Joe 150/150 a/d, overall 165 with capped nexus at 40 with zero bought pp. A possible build for Joe without any perks or bought pp would be: 48/48/16/4/16/16 Bill's combat level is 393, whereas Joe's is 334. That's only a difference of 59; whereas the number pp different is 140. For their CL to be same with the builds I mentioned above, Bill's a/d would need to be ~110.I guarantee you someone who is experienced in fighting will have an easier time meleeing a giant on Joe than on Bill if Bill's a/d was 110 with capped attributes. If combat level is to be used to divide instances, the premise needs to be rethought, and it needs to be expanded to consider other skills as well (ranging, magic, summoning). Indeed, the focus on a/d alone does not work very well as one easily sees when the PP are not spent on combat-relevant attributes and perks. The game has, however, already another (badly documented) means to measure combat capability: the combat level. That seems to take into account physique and coordination as well. Maybe this (or something along this line) can be used? This may work - for those builds which focus exclusively on fighting and which also got enough gc to buy the most pro gear. If you don't do so, it's already hard to impossible to beat a feros, fluffy or white tiger at a/d 80. Thus Aislin's suggestion to go by the actual combat capability seems to me much more fun, appropriate and fruitful. A small note on this. If you have a strong understanding of the combat system, you can do so much more than you think with lower a/d/pp than people think. My <60 alt can do feros/fluffy/wt fairly well in steel set with a holam and scythe if I need and he has 0 bought pp.

I can see where you are coming from with this, but I'd like to clarify on your first two points. To the first point, it entirely depends on how the balancing would be done by level. Ideally the instance would be balanced that multiple waves would really only happen if the team was very large and organized because the difficulty on these instances would be much higher than traditional instances. My general though on creature composition for these instances would contain four classes of creatures in the instance: 1. Below level 2. On level 3. Above level 4. Bosses Note: Not every creature listed in 1-4 for any of the instances I mention would spawn every time. It would be randomized such that sometimes you will have the potential for a much harder instance than others. Sometimes you will have the potential for a much more profitable than others. If we take the uncapped range as a case study (designed for say 150-180 a/d), the base creatures for the instance in each range could potentially be something like: 1. Yeti, bears, white tigers, hawks, Cockatrice, Arctic Chimerans 2. Little blue dragons, little pink dragons, giants, nasparliu 3. Red Dragons, Black Dragons, Ice Dragons, Blue dragons 4. Castellan, Mare Bulangiu, Milf, Choco Orc I've played on some of the strongest characters in the game, and I'll let you know that trying to melee multiple big dragons down at a time burns many resources and will get you killed on critical hits if you aren't careful. Remember, this instance would be limited resources, so if someone goes into the middle and tries to macho a boss with dragons on their back they will run out of resources before killing the boss. As an example, every once and awhile high levelled characters will start at the Mare Bulangiu spawn in the 145-200 invance to try and kill them right off. Invariably the team gets swamped by ice dragons and giants by the time one is dead even with 4-5 characters each 165+ a/d helping. If the team manages to actually kill the MB (which does not always happen), pretty much every player there needs to restock after because they have burned through all the he/sr they brought with them. I would imagine this instance would work the same way. I would imagine even a team of ~5 characters all 170+ a/d would have difficulty trying to get a Castellan killed in this instance with all the other creatures around...But it would be a really fun goal to aspire to which would keep them coming back trying again and again. As a second example, if the designed range was say 140-160 a/d, the possible creatures may look something like this: 1. Yeti, Frost Trolls, Mountain Chimerans, bears, white tigers, hawks 2. Cockatrice, Arctic Chimerans, nasparliu 3. Little blue dragons, giants, Red Dragons 4. Milf, Choco Orc, Jegos, Polyphemus For a third example let's go a bit lower and say the designed range was 60-80 a/d, the possible creatures may look something like this: 1. Hawks, Male Ogres, Armed Male Orcs, Armed Female Orcs, Male Orcs, Female Orcs 2. Cyclops, Feros, Fluffy Rabbits, white tigers 3. Melteans, Chitros, Desert Chimerans 4. Scarba, Japitas, Polyphemus, Dilimac To point two, we can argue about the number of mobs dying in these instances may be higher than in normal instances which may increase drops, but I think if it were designed as I suggested the number of bosses killed would be comparable to traditional instances (2-3). I might be wrong on this, in which case it would need to be rebalanced of course, but that is my estimation based on a lot of experience. As an aside, remember compared to bosses normal creatures really don't drop much at all in instances (invasions are different due to tokens/10k drops/etc). If you think about it, in 120-200 instance 45 giants and 90 nasparliu together on average should drop ~60kgc which approximately matches the drop from a single boss from the rest of the instance. As an aside, is style of instance is always something that can be added in an initial form on test server and balanced before coming to main.

I agree with the general sentiment of this post. Below I'll comment on some specific items I'd like to see changed as far as drops are concerned. At bottom of post I'll talk about the WTF instance specifically since it brings in a ton of gc. Please note these don't really apply to any one instance range: enriched health essence - I would not recommend enriched health essence as a drop as now days health essence are a nice gc sink since players buy them from the NPC quite often. Thus adding this as a drop would counteract the reason for this change. enriched fire essence - Yes, more and more sinks for this item keep entering the game via Daritha, which has really dried up the pool of this item. This is (almost) a base ingredient for most content in the game and as such I believe the price should be more available than it is currently. binding stone - Rarity on these is comparable to where they have been in the last few years so I don't necessarily see a need to change them. However, if they did cost ~5k/gc each I think overall game economy would be more balanced. capes - Combat useful capes that are not sold by npc (other than nmt) seem to be going up in price (mirror/bp). Adding these as a rare drop would be nice. scythe/gsm - Adding a sell to npc option for these would be good (although that also counteracts the point of lowering gc drops). rops - With the addition of invasion killer perk these have become used again. Adding some of these as a rare drop would be nice. oranges - Remove automatic orange drops from choco orc/bulangiu. Maybe make it drop random chance of <none>/orange/grapes/pear/banana (chance left to right 25/25/12.5/6.5/6.5). perk removals - Remove these as a rare drop (I'm looking at you MB/MILF), or randomize the perk removal drop. attribute removals - Letting people change builds would be nice, adding these as a drop would make them more accessible to people. invasionmeters - Highly consumable item when hidden invasions are occuring, would be nice to have as a rare drop. Would also lower the amount of eme that get removed from game this way. daily cooldown reducers - Highly consumable item that should find a balance between benefit/cost if it was a drop. gold/silver rings - Fighters get as drop->sell/trade to mixers->nice addition to economy. matter conglomerates - Cabbage makes people strong and also fighters->harvesters->mixers->nice balance to economy. wolframite/hydrogenium/dvarium ore - Not huge amounts, but if they are a drop they might be worth mixing the bars again (wolfram bars are very not worth it atm...adding wolframite as a drop could help lower price on those bars to help make great swords mixable again). horse whistles - Adding them as normal drop to troll/cyclops/ice dragon was nice. Another highly consumable item which would be a nice drop. Vial mold/alembic - Sell to mixers let them enjoy and not poof efe to mix them . WTF instance specifics: Typically brings in ~800-900kgc in straight gold drops. If you range everything in the instance you might spend ~175kgc on pk arrows at npc. We'll say worst case WTF instance nets ~600kgc entering the game per team per instance. I'd say there are at least 5 teams which go at least 1x/week. Right there is 3,000,000 gc entering the game each week just from this instance. I would say this is a huge contribution to game inflation. I think a good start to modify Castellan's drops such that he has 2 categories (high probability and low probability). The high probability you are guaranteed 3 with chance to get up to 5. The low probabilty has a chance similar to nexus removals currently. Note the numbers on the high probability are primarily to keep general drop value the same as curretly with 0 gc drop, but they would probably need to be adjusted. High probability drops: 100 Rops (~40,000gc) 100 Wolframite Ore (~50,000gc) 50 Hydrogenium Ore (~75,000gc) 50 Matter Conglomerates (~60,000gc) 4 Serpent Stones (~40,000gc) 6 Enriched Fire Essences (~90,000gc) 1 Mirror Cape (~15,000gc) 4 Enriched Magic Essences (~80,000gc) 6 Oranges (~60,000gc) 3 Grapes (~75,000gc) 2 Pears (~50,000gc) 3 Banana (~75,000gc) 3 Invasion meters (~60,000gc) 3 Binding Stones (~72,000gc) 1 Day stone (~50,000-250,000gc) 2-3 Attribute removal stones (~10,000-60,000gc) Low Probabilty 10 Daily cooldown reducers (~240,000gc) 1 Attribute reset stone (~500,000gc) 1 "Good" Perk removal stone (~400,000gc) [by "Good" I mean to this point shop only]. 1 Nexus removal (~1,000,000gc) Just my thoughts. Rabbitman

Go forth and breed the next generation of ELers! Sad you're leaving, but hope you have a good time. Keep in touch!

Hello, Since I moved the data connection with my wireless provider falls onto an ip ban occadionally (forum only not game). Is there a way to whitelist a forum account? RM

If you haven't made a character yet, now is the time! A quick start guide for you to hit 40-50 by saturday: 1. Get human 4 and the rest of your initial pp in coord. 2. Buy magic sigils, spam noob heal from now on whether you need to heal or not until you can cast shield. 3. Get mortos or aluwen and take unolas. If you dont know how to get to the magic god without teleporting, ask a friend. 4. Do some novac quests until you can train wolves. 5. You should be able to take negs, so take power hungry, antisocial, Scotty died, and icd (you can remove later but early pp help alot). Raise your coord to 20, phys to 8, and take some will. 6. Go to haidir and uses passes until you get raccoons or sprites. Kill them but do not turn in yet. You shouldn't need many passes since there are few options available. 7. Go to daritha and use passes until you get tit chain or tit shorts, but agan don't turn in. 8. Wait for tzu day this saturday (and send caduceus with thank you spam xD) 9. If you are bored waiting for tzu, train wolvea or goblins, or work on novac. 10. On tzu, do darithas buy xp quest (Not daily). 11. On tzu, do dagger training quest. 12. Now turn in dailies, whicher gives lower xp/level first (probably raccoons unles you accepted a bad daritha). You should be close to 40 a/d and ok magic level with just a few hours of prep time. There is also supposed to be a magic day saturday, so if you have extra time you might want to get shield/MI ings ready. Note: if a mod wants to delete because of quest content, please edit post instead ^^.

Some creatures do have varying degrees of weakness to each element. For example, ice dragon has cold resistence but is weak to fire. MB has cold/heat resistence but is weak to radiation, same with phantom warriors. That said these resistances are usually very small...on the order of 10. If elemental magic spells were added these would probably need to be buffed, which would then require examining melee damage with and without fa for balance etc. It is odd that mages only have 1 viable damage spell, but not something I see changing in the forseeable future for EL.