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#1 Vegar

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:30 AM

The following discussion started in this thread, after this post initiating it:
http://www.eternal-l...p...st&p=401672

An admin can, if he or she wishes (and if it's possible), move the related posts here.

If we have an open bug tracking system, do you think anyone who submits bugs will check to see if a bug has been submited before?
Do you think they will not post stupid stuff such as: "Bug: Doesn't work"?

Yes, they will, but not more than they currently are. And when it happens, the developers have administrative access to the report, they can change the title of the bug report, they can link it to other bug reports if it's a duplicate, etc.

With the forums, we can at least get more details from the users, ask follow up questions, and so on. Personally I think the forums way is more flexible.

Any bug tracking system can do this just as easily as a forum.

Edited by Vegar, 02 December 2007 - 03:35 AM.


#2 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:36 AM

With the forums, we can at least get more details from the users, ask follow up questions, and so on. Personally I think the forums way is more flexible.

Any bug tracking system can do this just as easily as a forum.

If not better, because the content is relevant and you don't get as much clutter.

Bug tracking is an integral part of software development, and making it easy for developers and users to work together is as important as writing good code in the first place. I think EL would benefit greatly if a bug manager was appointed, and something like Mantis was used. Forums are not meant for this; they're as flexible as a concrete wall.

Edited by Placid, 02 December 2007 - 03:38 AM.


#3 Entropy

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:44 AM

Well, in case you didn't know, we already have a bug tracking system in the Berlios project page: https://developer.be.../?group_id=1256

Pretty much no one uses that system, and I'd rather not force our users to have to go there and submit bugs, when for most of them it is considerably easier to submit on the forums.

And BTW, how many MMOs have a specialized bug tracking software, rather than just using the forums?

#4 Vegar

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:11 AM

Well, in case you didn't know, we already have a bug tracking system in the Berlios project page: https://developer.be.../?group_id=1256

That's one crappy bug tracker. It lacks a lot, if not most, of the common bug tracking features.

Pretty much no one uses that system, and I'd rather not force our users to have to go there and submit bugs, when for most of them it is considerably easier to submit on the forums.

And BTW, how many MMOs have a specialized bug tracking software, rather than just using the forums?

Here's a couple of well-known open-source MMOs using proper bug tracking software:
-Planeshift: http://www.hydlaa.co...yspray_upgrade/
-Daimonin: http://www.daimonin....p...main&task=0

#5 Entropy

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:16 AM

We have Mantis too: https://developer.be...y_view_page.php
I think that requires an extra registration for everyone to submit bugs (not sure).

Anyway, if you feel like setting up a bug trackig system for us, that doesn't require registration, I am willing to give it a try, so long as the players want to use it as well.

But I still think that the forums are more that adequate to track and discuss bugs.

#6 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:38 AM

I'd be happy to host Mantis on el.beplacid.net for the testing period (and perhaps afterwards).

This needs to be announced, so that everyone has a chance of using it and so we can really see if it will work. Closing the Bug Reports forum and linking to Mantis would work, but I doubt you'd be up for doing that. Either way, it'd be great if we can really give this a proper try; with both devs, admins and users taking part.

The offer's there...

#7 bluap

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:46 AM

But I still think that the forums are more that adequate to track and discuss bugs.

I think the forums are adequate but an accessible bug tracking system might be better, particularly around code freeze / release time. With the forum, it's sometimes difficult to keep tract of bug status, particularly whether someone is working on a bug. This might be easier on a bug tracking system. Also, a proper bug tracking system should be able to give you easy access to the status of all bugs in one view.

#8 Entropy

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:46 AM

I can't close the bugs forum now, but I will announce it a few times in the game, and see how it works.
If people really enjoy it, and use it properly, then I'll consider closing the bugs forum.

#9 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:50 AM

I can't close the bugs forum now, but I will announce it a few times in the game, and see how it works.
If people really enjoy it, and use it properly, then I'll consider closing the bugs forum.

OK, good. I'll set it up ASAP and post the URL here.

#10 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 05:37 AM

http://el.beplacid.net/bugs

Sign-up, and I'll give the relevant permissions. I'll also make a general chat post once Vegar and I have finished setting things up.

#11 Entropy

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:01 AM

Ok, I registered, but the idea is that everyone but the developers should not be required to register. An additional registration will turn off many people.

#12 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:08 AM

Ok, I registered, but the idea is that everyone but the developers should not be required to register. An additional registration will turn off many people.

Yes, an anonymous reporter has been created so people can just report bugs.

#13 Entropy

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:18 AM

Ok, great, I will announce it tomorrow in the game and in the bugs forum.

Thanks!

#14 bkc56

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:32 AM

It would be a huge job (not one I'd really like) but all the current bugs posted in the forums (well, the ones that haven't been fixed) should be moved into the tracking system. At least we'd know they haven't been forgotten.

#15 Entropy

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:36 AM

Well, if the submiters care enough about them, they can resubmit them here too.

#16 Entropy

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 09:04 AM

BTW, the first 4 bug reports (I deleted the ones where we played with the new system) are by me, but wasn't logged in.

#17 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 01:55 PM

I've added Florian, AlvieBoy and bluap as developers to the Eternal Lands Client sub-project.

Edited by Placid, 02 December 2007 - 01:57 PM.


#18 crusadingknight

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 04:23 PM

I don't know much about the mantis internals, but would it be possible to default anonymous users to the 'view issues' view instead of 'my view'? My main concern is that anonymous reporters should see (and be more likely to use) the search/filter box on login, instead of just jumping straight to 'report issue' and creating duplicate issues. It took me a bit to find the search functionality after I logged into my account, actually, so I'm not speaking completely based on assumptions.

Edited by crusadingknight, 02 December 2007 - 04:54 PM.


#19 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:58 PM

I don't know much about the mantis internals, but would it be possible to default anonymous users to the 'view issues' view instead of 'my view'? My main concern is that anonymous reporters should see (and be more likely to use) the search/filter box on login, instead of just jumping straight to 'report issue' and creating duplicate issues. It took me a bit to find the search functionality after I logged into my account, actually, so I'm not speaking completely based on assumptions.

Good idea. The default page after login or switching project is the bug listing page. This is for both Anonymous and normal users.

#20 Placid

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 09:18 PM

I think we should start assigning bugs to developers. Anyone know what bug should go to who? Is anyone working on anything specific?

Edited by Placid, 02 December 2007 - 09:22 PM.





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