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Depletable resources and multiplaying

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My vote:

 

2) Allow purchase of GC through the EL shop.

 

i do not believe that he can do this, back a while ago ent, said "I will never sell levels" this money can be used to buy hydro, hence selling a level and he has been a man of his word when it has come back to this, it has been suggested a few times to him i believe

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My vote:

 

2) Allow purchase of GC through the EL shop.

 

i do not believe that he can do this, back a while ago ent, said "I will never sell levels" this money can be used to buy hydro, hence selling a level and he has been a man of his word when it has come back to this, it has been suggested a few times to him i believe

 

...hmm, that's fair.

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Not for me.

I am mule lvl 10,and i only use mule to mule items to store.

Does this mean 600kgc+ wasted?

I can see this being abused by rogue guilds blocking(harvesting) resources,then sending scouts to find non -depleted resources when the one they are using is empty?

I see massive inflation ,(supply and demand.)

 

I see I am in the minority,and I,m sure my arguements will be shot to pieces,but thats my 2 cents.

 

the_grud

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Not for me.

I am mule lvl 10,and i only use mule to mule items to store.

Does this mean 600kgc+ wasted?

 

No.

Why do you think so?

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cant say im thrilled with this, depletable resources ok its a nice idea but the alts i dont think is cause people will make like 4 alts and go to 1 resource say silver ore in mm and deplete it then move onto another then another an just hog it all and sell off for insane prices but well wait and see what happens when its added

 

That is an issue, but we can make rules against camping at resources. Very easy to detect if players from the same IP do that, then I can make it so they can't harvest for a few hours.

 

Instead of having the counter on the resources, would it be possible to have them tied to the player ?

 

ie: player A has a hourly/daily harv limit at a certain spot, when that limit is reached they have to move, would stop ppl with multi alts depleting resources and also would negate problems with time zone differance

 

i like this idea stops people from hoarding all the stuff

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Several concerns:

 

1) One of the best things about EL, in my opinion, is that it is so versatile -- a player can choose to do one thing or many, a player can choose to be in a guild or play solo. Also, a player who only has time to play a couple hours a week can still have an enjoyable experience, as can those who are able and choose to play for several hours a day. Making resources depletable means that those players who play for many hours a day have a clear advantage in that they will have access to more resources than a player who only plays an hour on Saturday.

 

2) New players who don't choose to train a/d will likely find resources unavailable to them on safe maps, giving a clear advantage to people who train a/d. This makes a specific skill set more valuable than the others and in a way removes a lot of choice from the development of a character. One of the advantages of EL is that, while there isn't a cast system, people can choose to develop what they like and to what extent they like -- EL shouldn't play favorites with skills.

 

3) While I have no problems with families, or guilds, or any other social parts of the game, allowing legal multi-player and giving multiple characters to a single player gives a distinct advantage to people who play in a group or withing some sort of social context. I am part of a guild, and enjoy that, but much of my time is spent doing my own thing. Some guilds are very active and close-knit, others are more loosely associated. I think that that variety is a good thing. Allowing multiple characters would force people into guilds, just so that resources could be pooled and large tasks could be undertaken on a competitive level with people who have many multiple characters, as only through large numbers would any significant amount of resources be available to the player.

 

4) As to trading of resources, unless people are simply going to harvest whatever they can find, gold will be the exchange medium of choice. For lower-level players, practically the only source of gold is harvesting and selling. If resources are already hard to come-by, they will not have the gold to purchase what they need.

 

I am not opposed to making resources harder to come-by, however, I don't think it would be fair, particularly to infrequent solo players and new players, to have to spend a great deal of time just to find a resource that is not depleted. If perhaps a player can only pick so many of a particular item from a given bush or map, but could go on to another map or bush somewhere else, I think that would be ok, as players could still know where to go and not have to spend time trying out bushes on different maps just to find one that is not depleted this hour but might be depleted when they log back in next week. While it is good to explore, one should not have to constantly be looking for something new once they become acquainted with a given set of maps. So perhaps per-player or per-IP harvesting limits, with each map being separate in terms of limits imposed (one could harvest say 500 iron in DP before it was depleted, but could then go to EVTR and harvest another 500). This would allow new players or players who choose not to train a/d to have always have access to "safe" resources, but would allow people who are willing to take more risks the ability to harvest more/faster. Casual players could still easily find a place to harvest, as any bush/mine would have some resources from them, and they wouldn't have to search every map, spending most of the hour they may have to play just trying to find a place to harvest and not having time left to make essences or whatever it is they are trying to do.

 

As for multiple characters, perhaps a hard rule or 1 character per IP. If you have a legitimate reason for more than one character from an IP (family play, multiple people behind a larger gateway, such as a school, cafe, etc.), there should be a stream-lined process for white-listing given players at given IPs. Only after a player is white-listed on an IP should they even be able to log-in. (I'm not sure how player creation works, but a new character should be able to be generated, even if the IP is not white-listed, as an existing character would be needed for the white-list.) Perhaps audit such an account off and on to verify that the actions of the characters are somewhat independent (trading among a family is fine, but no one character should spend all of its time harvesting while another is always reaping the resources or simplistic goods).

 

Bottom line: making resources delpetable from a common pool gives an unfair advantage to hard-core gamers, social groups, and people who run multiple characters at once. It would make the EL experience much less enjoyable for the casual player, and much harder for the new player to gain a foot-hold. Multiple characters is only something pursued by serious gamers as well, and even if they are made legal, it will only further the gap between the casual and the hard-core gamers. One's skills and resources should come not from how much one is willing to dedicate to the game in terms of multiple players and hiking all over, and joining a guild to monopolize given resources, but should come from the time and effort one is willing to spend building their character, harvesting resources, mixing, etc. All players should be on an equal footing.

 

Thank you for reading through my thoughts.

~TreeLord

 

------------

EDIT: A few typos and rephrasing a few things to attempt to make it easier and clearer to read.

Edited by TreeLord

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i have talked much about this on channel 6. now to post a few thoughts here :P

 

i thought mini events was your way to slow gold farming? since that doesn't seem to be working well enough again you try to stop the people who LOVE harvesting by messing with what is the MOST NEEDED skill in the game.

 

when people need to use 100's and 1000's of 1 ing just to get a little bit closer to their next lvl making the ings needed deminish and now they must run all over looking for plants that someone else didn't already get. if i wanted to run all over chasing things i would have picked fighting as my main skill :S

 

I AM A HOARDER!!!!

 

i hoard for myself and to help friends/guildies and the likes.. i RARELY sell the stuff i gather unless its tit ores.. so with this in play no more me selling that ore for book gc :( and i will not be sharing any of my ings again..sad day indeed :(

 

would really be nice if you just said NO MORE GOLD FARMING.. if you are caught you will be banned.. not hard to do.. plus you wouldn't have to keep changing harvesting over and over...

also most gold farmers use their bots anyways to get the gold to sell.. why not do something about them bots then?

 

1 game window open per comp.. again most other games have that already in play.. makes it SUPER hard to even think of multiplay.

no reason at all anyone would need any alts help gathering your main stuff.. i do this easy enough with my main.. so what if it takes me a week to a month longer it's the joy of knowing i'm playing the game i want :)

and knowing i EARNED what i got..

bymaking multiplay legal it would become just a 'who can have the most alts on harving at once' kinda game.. and wow that would be so much better than them mini events huh????

so much for you wanting to stop gold farming :)

 

theres also the catch of if people have alts helping their main why would people need guilds???

they wouldn't.. no more guild projects cause never know when something will become depleted on you..or you wouldn't need help cause you got your 2-3 other alts harving all the stuff you'd need anyways.

so the events i held with my guild of making 1k of ess for each person with about 6 of us seems to be in the past now *sigh*

 

if the majority of people still love the idea of running all over cause well it might take that flower bush and all the rest closest to stor about 3 hours to respawn then please think about making it do so many per person.. not a group....

say there is 500 suns at this 1 plant.. make it 500 suns for 1 person. would still be same idea you wanting everyone running around like all the fighters do.

 

also think about what it will do for the prices of ings.. would make them more spendy, so many people that bought ings before will instead become more hard core harvesters and the plants will be depleted even faster :(

there will be even MORE hoarding than now...why hoarding is a problem i don't know.

 

i know i bitched alot but i did give some ideas to fix what isn't broken also :)

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Depletable resources work great in other games but there is one catch - none of those games with depletable resources I know requires such amounts of raw materials to accomplish simple production / leveling tasks as EL does. EL already requires enormous number of repetition of certain tasks to reach goals at the higher level, so I'd be very careful about setting depletaable resource limit below acceptable minimum. Fortunately it seems to be quite easy to fine tune. Since the decision has been already made, we'll see how it works in practice (however I do not really think EL can benefit in any way from making harvesting to require even more work as it requires now).

 

i totally agree on this part, i was waiting till some1 will point it out :)

 

 

Ok, well, let us have a vote then, so you won't say: "omfg that moron ruined the game (again)!11!"

 

Or implement and evaluate after 2 weeks or a month?

We've all seen that judging without experiencing properly leads to premature reactions. This is such a massive change for both the game as for the players, that it might be worth a testphase?

 

Unfortunately, that requires a lot of work (the implementation), and I don't want to work like an idiot then the players to say: omfg, I am quitting.

 

What Dilly sais is very true and it is the best way to see if we like it or we don`t. and then say if this `ruins game` or it helps.

but ... i really understand Entropy, no1 want to do a job which is useless, or will not be needed.

 

And 1 more thing. Ent you should understand that voting isnt 100% sure thing. because not all of those who votes understands what does it mean:

1.to have an alt which harvs all the time, (not speaking about 2-3 or more which now is imposible or useless anyway).

2. to sit at some cave for days harvesting and mixing in same place. or harvesting for a week muling all to sto, to have 1 full day of mixing to be able to LVL or make some GC.

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I'm not sure less will be harvested, people will just stock up for later use.

If I go in the mm mine after silver ore and it's gone, would I take sulfur or gold ore.

And there are always flowers.

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Not for me.

I am mule lvl 10,and i only use mule to mule items to store.

Does this mean 600kgc+ wasted?

 

No.

Why do you think so?

 

at the moment.

Myself and 2 guildies decide to harv 10k sulfur.we harv 9k i change to mule,mule it to store.(several trips...1 glyph+creature food)

 

with changes.

 

Unable to harv 10k sulfur between us in one place.

e.g....say we harv 2k sulfur between us,not worth changing into mule!

 

I spent 600kgc+ to mule large quantities to store,cant see how I could do this if the large quantities are not available any more.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Anyone want to buy a mule...going cheap lol

 

the_grud

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Unable to harv 10k sulfur between us in one place.

e.g....say we harv 2k sulfur between us,not worth changing into mule!

 

Or you can put it in hyperspace bags and wait until you get 10K?

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If I go in the mm mine after silver ore and it's gone, would I take sulfur or gold ore.

 

But once again, this raises what I was saying earlier: why am I going to want to get flowers when I'm trying to make weapons or armor? If I'm trying to harvest iron ore (and anyone can tell you how long it can take to get sufficient amounts there!) and I'm having to go around through each and every harvest spot to try and get the amounts I need, by the time I even get started, I'd probably have to log off due to requirements of real life. Yes, I could go off and horde other things while waiting for the iron ore spots to replenish, but if I'm trying to work on manufacturing, why am I going to want dandelions?

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If I go in the mm mine after silver ore and it's gone, would I take sulfur or gold ore.

 

But once again, this raises what I was saying earlier: why am I going to want to get flowers when I'm trying to make weapons or armor? If I'm trying to harvest iron ore (and anyone can tell you how long it can take to get sufficient amounts there!) and I'm having to go around through each and every harvest spot to try and get the amounts I need, by the time I even get started, I'd probably have to log off due to requirements of real life. Yes, I could go off and horde other things while waiting for the iron ore spots to replenish, but if I'm trying to work on manufacturing, why am I going to want dandelions?

You could trade them for iron ore.

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Zamirah :P some1 already wrote something like `why harv something that i dont need` and also would u imagine you self harvesting some BSF or some unpopular flowers which sells only 0.25 ea, and then try to buy iron ores with the gc :) if you needed iron in a first place..... yeah i know im not good at explanations , srry :)

 

and other thing.. if i couldnt harv what i need i would just go serp some mobs and get gc that way, and then buy ores or w\e is needed :) i think it would be way more eficient than harv some flowers..

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If I go in the mm mine after silver ore and it's gone, would I take sulfur or gold ore.

 

But once again, this raises what I was saying earlier: why am I going to want to get flowers when I'm trying to make weapons or armor? If I'm trying to harvest iron ore (and anyone can tell you how long it can take to get sufficient amounts there!) and I'm having to go around through each and every harvest spot to try and get the amounts I need, by the time I even get started, I'd probably have to log off due to requirements of real life. Yes, I could go off and horde other things while waiting for the iron ore spots to replenish, but if I'm trying to work on manufacturing, why am I going to want dandelions?

You could trade them for iron ore.

Yes, I could - unless, because of a cap placed on the amount of resources that can harvested, there's none available to be traded. And if there's a shortage of resources, I highly doubt people will be willing to trade what little they have.

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Zamirah :) some1 already wrote something like `why harv something that i dont need` and also would u imagine you self harvesting some BSF or some unpopular flowers which sells only 0.25 ea, and then try to buy iron ores with the gc :) if you needed iron in a first place..... yeah i know im not good at explanations , srry :P

 

and other thing.. if i couldnt harv what i need i would just go serp some mobs and get gc that way, and then buy ores or w\e is needed :( i think it would be way more eficient than harv some flowers..

I'm so lucky that I have nexus for most skills, so BSF or other flowers could I use too.

It's just stocking up untill I have the other ingreds.

But if you only work with manu, go harv cotton and make leather helms. :)

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Ingame name: cathuga - i beleive this whould make a dramatic change in a good way, because most of the time people are getting banned from that one rule, it whould cause a lot of peace and pleasure in the game, and we don't have to go out of our way to prove to the moderators that we are two different people after getting your account(s) locked. so im all for this Entropy! nice idea :)

 

The rule #5 is DO NOT CHEAT. and if you read the Ban forum, you will see, that those bans are getting unfair advance, not for being family. There is minimum of bans released because somebody proved, that was 2 independend ppl who did not cheat. Nearly in every case there was obvious cheating in the ban. Also the conditions of unbaning are usually : 1 char, no alt, no sharing char, no problems making - to which ppl do agree.

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lol Zami that evil :P Leather helms are evil :)

 

and well in this case, i am not doing manu only... actually im a noob manuer :) im Alchin most of my time. but that takes loads of ings and loads of things to harv too :( im not saying that other skills do not require ings or harvin :( its just too much harving included in most of the skills... :)

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Why not make a mix ?

Depletable resources in non-PK maps...

Infinite resources in PK maps...

 

OR

I like the general idea of having the depletable... but i would rather see resources "grow" each second

EG. silver deposite has 300 left + 1 growing every second... this would not lead to an 'empty' but when the resource hits 0

harving speed would decrease to (1/# of people harving) per sec. (a lot of failed harvests for the harvesters trying at 0,

but 1 will get lucky and harv the 1 silver ore created)

 

just an example... change the sec by min or 10*rand()*sec or something :)

 

just my 2 cents...

 

[edit]

OWW as a side not:

Depletable resources could mean that we have special things like:

Day of no silver...

Ore only harvestable between 0:00 and 0:30 XD

but also random starvation of resources....-> all veggiespatches in c1 have become poisoned by gnomes

[/edit]

Edited by RotationZ

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Unable to harv 10k sulfur between us in one place.

e.g....say we harv 2k sulfur between us,not worth changing into mule!

 

Or you can put it in hyperspace bags and wait until you get 10K?

 

Hyperbag are NOT MEANT to be safe - so the use of mule would be "risk hours of work to just have chance use the expensive skill once a week - if nobody did notice, that the harvester sits there much longer, that his posible EMU is"

 

On the other hand - lets harv what is possible before the resource is depleated. Then release your 10 alts with low EMU, let them go to your spot (1 click / alt) fill them with stuff, send them back to store (another click / alt) - no need to be mule to carry some k of emu, just buy more ram and open more windows with alts. Nice and elegant solution.

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Multiplying - yes, but only if:

 

One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

sweet. we l33t puter nerdz will have an advantage... as we should. :lipssealed:

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Multiplying - yes, but only if:

 

One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

sweet. we l33t puter nerdz will have an advantage... as we should. :lipssealed:

 

Meh, if you quote, quote fully (add also limit of account per IP I've metioned).

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So then, you're suggesting 1 char logged on from each IP at a time?

 

EDIT:

Elaboration;

You said "limit", i presumed you meant a number other than 1 (as i'd expect you'd say "1", if you meant 1, and by "limit" i was expecting a "few" was implied).

 

If you mean anything more than 1, then i didn't under-quote. Apart from my housemate who logs into EL maybe once a week, there's no one else playing from my IP, certainly not on a regular basis.

Edited by Korrode

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Multiplying - yes, but only if:

 

One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

sweet. we l33t puter nerdz will have an advantage... as we should. :lipssealed:

 

O im sure l33t puter nerdz would find a way around it, but if they got caught it should be a lifetime ban or total sto and skills wipe, none of this 1 month ban soft stuff :devlish:

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So then, you're suggesting 1 char logged on from each IP at a time?

 

I suggested to discuss what feasible limit means and set it on a level that suits the game the best. In my case I would be happy with 1 char per IP, but 2-3 per IP (even if run on 2-3 real/virtual machines) would not mean any harm to the game I think. Players who are dedicated enough to play the game in such a way deserve some credit for their efforts (I'm sure they can do much more significant for the game balance things than just playing 2-3 alts anyway).

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