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Question about the economy

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thing is , ELs an enjoyable game and its possible to do whatever you want which is a fantastic aspect . Just like me if you dont like a skill then you dont have to do it anymore ( manu )

 

You can if you want get your gaming hands on any item/pixel with a bit of hard work :D

 

Trouble is once we stop thinking of it as an enjoyable game , and more like the most important thing since the flushable toilet its easy to get too hung up on things that dont make it enjoyable anymore .......

 

So what if marro makes 1 mil GC a month, good for him im sure he put some insane amount of hours into it and deserves every last coin ( the guy can train Yetis on his own which is a feat in itself :P )

 

So what if bots guide the market sometimes , someone payed rl $ for it and that helps the keep the game free to play, I dont really like them but I still use them ....... cant help it

 

So what if someone has more GC than you , just like RL , it doesnt matter ! What matters is how you treat people , how you make friends and the memories you take with you on your journey .........

 

So the EL economy isnt perfect, its fine for us to talk about it and discuss our different views but in the end the sun will still come up in the morning and I dont mean the 2 suns in extended camera mode

 

Im in a funny mood , so if it seems that this post contradicts any others ive made then sorry, this is me not giving a shit :confused:

 

8*edit* this is my edit and it begins with the number 8

Edited by Ateh

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It would help manuers, when they could repair damaged stuff and not only the NPC's.

 

Lets say, 1 degraded steel plate, 3 steel bars, 1 iron bar, 1 leather, 3 FE's, 3 coal and a manuer has a chance to repair it or totally break it. This is not a money sink, like the NPC's are, but still an item sink. And when the chance to repair it, is half the manu level of the manuer, its a good way to get items out of the game, like the NPC's do now.

 

Just my 2 cents :medieval:

 

Piper

 

An interesting idea. I am not sure what you mean on the repair level though. I figure the repair level would be the same as the level required to make a fresh one. For items with more than one EFE, it could even require an EFE as part of the repair costs. I figure Entropy would like a reason to take more EFE out of the game. Having an EFE required to repair a One EFE item would make the idea of repairing it an automatic no. 1 EFE required to fix a 4 EFE item though, heck ya, spend an EFE.

 

As for price comparisons to Tankel's repair prices, which would you trust more? Tankel or your favorite smithy? Even if it costs more to repair via your favorite smithy, it may be worth it to stop Tankel from breaking yet another item.

Edited by nathanstenzel

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Yes, an increase in breaking rates would help the economy, but too many people would cry about it, so I decided not to do it.

Might I suggest, like you asked the community members about changing KF to non-drop. That you could do the same about an increased break rate? That way if and when people start complaining and saying (0mg wtf my fav weapon just broke now I can't pwnz0r ne1! U make the game no funs 4ever!!!!) blahblahblah.... You can simply reply, that you had an overwhelming community backing on it and they can just go play some other game if they don't like it.

 

I know that I would agree to state something like "I warangel solemnly swear that I will never complain about something breaking ever again if an Increased break rate was implemented. If I do that, may I and all my alts be banned for at least a half-year!"

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About prices - actually nearly all ings are for free, so cost of items is measured only in time spend on it ...

For example - last week i made 4 hydrobars - how much it did cost me? 5 broken pickaxes, 1 hammer, 6 Empty Vials - everything else i found just laying here or there ... Red Snaps, Red Roses, Sulphur, Iron ore ... also Chrysantems and Silver for HEs and Blue Quatrz + BSF for SRs ...

 

Ok, i bought also some leather to make Augmented Armor for me ... but is lasted, so i can use it again ...

 

so it takes only time and effort ... where is the price for ings here?

Got a lot of exp on the way too :)

 

On the other hand i know pure fighter who lives only by killing creatures with Bone and buys everything else paying it from drops (gc, bones, meat, books ...) ... now is on Female Orcs and continue on climbing higher ..

 

So economy is here totally different than in Real World ...

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Yes, an increase in breaking rates would help the economy, but too many people would cry about it, so I decided not to do it.

Might I suggest, like you asked the community members about changing KF to non-drop. That you could do the same about an increased break rate? That way if and when people start complaining and saying (0mg wtf my fav weapon just broke now I can't pwnz0r ne1! U make the game no funs 4ever!!!!) blahblahblah.... You can simply reply, that you had an overwhelming community backing on it and they can just go play some other game if they don't like it.

 

I know that I would agree to state something like "I warangel solemnly swear that I will never complain about something breaking ever again if an Increased break rate was implemented. If I do that, may I and all my alts be banned for at least a half-year!"

 

lol I really love how this thread has turned from:

 

" Fighter MAY not earn enough gold from there training"

 

to

 

" Fighters MAY earn TO much gold, so lets break more of there st00f "

 

Maybe just me but it seems weird logic that increased breaks would lead to increased prices, as for me the opposite would hold true, if it breaks more Im going to want to pay less than I do now not more

 

But hey lets say it would be good for the economy, then even better for it would be to increase break rates of items across the board

 

Increased break rates for alembics,vial molds,tools etc

and its really time the harv cape started to break with harv events (its pretty much a one off purchase, so not very good for a gold sink)

Ohhh we could also increase the crit fail % in the mix window, that would obviously boost the market for the Ing suppliers

 

:)

(sarcasm over)

 

Edit:

 

A couple of idea's that might work (and its only speculation so might not) is:

 

1) Remove armour and weapon drops from monsters and increase the gold drops to compensate:

Atm its easier for players like myself to just go and serp PW in RoT for s2e's and make a profit at the same time, without using a manuer, same can hold true for tit/steel chain etc

 

2) Increase the use of magic swords:

While when the top sword was a tit serp, swords such as s2e of ice etc may have been worthwhile,but with the inclusion of the great swords ingame they are now pointless, so maybe increasing there stats to be more inline with the great swords (or better due to the huge ings involved) would open up another market for the manuers.

Edited by conavar

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It would help manuers, when they could repair damaged stuff and not only the NPC's.

 

Lets say, 1 degraded steel plate, 3 steel bars, 1 iron bar, 1 leather, 3 FE's, 3 coal and a manuer has a chance to repair it or totally break it. This is not a money sink, like the NPC's are, but still an item sink. And when the chance to repair it, is half the manu level of the manuer, its a good way to get items out of the game, like the NPC's do now.

 

Just my 2 cents :)

 

Piper

 

An interesting idea. I am not sure what you mean on the repair level though. I figure the repair level would be the same as the level required to make a fresh one. For items with more than one EFE, it could even require an EFE as part of the repair costs. I figure Entropy would like a reason to take more EFE out of the game. Having an EFE required to repair a One EFE item would make the idea of repairing it an automatic no. 1 EFE required to fix a 4 EFE item though, heck ya, spend an EFE.

 

As for price comparisons to Tankel's repair prices, which would you trust more? Tankel or your favorite smithy? Even if it costs more to repair via your favorite smithy, it may be worth it to stop Tankel from breaking yet another item.

I like the idea but the repair rate shouldnt be based on the same as the level. It should consist of a risky formula because if people start repairing almost every item, items flood market and nothing ever exits. Should be a certain percentage kind of like Tankel but maybe a little better. And IMO if this ever was implemented, tankel and heavybeard should be removed

Edited by Kidberg

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LOL do you think that proposed "chance to repair it, is half the manu level of the manuer" is so high that it would be better then Tankel ? :))

Even with manu lvl 100 you get 50% chance (and to get to level 100 manu is "almost insane")

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I guess this question is more or less aimed at Entropy... But I welcome all to a healthy debate about the el economy. Specifically though, what do you want the economy to look like? What changes from its current state do you believe are beneficial?

The main reason this game has captivated me for so long is its very interesting economy. So any discussion of the matter I find very interesting. One gripe that I maintain about the el economy is inflation. I know a main challenge for the developers have been finding "exits" for all the GC in game. But what about all the entrances.... I mean some of the npcs seem almost unnecessary to me.*cough* flower buyer *cough* Although I don't believe inflation is such a huge issue I still do not see those entrances as a necessity. (although this is all my opinion anyways)

Another gripe/question.... doing the math.... no skill besides alchemy and obviously harvesting is really all that profitable.... The higher end items sell for losses.... why? how is this normal?

Although this is a sad excuse as a major debate starter I was hoping I could get some input..

(thx to anyone who responds and graciously ceases my temporary boredom)

 

The economy, as it is, is fine imo. :)

 

It is a very simple model because this is a game. Inflation?...i dont think so. Any tweaks to this economy occur from time to time by Ent, whether we know it or not. :w00t:

 

*2-cents*

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About prices - actually nearly all ings are for free

Nearly all of them except the important ones such as serp stones/binding stones lol at risk of repeating myself here

so cost of items is measured only in time spend on it ...

might be true of s2e, not true of high end manu items ......

For example - last week i made 4 hydrobars - how much it did cost me? 5 broken pickaxes, 1 hammer, 6 Empty Vials - everything else i found just laying here or there ... Red Snaps, Red Roses, Sulphur, Iron ore ... also Chrysantems and Silver for HEs and Blue Quatrz + BSF for SRs ...

and I bet you sold those hydro bars for more than 10k, which as explained would make Steel Greaves worth what ? 27k at a minimum these days ? Unless you know a person selling EFE @ 6k which is nice, but still 4kgc loss :)

so it takes only time and effort ... where is the price for ings here?

where is the price for explaining to someone who hasnt made higher end manu items that its a loss on GC ?

On the other hand i know pure fighter who lives only by killing creatures with Bone and buys everything else paying it from drops (gc, bones, meat, books ...) ... now is on Female Orcs and continue on climbing higher ..

im not sure you can call someone who is on female orcs a pure fighter .......... he might intend to be a pure fighter but I hear screams of stfu n00b from the crowds here

So economy is here totally different than in Real World ...

yep , totally agree with you but tbh mate im not sure anyone understands fully wtf is going on :w00t:

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About prices - actually nearly all ings are for free

Nearly all of them except the important ones such as serp stones/binding stones lol at risk of repeating myself here

As for me, i needed only one Serp Stone up to now (for god quest item) and i just found two ... i also keep some enriched essencies for later use and i am planing to make more just by the chance on my way up :)

 

For example - last week i made 4 hydrobars - how much it did cost me? 5 broken pickaxes, 1 hammer, 6 Empty Vials - everything else i found just laying here or there ... Red Snaps, Red Roses, Sulphur, Iron ore ... also Chrysantems and Silver for HEs and Blue Quatrz + BSF for SRs ...

and I bet you sold those hydro bars for more than 10k, which as explained would make Steel Greaves worth what ? 27k at a minimum these days ? Unless you know a person selling EFE @ 6k which is nice, but still 4kgc loss :confused:

No, i saved them to buy nexus later.

so it takes only time and effort ... where is the price for ings here?

where is the price for explaining to someone who hasnt made higher end manu items that its a loss on GC ?

My manu is not top hight yet ... still i got some manu exp for free :) I will see, what i can do, when my manu will raise more ... still i can suppose, that s2e will be good money any time, as they can be used for the hydro, which can be used for nexuses ... and many players are willing to buy 50 hydro bars for gc :)

On the other hand i know pure fighter who lives only by killing creatures with Bone and buys everything else paying it from drops (gc, bones, meat, books ...) ... now is on Female Orcs and continue on climbing higher ..

im not sure you can call someone who is on female orcs a pure fighter .......... he might intend to be a pure fighter but I hear screams of stfu n00b from the crowds here

I said pure fighter, not high level fighter - how else would you call someone, who harved ONLY the first day on EL and from the time did not get ANY other exp, only A/D/magic (43/45/23) ?

I just mentioned here as example, that it is possible to live by fighting even on lower levels - as opposition to the argument that fighter can live by sword only from some level up :)

So economy is here totally different than in Real World ...

yep , totally agree with you but tbh mate im not sure anyone understands fully wtf is going on :)

Maybe not :) but anyway i enjoy this game as is ... i got some knowledge how thinks works here and i can live here without problems :)

i real life tho cost formula is (roughly) ings+effort+livingcost(or time) = $$

in EL it is more like ings+effort+time=gc+exp

 

the hardest set prices are done by NPC - as they have unlimited gc and items - you cannot sell PoFs for more than 12gc(+some muling cost), you cannot buy polished stones for less than 22gc(-some muling cost) - not for much quantities ..

Then came the bots ... they work for players, who want to sell/buy and can afford $$ for time and effort saved ... as bots have to be suplied with someone (they cannot make anything) their prices are similar to the prices of their suppliers - and changes over time

Then came the players - their prices depends on how they balance the gc/time/exp ... one player cannot ruin the market as he has only limited time to make things ... so common agreement cames here and affects also the bots ...

 

If we agree, that nexus point is woth 0.5Mgc, then one hydrobar is worth around 10kgc (as NPC hard-set 50 hydrobars=1 nexus). If we agree, that nexus point is worth 5Mgc, then hydrobars would climb near 100kgc ... if all agree nexus point is worth 5kgc, then hydrobars would fall to 100 gc and noone would sell them as NPC offers much better price for Iron/Steel bars.

 

Similary - i just found Animal Removal Stone - what is the price of it? NPC do not sell, nor buy it, so it is on common agreement - Trinity suggest 220-250kgc - i looked at bots, the 220kgc looks like in range they set it ... i set auction for it with 220 kgc as starting price - and someone did bid - so the price is apparently not too high for him. But not counter offer so far, so the price is probabelly not much higher ... and i will sell it at this price. If you substitue 20kgc for the price in this paragraph and still only one player would bid ... i would sell it for such price ... the same apply would it be 2Mgc ... if there is someone willing it at this price, why should i not sell it? It is no use for me anyway ... (well until i would have all nexuxes maxed from hydrobars ... then i maybe would look for buying one to incerase my attribs ... but it is soo far for me now ...)

 

So the price of "rare items" - stones, enriched essencies and so is simply set by the NPCs, Radu's $$ shop and demand/offers of market ... high or low ...

 

As for your Steel Greaves ... EFE can be made by the chance (and the chance is better, whe you are Artificer) ... so its price is result of market as well as the greaves i think - if it is loss for you and the exp does not pay for it, then do not sell them at all - make it only for you personal use or even buy it, if you need it ... NPC Horea buys it for 21kgc, sells for 42 kgc - so the price should be SOMEWHERE in this range or just little out as Idaloran maybe long way for someone ... any amount of gc/items thrown on fighter does not change this (well until there are SG in each drop so noone would care give some out for free) ... and in final the minimum price for making SG is nonsence to count (2 leathers, some inexpensive tools, LOT of time and effort) - it depends only on you sence what your time is valued for ... visibly there are many players, who count the time in game as fun (or buys items like EFE for $$ or did found any other way to cover the expences for EFE), so the price is near the bottom set by NPC ...

 

I am not in top X players, but i hope i am not totally at bottom too :) And i do play this game only half year now, so i will go higher for sure in some time ...

(yes, i am officially certified n00b - NPC Tutor heals me for free, but on the other hand harv 68, alch 66, craft 44, pot 39 and manu 27 is not soooo much bad too :)

Edited by gilhad123

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It would help manuers, when they could repair damaged stuff and not only the NPC's.

 

Lets say, 1 degraded steel plate, 3 steel bars, 1 iron bar, 1 leather, 3 FE's, 3 coal and a manuer has a chance to repair it or totally break it. This is not a money sink, like the NPC's are, but still an item sink. And when the chance to repair it, is half the manu level of the manuer, its a good way to get items out of the game, like the NPC's do now.

 

Just my 2 cents ;)

 

Piper

 

An interesting idea. I am not sure what you mean on the repair level though. I figure the repair level would be the same as the level required to make a fresh one. For items with more than one EFE, it could even require an EFE as part of the repair costs. I figure Entropy would like a reason to take more EFE out of the game. Having an EFE required to repair a One EFE item would make the idea of repairing it an automatic no. 1 EFE required to fix a 4 EFE item though, heck ya, spend an EFE.

 

As for price comparisons to Tankel's repair prices, which would you trust more? Tankel or your favorite smithy? Even if it costs more to repair via your favorite smithy, it may be worth it to stop Tankel from breaking yet another item.

I like the idea but the repair rate shouldnt be based on the same as the level. It should consist of a risky formula because if people start repairing almost every item, items flood market and nothing ever exits. Should be a certain percentage kind of like Tankel but maybe a little better. And IMO if this ever was implemented, tankel and heavybeard should be removed

Then make repairs go by Murphy's Law. Any fail is a crit fail.

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gilhad123, it seems you wish to be an underpaid harvester pretending to be a manufacturer.

If you have to spend time to harvest an item, the item should be approximately what any harvest guild charges regardless of if you mix them into something or not.

 

EFE and serp stones are not free because you have to spend massive amounts of time mixing to get lucky enough to get a single EFE and you have to kill alot of orcs or harvest alot of ore to get a single serp stone.

 

If you want to be a manufacturer, I seriously suggest you don't try to take the underpaid harvester approach. Instead, find a guild that values your mixing skill and will pay you to mix their ingreds or mix people's ingreds with an insurance policy. Else than that, augmented leather armor, steel shields, leather boots might be good.

 

I wish you luck with your manu trade and your way of thinking (which I find quite disturbing).

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If you want to be a manufacturer, I seriously suggest you don't try to take the underpaid harvester approach. Instead, find a guild that values your mixing skill and will pay you to mix their ingreds or mix people's ingreds with an insurance policy. Else than that, augmented leather armor, steel shields, leather boots might be good.

 

I wish you luck with your manu trade and your way of thinking (which I find quite disturbing).

Much more i like to be independed ;) I know, that i will not be in top 100 until all more skilled players will leave EL, but it does not matter for me ... i have other personal goals and i work to archieve them the way i like it to do ... and i am still getting some nice rewards on the way a archive one goal after another :) It is my way, and not many other go this way, but who cares, enjoy your way as much as i enjoy mine and everyone will be happy ...

I can make nearly anything i want and see that i would be able do also the rest in some time ... still i have fun in the way i play it and i found nice guild, where i can chat and help others and get valued fo myself, not only for some skill ...

 

For me the EFEs and Serps are nearly like free, as i got them way before i actually could use them and still have them in my sto saving it for making the items, that requires it (one of each kind just for the fun of being able to do it) :pickaxe:

 

As for prices - i accept common ones and do not need to undercut it as i am in no bad need of money, so i can wait for reasonable price, whatever it is, or just do something else ... i will got some money any way, sooner or later, and i spend it mainly on books .. now i had read many things i cannot do yet, or did not yet done ... so no hurry here too :pickaxe:

 

I also sell a lot potions which other needs/wants and my main interest is crafting now ... i may do sometime tons of LEs just to get the ELEs needed for MOL and make one for myself ... then i will probabelly try some summoning too, to make some use of all the LEs (that is, nobody near to me start summoning before me and would not ask me for the LEs)

 

 

There are surly much faster (but more boring) ways up and i know about some of them, but why i would do it? What will be the fun after, if would be able to do any item in game? What should i do then? Brag about it is satisfying only for couple of days ... and then i would became stuck unable go back and enjoy those parts which i skipped and also unable to do anything better ... I rather enjoy the way just now and have a lot of more in future to reach :)

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The fact of the Matter is what they are trying to tell you is.... By manufacturing the items you are decreasing your assets. If you spent the time to harvest everything then that means you have "spent" something to get what you need to make the items. Take an Iron bar for example... A poor example but easy to understand. It costs 7 iron ore, 2 fire essences, 3 coal and a bit more than one bone to make it. value of Iron 3-3.5 * 7 = (21-24.5) Cost of fire essences 3-3.5*2= (6-7) cost of coal 3*3=(9) and cost of bone is (2-2.5). Add up all the costs. (not even including the cost of your time...) (38-43) value of an Iron bar? (35-38) Loss (3-5) gc per bar. What does that mean? It means you would be better off selling iron ore than you would be to make a bar. Why is this a bad example? Its a bad example because Iron bars are a low level item in which it should not yield lots or any profits because they are made for experience. But that does no mean this information is any less valid because this is true of almost all high level manufacturing items to a dizzying scale. Were talking about a hypothetical (3-5) gc time loss. Manufacturing most high items yields a multiple thousand gold coin money loss. If you are lucky and don't fail. What is this difference? The difference is that these manufacturers are counting the super rare items you need. You can't just make those from scratch.

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EL should get an Auction House \o/

 

Then what the fuck is the point in having bots?

 

Could bots have an auctioneer option? Items generally sold in multiples could remain like they are, but higher end gear generally sold singularly could be sold at auction.

 

Example:

/bot wanted

/player Hello! I am selling the following:

700 HE 6gc each

blah blah blah

Be sure to check auction items as well! :pickaxe:

/bot auction

/player Hello! Welcome to my auction! I am selling the following:

Crown of Life...current bid 35000...auction ends in 3 hours 12 minutes...buy now price is 90000

/bot bid Crown of Life 40000

/player Grats! You have bid on the Crown of Life for 40000! If you do not have the gc in storage at the time the bid ends, the item will go to the next highest bidder. Good luck!

 

3 hours 12 minutes later...

/player Congratulations! You have won the bid for the Crown of Life! 40000gc has been deducted from your storage and a shiny new Crown of Life waiting for you!

 

Or something like that...

 

Bot owners could set the minimum bid (listed as "current bid") and the number of hours the auction is to be held.

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Gilhad, I see you're selling disengagement rings for 85gc. You're selling below ingreds prices. Silver bars can be sold at the NPC for 30gc, FEs for 3gc and the polished sapphire for 22.5

 

22.5 + 2*30 + 5 * 3 = 97.5

 

Basicly you're losing money.

Edited by ago

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Gilhad, I see you're selling disengagement rings for 85gc. You're selling below ingreds prices. Silver bars can be sold at the NPC for 30gc, FEs for 3gc and the polished sapphire for 22.5

 

22.5 + 2*30 + 5 * 3 = 97.5

 

Basicly you're losing money.

As I said, it seems he wishes to be an underpaid harvester.

Sadly, it seems alot of players do and it really needs to stop.

Edited by nathanstenzel

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I bet someone already said, but... The sum of all NPC's in EL should be able to buy EVERY "FINISHED" ITEM ingame (not ingreds), for the sum of the price of the ingredients. That price should be determined by the actual NPC prices for ingreds. As an example, the formula written above.

 

That way, we wouldn't have to actually PAY for every exp we want to get on the "Finished item" skills (craft/eng/manu/tailor/alch/pot/summ). There's too many manu'ers, too little buyers. We need an item sink, and fast.

 

Pure fighters, imagine you have to pay money for every and each exp you want to get. And I don't mean items to degrade (I lose stuff with criticals too, from time to time). I mean, in example, 10gc per 1k exp (which is less than I lose for a leather helm in manu school, and I get around 100 exp). And on top of it, exp is slow. And you complain about the drops... I wish a leather helm dropped me 1 gc everytime I make one...

Edited by Moebius

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I bet someone already said, but... The sum of all NPC's in EL should be able to buy EVERY "FINISHED" ITEM ingame (not ingreds), for the sum of the price of the ingredients. That price should be determined by the actual NPC prices for ingreds. As an example, the formula written above.

 

That way, we wouldn't have to actually PAY for every exp we want to get on the "Finished item" skills (craft/eng/manu/tailor/alch/pot/summ). There's too many manu'ers, too little buyers. We need an item sink, and fast.

 

Pure fighters, imagine you have to pay money for every and each exp you want to get. And I don't mean items to degrade (I lose stuff with criticals too, from time to time). I mean, in example, 10gc per 1k exp (which is less than I lose for a leather helm in manu school, and I get around 100 exp). And on top of it, exp is slow. And you complain about the drops... I wish a leather helm dropped me 1 gc everytime I make one...

 

Hehe now were back to the heart of the matter. The break rate should be increased for the good of the game, and its economy. An increased break rate as I have already stated would equal an increase in demand which would eventually even out the crazy amounts of supply we have right now. The break rate is really really low in my opinion. as a fighter greater than 50's even I say that the break rate is ridiculous. It does not surprise me that the prices are as they are just by the fact that i have never had to replace one item on my iron plate.

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Gilhad, I see you're selling disengagement rings for 85gc. You're selling below ingreds prices. Silver bars can be sold at the NPC for 30gc, FEs for 3gc and the polished sapphire for 22.5

 

22.5 + 2*30 + 5 * 3 = 97.5

 

Basicly you're losing money.

basicaly i lost money i never invested, and i gain crafter exp which i want.

You are right if i would be here just to make money - harvest is the best paid ... but i do not like just to harvest ... i want make some crafting exp ...

My main goal is not money, it is exp and fun. Money are only tool, how to get books i want read or if i have surplus then tool how to avoid time spend with harving.

And making 1000's of the same (click bone 5x, click mix all, put items to store, get from store ings) is not fun also ... it is better to go somwhere, then harv something, mix part of it, go anywhere else, harv something else, mix it at sto, chat with people while harving, looking on the panorama on my way and do many others "non-profitable" things ...

 

so just harving and selling it does not make sence to me ... i will miss the most important part

buying ings and crafting would be nice, but i cannot afford it

buying part of ings and harving other part leaves me with exp and some money for books ...

 

and buying ings then sell rings for more would be nice, but even on the price 85 nobody PMed me for them ...

so i can make rings for exp and do not sell them at all (as nobody buys it, so it is the same as throw it away/to store), or sell it at price, where someone buys it (and it is mostly 80gc at bots) and buys some books or something else ...

Alternatively i can sit near the bot and ask each person going around, if s/he does not want to buy it at the price the bot sells it (or little cheaper), but it is not fun and the time spend such makes no profit for me (in gc/h nor in exp)

Or i can simply stop playing EL for some time and then buy gc for $$ made in real world ... but where is the fun?

 

Strike would help to rise prices, but how many crafters would not sell something requested even inside guild or to friends? And how many fighters can do some crafting too?

 

Maybe i will look for other item to make when Dis Rings would became boring, maybe it would be something what NPC buys (still under price of ings) but selling it to just "sink" where nobody actually use it is also not satisfying ... selling to bots/palyers ensures someone will use it so it is not meaningless work at all ...

 

well - do you think you can organize "moth logn crafters strike" where majority of crafters would sell only to NPC? If so, i can join it too ... if no, i will go my way ...

 

(moth to dry out bots/storage reserves of other palyers, majority such big, that the not striking would not be able to satisfy the demand ...)

Edited by gilhad123

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Strike would help to rise prices, but how many crafters would not sell something requested even inside guild or to friends? And how many fighters can do some crafting too?

 

Maybe i will look for other item to make when Dis Rings would became boring, maybe it would be something what NPC buys (still under price of ings) but selling it to just "sink" where nobody actually use it is also not satisfying ... selling to bots/palyers ensures someone will use it so it is not meaningless work at all ...

 

well - do you think you can organize "moth logn crafters strike" where majority of crafters would sell only to NPC? If so, i can join it too ... if no, i will go my way ...

 

(moth to dry out bots/storage reserves of other palyers, majority such big, that the not striking would not be able to satisfy the demand ...)

It is funny that you mention a strike and selling only to NPC's because that is what I was doing as a manufacturer for about a 14 months now. I very rarely sell anything to players anymore because I refuse to be an underpaid harvester as I call it. I recommend that anyone that is not happy with how the prices are too low for things to go on strike and only sell those items to an NPC. Besides making desperate people wanting an item willing to pay more for it, there is another benefit. If you don't have to mess around with the market channel and haggling with players, you suddenly have alot more time to spend doing other things.

 

Slimpickins of ALCH is a great example of someone who sells to NPC's. He makes literally millions of magic essence and sells them to NPC's. He is one of the richest in EL and one of the best alchemists in EL.

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I bet someone already said, but... The sum of all NPC's in EL should be able to buy EVERY "FINISHED" ITEM ingame (not ingreds), for the sum of the price of the ingredients. That price should be determined by the actual NPC prices for ingreds. As an example, the formula written above.

 

That way, we wouldn't have to actually PAY for every exp we want to get on the "Finished item" skills (craft/eng/manu/tailor/alch/pot/summ). There's too many manu'ers, too little buyers. We need an item sink, and fast.

 

Pure fighters, imagine you have to pay money for every and each exp you want to get. And I don't mean items to degrade (I lose stuff with criticals too, from time to time). I mean, in example, 10gc per 1k exp (which is less than I lose for a leather helm in manu school, and I get around 100 exp). And on top of it, exp is slow. And you complain about the drops... I wish a leather helm dropped me 1 gc everytime I make one...

 

Hehe now were back to the heart of the matter. The break rate should be increased for the good of the game, and its economy. An increased break rate as I have already stated would equal an increase in demand which would eventually even out the crazy amounts of supply we have right now. The break rate is really really low in my opinion. as a fighter greater than 50's even I say that the break rate is ridiculous. It does not surprise me that the prices are as they are just by the fact that i have never had to replace one item on my iron plate.

ok gratz on making it to 50's a/d but suggesting increased break rate when you havent experienced the luxury of cyc's and all other mobs up isnt a very good idea

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personally I dont think an increased break rate would help with end prices of armors/weapons and this is why :

 

EFE / SERP / BINDINGS would be more used, but where are they going to come from ? There wont magically arrive in te game an extra supply to meet the vast increase in demand

 

Shortage means price increase no ? So you now have these items selling for even more than they do now , to pay for an armor that is going to break easily ......... make any sense so far ?

 

Easy break means people arent going to want to buy an item for a higher price than it already is , and even if they do pay an extra 5k on top of thier high end armors, sooner or later the only people able to buy insane amounts of stones and EFE are going to be the very same people who are holding the prices high on them now

 

You simply cannot compete with players who have access to alot of GC , and can afford to sell these high end armors at the lowest possible rate because they paid even less GC for them

 

STOP SELLING YOUR EFE/SERP/BINDING STONES/ ARMORS AND WEAPONS TO BOTS ............................that IMO would do more to help this economy than increasing the break rate. Bots can still buy and sell other st00f at scam prices, but if we took away the ability for them to bottom out prices on end products and increase prices on base products that to me would help ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO CAN ACTUALLY MAKE AN ITEM sell it at a decent fecking price

 

YADDA YADDA YADDA :)

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So, this thread might have died a little, but felt like bringing a little chat log to the discussion from earlier today :

 

[16:36:24] [Me_Ow @ 3]: pc ti shield

[16:36:32] [stAnNaRd @ 3]: ~24-26k

[16:36:36] [Oroville @ 3]: ~25l

[16:36:38] [Aledezar @ 3]: ~26k

[16:36:38] [Oroville @ 3]: k*

[16:36:41] [aTeh @ 3]: 27-28k LOL @ 24k

[16:36:49] [squE @ 3]: 26k

[16:36:52] You are under attack, you can't move.

[16:36:59] [Oroville @ 3]: 900k

[16:37:00] [Articenens @ 3]: lol at 27-28 miria sells for 25k

[16:37:07] [stAnNaRd @ 3]: LOL ppl would never but tit shield @ 28K LMFAO

[16:37:25] [aTeh @ 3]: so we go by prices of bots now do we?

[16:37:30] [aTeh @ 3]: i undertsand

[16:37:30] [Oroville @ 3]: yes

[16:37:31] [PM from Jim: u aint gonna fight the manu fight again r ya ? :P]

[16:37:32] You failed to flee.

[16:37:33] [Articenens @ 3]: yes lol

[16:37:49] [sirAlland @ 3]: yes.. why buy for higher price

 

SO !! there ya have it folks, the price of a Tit Shield is 25k , because a Bot sells for 25k

 

Price of two hydro bars = 20k ? Price of Binding Stone = What ? 5k ? I think fking not :)

 

Welcome to the manuers world ...........

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Yes it's exactly like aTeh says ...

I don't sell to bots and i don't sell under ingreds price (what means i don't make steel/titanium armors or great swords).

Once i get to dragon armors or other high end items, i'm sure i'll sell them for much more then the ingreds cost.

 

I hope all manufacturers of high end items will do the same and then those who are laughing at prices now, will stop laughing.

Edited by groomsh

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