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sparhawk

School Shooting

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One morning i hopped on my bus, and went to my high school. There i talked to my freinds and when the bell rang went to class. Just a normal highschool day....Or it was supposed to be. At 8:00 the school was locked down and the bells were put on. All of us thought it was a drill. Until 2 hours(after the lockdown ended) later we learned the true story. In a nearby high school (chinguacous secondary school) a student was shot. . Im glad it did not happen in my school and that no one was killed.

 

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...2d-59f7925f6184

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/National/

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A horrible thing to happen. Schools should be a safe and enjoyable place.

 

When will the American government realise that guns are NOT a good thing available so freely?

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When will the American government realise that guns are NOT a good thing available so freely?

 

This happened in Canada. And besides You insult the american government, you insult me....capiche.

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A horrible thing to happen. Schools should be a safe and enjoyable place.

 

When will the American government realise that guns are NOT a good thing available so freely?

 

Yes, for once, this was a Canadian event, not an American one :P

 

Though, we've had our share of shootings...>_>

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When will the American government realise that guns are NOT a good thing available so freely?

 

This happened in Canada. And besides You insult the american government, you insult me....capiche.

 

There was no insult here. Seriously. It is only too easy to find things that are actually insulting to bother veiling one like this.

 

What this is showing in Canada is that the current brand of gun control and lawmaking will not make the streets safe when guns are so readily available. Restricting all access to law-abiding citizens is not the answer and dodges the issue. Most people who legitimately own firearms use them for their intended purpose - killing animals. Canada just doesn't have the market for firearms, nor the culture of fear that makes a person live in constant terror of being attacked in some way(and I mean criminal attacks, not terrorist). It is a very rare case where a hunting rifle / shot gun is used in the commission of a crime, which makes the police very happy. Their job is that much easier.

 

The guns that are used comitting crimes are not legally bought. They are smuggled from an area that is notoriously lax in both the type of firearm allowed on the market and in who can obtain them. This is not only an issue in Canada, but in Western Europe now that the iron curtain is down and the inter-country borders are so lax.

 

Firearms are not a significant problem when the people who can collect them are required to pass a safe handling course to purchase them and are restricted to the type of weapon being purchased. Legal firearms are treated like any other tool. They are stored safely until used. I can only think of one country on earth that allows the civilian purchase of chain-fed machine guns. What on earth does anyone need one of them for?

 

And before the average gun nut pops up and starts crying about constitutional rights, we have all heard them before. You spend so much time defending your government from the heathen masses who aren't shy of pointing out their differences in opinion with your duely elected leaders. Yet you dont trust these leaders to defend you from any threats be they foreign or domestic or even themselves. This to me is the worst of the sick dichotomies that are inherent in the whole arguement for the gun lobby and its various supporters.

 

I enjoy owning and using firearms. I have helped teach teenagers about firearm safety. I have served in the military and used various types as well as brands of weapons. I fully support restricting the type of firearms that can be sold, and to whom. I do not support banning firearms.

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A horrible thing to happen. Schools should be a safe and enjoyable place.

 

When will the American government realise that guns are NOT a good thing available so freely?

 

Yes, for once, this was a Canadian event, not an American one :P

 

Though, we've had our share of shootings...>_>

:D

 

Well, "National Post" sounds American to me, and no I didn't look at the URL :-)

 

 

Still, when will the Canadian government realise this? (I assume they are still legal)

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Firearms are only bad in the hands of bad people. I've always supported high restrictions on acquiring gun permits (several hours of expensive gun courses, passing a safety test, and so forth). Why would someone go through a laundry list of restrictions and get a gun, only to violate the permit?

 

For the most part, the primary reason why people have a small firearm at home is for protection. It's better to have some chance against a robber than be shot dead in your own home defenseless.

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Firearms are only bad in the hands of bad people. I've always supported high restrictions on acquiring gun permits (several hours of expensive gun courses, passing a safety test, and so forth). Why would someone go through a laundry list of restrictions and get a gun, only to violate the permit?

 

For the most part, the primary reason why people have a small firearm at home is for protection. It's better to have some chance against a robber than be shot dead in your own home defenseless.

 

If you live in a country where everyone is allowed to have a weapon, it is logical to expect that the robber will be armed as well. It's a vicious circle.

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Still, when will the Canadian government realise this? (I assume they are still legal)

 

Canadian Gov't has realised it long ago. They have this problem though... Their border is a seive for smuggling of all sorts, and across it is a huge land of easy access for all sorts of things.

 

It is very very difficult for a Canadian to own anything besides a hunting type firearms. Canadians are taught how to use firearms safely before they are legally permitted to buy them. There are very strict rules about how you must store and carry firearms, and all of these rules make it very difficult to use them quickly.

 

Firearm deaths with legal weapons are almost non-existant in Canada.

 

It wasn't long ago that the total shootings in Canada were less than 10% of those in any of the largest 50 cities in the US. The official figures were on the order of less than one one hundredth of a percent of the number of shootings nation wide. The current batch of shootings would go unnoticed in most large cities in the US. They are almost all gang related. Talking to authorities from the area, nearly every firearm was illegaly obtained and smuggled from the United States.

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There's one nice thing everyone always overlooks when they talk about gun control laws - they seem to overlook that LAW only applies to LAW-abiders.

 

If you look over in the outlaws section on this forum, you will see several people listed - note: the fact that we have our version of law doesn't stop them from breaking it. Just because we say no bagjumping and such - doesn't make it go away. (Admittedly, Abuse/Bans forums might be better an example in this case, as there is actual room for punishment.)

 

Basically, if the speed limit says 55, does that stop you from going 65? That's breaking the law. If you are so willing to do so, then don't think someone who can't legally own a gun won't try to get one illegally.

 

And then, it comes down to this - gun control only limits the legal market. As long as a type of gun is in existence, someone will try to get it (legally or not). Limiting guns with laws only pisses off the people who may want to obtain one legally, and widen the gap between those who obey the law and those who could care less.

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As long as a type of gun is in existence, someone will try to get it (legally or not).

yeah, usually from somewhere where it can be legally obtained (or stolen, from someone who legally obtained it... and where there's less regulation about securing it)

if said other place didn't have so many unsavoury types weilding all sort of firearms, it'd be harder for people to obtain them elsewhere

to put it another way:

less guns in US = less gun running to canadia = less shootings by people owning illegal firearms in canadia (yes, it's over-simplified, I know)

Edited by ttlanhil

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Canada lost about 1 billion dollars in the mismanaged Gun Registry Act. They have been trying to force all gun owners to register firearms, even a former veteran with a WW1 or WW2 (can't remember which) gun that is unable to be fired at all.

 

Toronto is currently facing a gun crisis with what was a few shooting deaths/weekend.

 

I used to live in the GTA, and am most likely moving back to the Rexdale area (so help me if i live afterwords again...) and I know the risks.

 

People who have no care for the lives of others are the problems. As the saying goes. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

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This is a very unfortunate thing, that was made worse by guns.

 

If it hadn't been guns, it would have been knives or explosives.

 

If we focus too much on the gun aspect we will miss the most important part "What can we do to help our young people stay away from violent acts?". So that we can prevent the violance in the first place.

Edited by Kenneth916

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This is a very unfortunate thing, that was made worse by guns.

 

If it hadn't been guns, it would have been knives or explosives.

 

If we focus too much on the gun aspect we will miss the most important part "What can we do to help our young people stay away from violent acts?". So that we can prevent the violance in the first place.

 

 

On that note about knives, a student in the Toronto area recently was stabbed in the leg.

 

It was either Brampton or Etobicoke...i think Etobicoke.

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If you live in a country where everyone is allowed to have a weapon, it is logical to expect that the robber will be armed as well. It's a vicious circle.

 

And if you live in a country where no one is allowed to have a weapon, it is logical to expect that the robber will be armed (they do get their hands on weapons, even when illegal). What's your point?

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As long as a type of gun is in existence, someone will try to get it (legally or not).

yeah, usually from somewhere where it can be legally obtained (or stolen, from someone who legally obtained it... and where there's less regulation about securing it)

if said other place didn't have so many unsavoury types weilding all sort of firearms, it'd be harder for people to obtain them elsewhere

to put it another way:

less guns in US = less gun running to canadia = less shootings by people owning illegal firearms in canadia (yes, it's over-simplified, I know)

So, because people in Canada shoot Canadians, I shouldn't have a gun?

 

As a sidenote - I do not myself own a gun. BUT, as an American, I enjoy the right that if I did feel such need to, I can.

 

Pocal and Kenneth voiced exactly my view here - the crime is not that the gun exists or can be used on someone, but that we haven't figured out how to keep people from using it on someone. As stated, if it wasn't guns, it'd be knives, swords, staves, arrows, pianos, anvils, whole salamis, etc. If an object exists, someone can find a way to injure/kill with it. If someone wants to kill, they will attempt it - and that is the problem.

Edited by Arnieman

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This is a cop out pure and simple. The question isn't whether you can have a gun or not.

 

Also, there have been several studies that have shown that people are much more likely to kill someone using a firearm than they are with a weapon that requires them to get up close and personal.

 

Stop trying to justify the status quo and think about why there is a problem with the types of firearms that are out there.

 

Automatic rifles and machine guns just aren't that useful. Rifles and shotguns can be very useful, and the price of a shell is a great trade in for your body weight in fresh meat. Once you accept that certain types of firearm are made exclusively for killing people, you really dont have to think very hard about controlling their availability.

 

Pistols are a very special case as they ARE very useful in a defensive role but are so easily concealed that they are also one of the most commonly used in the commission of crimes. Thus, most sane countries (and a number of absolutely looney ones) have controlled the supply and aquisition of them to special cases.

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Dent: The cop out is to say that guns kill people. The hard realization behund it all is that PEOPLE kill people with guns - and anything else, if need be. From Cain and Abel down through history, muder is quite evident.

 

The very fact is that if a weapon exists, it can (and probably will) be used on another. Certainly, one way to approach it is to take the weapons away - but that won't work, people will find new ones. Then the other way is to arm everyone to deter anyone - all you need is one nutjob to actually pull the trigger, and you have a bloody mess to deal with.

 

So, what option do I view as the only VIABLE option? Don't take the guns away, but don't give them to everybody, either. Instead of copping out either way, you MUST get murder out of the human psyche.

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Firearms are only bad in the hands of bad people. I've always supported high restrictions on acquiring gun permits (several hours of expensive gun courses, passing a safety test, and so forth). Why would someone go through a laundry list of restrictions and get a gun, only to violate the permit?

 

For the most part, the primary reason why people have a small firearm at home is for protection. It's better to have some chance against a robber than be shot dead in your own home defenseless.

 

If you live in a country where everyone is allowed to have a weapon, it is logical to expect that the robber will be armed as well. It's a vicious circle.

still it would be nice to have protection even if the robber was armed wouldnt it? i mean c-mon he's armed + you armed = better chance of suvival on the other hand he armed + you not armed = not a good chance

 

This is a very unfortunate thing, that was made worse by guns.

 

If it hadn't been guns, it would have been knives or explosives.

 

If we focus too much on the gun aspect we will miss the most important part "What can we do to help our young people stay away from violent acts?". So that we can prevent the violance in the first place.

I agree and disagree now i love action movies and games with guns and peaple maiming each other but if there were none in the world i think it would be a much better place to live in

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And if you live in a country where no one is allowed to have a weapon, it is logical to expect that the robber will be armed (they do get their hands on weapons, even when illegal). What's your point?

 

It is less sure than in the case when the access to guns is common. Getting illegal arms is more difficult.

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Getting illegal arms might be harder, but getting your hand on a pistol is enough to go on a rampage Mireille. You don't need an assault weapon to pepper every standing person: it just helps.

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still it would be nice to have protection even if the robber was armed wouldnt it? i mean c-mon he's armed + you armed = better chance of suvival on the other hand he armed + you not armed = not a good chance

 

This is actually not true at all.

 

A burglar / robber is more likely to kill you or hurt you if they think you will be putting up a fight. If you have a weapon and / or do anything that may look like you are resisting, the robber is not going to melt and run away. He is going to hurt you hard and fast, and then continue to rob your bleeding corpse safely. Remember, by the time you are being robbed, it is already too late to draw down. He has the drop on you.

 

Your best chance of surviving a robbery is to hand over your valuables and let the robber go. That is what he is interested in.

 

This is not an opinion. It is fact. But keep trying. Hell, the NRA has been doing it for years in the face of any number of arguements, studies, proofs and facts.

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still it would be nice to have protection even if the robber was armed wouldnt it? i mean c-mon he's armed + you armed = better chance of suvival on the other hand he armed + you not armed = not a good chance

 

This is actually not true at all.

 

A burglar / robber is more likely to kill you or hurt you if they think you will be putting up a fight. If you have a weapon and / or do anything that may look like you are resisting, the robber is not going to melt and run away. He is going to hurt you hard and fast, and then continue to rob your bleeding corpse safely. Remember, by the time you are being robbed, it is already too late to draw down. He has the drop on you.

 

Your best chance of surviving a robbery is to hand over your valuables and let the robber go. That is what he is interested in.

 

This is not an opinion. It is fact. But keep trying. Hell, the NRA has been doing it for years in the face of any number of arguements, studies, proofs and facts.

 

So in other words, the key to survival is to surrender without dignity. People have more pride than that.

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