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Lachesis

The portland library - A comprehensive reference

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Ok, going with that tape recorder...

What's to say the same player X and Player Y ttlan mentioned are going to use the same authors/edited versions?  Same problem he mentioned will apply.

211327[/snapback]

by only allowing devs to post in the section that people will rely on to be correct. it's an implementation thing, and wikis are quite capable of being set up for it

with a wiki, you can split things up into sections, and have permissions based on sections.

...

another section might be the storyline, only devs can post&edit there, and signed-in users can read and leaves notes (which may or may not get cleaned up regularly... notes are kinda similar to replies in the forums)211321[/snapback]

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The first one that visits your article "haha, down with the rules" will see that it's vandalism and revert the edit.

 

I would really like you to try it out without restricting access globally. It's my hope that you can regain some faith in people. In my eyes, the vast majority of people is "good", and can easily rule out any troublemakers. And after all, if that wouldn't be the case, wikipedia wouldn't work. But it obviously does.

Edited by Lachesis

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The first one that visits your article "haha, down with the rules" will see that it's vandalism and revert the edit.

nu-uh, it was the first post, so no reverting :) (just editing to fix it) (for people wondering what the heck we're on about, it's the test wiki lachesis set up)
I would really like you to try it out without restricting access globally. It's my hope that you can regain some faith in people. In my eyes, the vast majority of people is "good", and can easily rule out any troublemakers. And after all, if that wouldn't be the case, wikipedia wouldn't work. But it obviously does.

211332[/snapback]

fine, if we say that 90% of the time the right thing is done, and 90% of the time things are fixed before someone bases their work on what they read, that means 1% of the time people are basing their story on invalid info, and will have to make (possibly very large) changes. that author is going to be royally peeved that what they thought was valid info wasn't, and will tell others not to trust the wiki either

it works when the wiki itself is the extent of the information. when it matter in other places as well, it doesn't work (the difference between wikipedia and EL. besides, if everyone with a forum account can log on, it's hardly exclusive)

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Shall I put the cassette in again?

 

You have a wrong picture of how the author will use the wiki. You think he just clicks on an article and uses it. No. Authors will be teached (the articles still have to be written) to look in the history, using this procedure:

 

1) Has the article been edited recently? No -> ok, it should be fine. Yes -> 2

2) Is the last editor someone I trust? Yes -> ok, it should be fine. No -> 3

3) Do I have time to check the edit?

Yes -> verify the edit. Remember the author.

No -> go back to the last revision of an author I trust.

 

In urgent cases or when you want to be 100% sure you can choose the very last option directly.

Edited by Lachesis

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Shall I put the cassette in again?

211338[/snapback]

yes please, it's very relaxing :)

but seriously... do you think the average forum reader knows how to (or should be expected to) check revisions, and figure out who they can beleive and who they can't? and if the changes other people made after that actually fix problems in the story, or add them?

I don't. nearly all of them could learn to, but they shouldn't have to need to figure all that out(especially considering how many articles they have to read to cover all the facts on a topic)

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I won't cater people that do not know how to use a wiki, except for providing links to information like quick-start guides.

211344[/snapback]

...

okay then

I, on the other hand, want it to be as simple (and, yes, idiot-proof) as possible

 

besides, you covered how to use a wiki... what about how to figure out who to trust as reliable, and if the changes made after their last edit should be used or not(here's an ideal example: what if the original author makes some changes after head of storylines cleans it up... which version do you use?)

figuring out which revision to use can't be an option, because... well... search the storylines forum for 'elves'... now imagine you wanted to write about the history of elves... and imagine going through all those. by the time you've eliminated entries that don't pertain to what you need to research, you're sick of checking relevance and such, and want to just read what's left, let that collate until you understand the history, and then start to make notes on your story

all that extra time on figuring out which revision to use (and with a lot of relevant articles, that will take some time) is a waste

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That check is really just a few seconds, at the very most. Also, vandals rarely make subtle changes. And finally, since the wiki won't be hight traffic, everyone that has some spare time can look over the recent changes page and check for bad edits.

 

In case of the sysop/original author: as I mentioned, stories are not meant to be edited at all IMO, and if so, it's up to these two people to coordinate their work. Myself, viewing the article, would not base anything on it, as it is not in the storyline namespace yet, where only completed and accepted stories should go. Like any reference, the wiki should contain only stable information; work in progress cannot be used as information source. However, we could make a work-in-progress namespace.

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I won't cater people that do not know how to use a wiki, except for providing links to information like quick-start guides.

211344[/snapback]

 

Would you, please?

 

However, we could make a work-in-progress namespace.

211357[/snapback]

 

Does this mean that you can seperate so called fact from fiction?

I was wondering if it is possible to seperate articles this way with wiki. If it is possible, wouldn't it help the matters at hand?

 

I'm just a peon here, but intrigued by it.

Please, excuse and correct me if I'm completely 'off' here. ^_^

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I won't cater people that do not know how to use a wiki, except for providing links to information like quick-start guides.

211344[/snapback]

Would you, please?

213401[/snapback]

We can't. It would be counterproductive. We can provide links and summaries for the most important info, but there's no use in trying to make it foolproof. Even the most intuitive interface to a complex tool needs knowledge on how to use it, and be it just that you have to turn the page to read the rest of a story or to click on "history" to verify the author.

 

Does this mean that you can seperate so called fact from fiction?

I was wondering if it is possible to seperate articles this way with wiki. If it is possible, wouldn't it help the matters at hand?

213401[/snapback]

Each article would be required to provide evidence whether it's fact, historic source (official story), myth (fan fiction / contributed story), work in progress or just an accumulation of facts. The last case can be assumed default so it doesn't need a special mark. The evidence can be provided using namespaces, categories, by an introductory text or in more subtle but still evident ways.

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Ok, I installed mediawiki 1.5 now (which supports user groups), and set the following permissions:

  • Everyone: read, create account (email verification)
  • Registered Users: comments (Talk pages)
  • Editors: write (add, modify) articles, upload files
  • Everything else is like in the default configuration.

I guess that's what you wanted :-) Unfortunately I had to delete the database, but there wasn't much in anyway. If you want to get access, please contact me via forum PM. The URL still is:

 

http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~cami/elwiki/

 

Please be kind and don't waste resources, otherwise my university might delete the page.

If we later decide to move the wiki that won't be any problem, I can get an SQL dump and the installed PHP files.

 

With Regards

Lachesis

 

# $wgGroupPermissions = array();

# $wgGroupPermissions['*'	]['createaccount']   = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['*'	]['read']			= true;
$wgGroupPermissions['*'	]['edit']			= false; # disables anonymous edits
$wgGroupPermissions['*'	]['talk']			= false; # disables anonymous comments

$wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['move']			= false;
# $wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['read']			= true;
$wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['edit']			= false; # disables normal user edits
$wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['talk']			= true;  # enables normal user comments
$wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['upload']		  = false; # disables normal user uploads

// Editors group
$wgGroupPermissions['editor']['move']			= true;
$wgGroupPermissions['editor']['edit']			= true; # enables authorized edits
$wgGroupPermissions['editor']['upload']		  = true; # enables authorized uploads

# $wgGroupPermissions['bot'  ]['bot']			 = true;

# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['block']		   = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['createaccount']   = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['delete']		  = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['editinterface']   = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['import']		  = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['importupload']	= true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['move']			= true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['patrol']		  = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['protect']		 = true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['rollback']		= true;
# $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['upload']		  = true;

# $wgGroupPermissions['bureaucrat']['userrights'] = true;
// Used by the Special:Renameuser extension
# $wgGroupPermissions['bureaucrat']['renameuser'] = true;

Edited by Lachesis

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Now started to add Lyn's fact files, however they seem to be inconsistent with the Historical Timeline. Is there an updated version anywhere?

a lot has changed since they were written, yes... as for updated versions of stuff... well... that's why we need this wiki :)

 

anything you think might not be accurate anymore, just tag for revision, and someone can research it (or may already know)

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Here's the basic rundown of what happened, and the explanation of the inconsistencies (A.K.A. The History of the Storylines Forum:

 

- From when I joined in February 2004 to June 2004, there were several stories in existence in this forum. However, Roja and Ent's decision at the time was not to have any main storyline for EL, but just let the players write what they want. That's why there were so many different "beginnings" stories. Tumaros was the person in charge of storylines, but he was only focused on developing the Great War chronicles. The only quests available were single one-shot events, written by Slayton and offered by the Wraith. They provided little background information about the world, merely about the situation involved in the quest. The Gods descriptions were written by Ent.

 

- Around May-June 2004, I decided to try and pull most of this Forum's stories together into one cohesive whole. I combined Saii's History of the Lands, Kayliana's Dragon stories, Tumaros' Great War, and a few scattered others to form the first Historical Timeline. For that piece of work, I was promoted to Storylines Editor (since Tumaros was rather MIA).

 

- We developed the timeline and began syncing Saii's and Kayliana's stories together. The beginnings of a main storyline was about to be formed.

 

- However, around September 2004 or so, Ent decided he wanted to write the story for EL himself. Slayton's Wraith quests were removed, and Ent began writing new quests with background stories to them. There was no communication with the Storylines forum team. I don't think he even read our stories.

 

- In any case, as a result of that, the first historical timeline was torn to shreds, and one-by-one, the writers began leaving. Eventually, I was pretty much alone in Storylines. It was at that time that I started to document the facts I could gain from reading Ent's quests. These were compiled into the Fact Files.

 

- So, the Fact Files should contain all of the information about places and people mentioned in the first three quests that Ent made: Atekel, Tankel and the Winery. Lord Luxin, too. I couldn't find a way of merging our high-fantasy stories with Ent's sci-fi technoworld, so I just left them to rot at that time. I was trying to compile the Fact Files as a base from which writers could then write new stories set in Ent's technoworld.

 

- However, eventually Ent got sick of the complaints, and decided to quit development of the game and hand it over the Roja. She authorised me to reconstruct the history of the world, so I began storylines development again. Quinticus, Master_Templar, Derin and the rest signed on, Saii, Kayliana and Tumaros dropped by, and I resurrected the old Historical Timeline and revamped it to a second edition. I always meant to rewrite Ent's quests into High Fantasy (since Roja permitted it at that time, and he had left EL), but couldn't do it because I had to get storylines going first.

 

- Throughout the next few months, I eventually developed the Main Story of EL, rewrote the Gods, got the quest team together, and composed the third edition of the Historical Timeline, which is the one we have pinned now. But the NPC descriptions of the world that Ent wrote in still have not been changed. They would have been changed eventually, but then Ent came back to development and told us not to change them.

 

- So now the world is sort of in limbo. The Fact Files are valid for Ent's world, the Historical Timeline is valid for the Storylines world, and now the task is to merge them together... somehow.

 

Good luck w' dat. :P

-Lyn-

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- So now the world is sort of in limbo. The Fact Files are valid for Ent's world, the Historical Timeline is valid for the Storylines world, and now the task is to merge them together... somehow.

mostly. some things have changed, like IP didn't end up being the link between Seridia and Irilion (at least, it isnt now. once Irilion becomes more open maybe it will be?)

some of the storylines stuff also needs to be synced, which should happen as stuff gets sorted through

Good luck w' dat. :P

-Lyn-

oh, yeah, thanks... it won't be easy considering all the changes, unknowns, and undecideds :P

(as an aside, hope you're well Lyanna, you're missed :P )

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My internet has been down for a bit, but now I'm back on track again.

 

General overhaul

Hopefully I will have an outline ready by the end of next week.

 

Specifics

About the wiki: starting to look good, but I don't have the time to go into it too much for the next few weeks.

About the main storyline: there will be a condensed version for the main EL web site, and then some reference material collected in Encyclopedia Draia. Some stories have to be slightly modified but most of it is done in my view.

Future story witers: there will always be a need for stories and stuff, but there will be little or no need for historical timeline writings. I would like to see more day-to-day stories concerning different parts of Draia, like what happened to that leatherworker in Salingen in Palon Vertas when she went to Sedicolis to peddle her wares?

Edited by Derin

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Some stories have to be slightly modified but most of it is done in my view.

that all depends on how much is read and meshed in... there's a huge amount of older work that'd be nice to have but will need to be modified to fit the larger and more recent stuff

Future story witers: there will always be a need for stories and stuff, but there will be little or no need for historical timeline writings. I would like to see more day-to-day stories concerning different parts of Draia, like what happened to that leatherworker in Salingen in Palon Vertas when she went to Sedicolis to peddle her wares?

sure, but there are still parts in the main timeline that are unwritten; and more will show up.

plus we want anyone writing even the little stories to know what's happened (it's no good if a story includes a bit of reminiscing by an old soldier of the great war... and then the author finds out that part of it doesn't fit in. that sort of thing)

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Some stories have to be slightly modified but most of it is done in my view.

that all depends on how much is read and meshed in... there's a huge amount of older work that'd be nice to have but will need to be modified to fit the larger and more recent stuff

Future story witers: there will always be a need for stories and stuff, but there will be little or no need for historical timeline writings. I would like to see more day-to-day stories concerning different parts of Draia, like what happened to that leatherworker in Salingen in Palon Vertas when she went to Sedicolis to peddle her wares?

sure, but there are still parts in the main timeline that are unwritten; and more will show up.

plus we want anyone writing even the little stories to know what's happened (it's no good if a story includes a bit of reminiscing by an old soldier of the great war... and then the author finds out that part of it doesn't fit in. that sort of thing)

 

Yep, that is true. I'll be working on that for the next couple of days.

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Due to system maintenance EL Wiki will be unusuable on Monday, 16th of January 6:30-7:00 GMT. Don't be surprised, my uni is securing the DB server. :hehe:

 

With Regards

Lachesis

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I planned to continue this work, but unfortunately the SQL database seems to be broken, which basically means we will have to start again from scratch. I'm planning to do that and I'm about to set up a new MediaWiki. I urge all those that contributed to the original wiki to do that again.

 

with regards,

kl4Uz

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