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Entropy

Regarding the forums

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As many of you can see, our forums became, with time, a garbage bin. The players are insulting other players, moderators, and the developers.

Common sense and decency seems something that is lost in this brave new world.

As such, we have to take some measures, otherwise things will degenerate even further.

If you go on the websites of major, successful MMORPGs, commercial or not, you will notice that most of them do NOT have official forums. It's a pain in the ass to moderate them, they are an extra worry, you have to pay higher hosting fees due to the extra bandwidth, and, ultimately, it's not worth it.

 

The plans are as follows:

1. Pay someone to make a php portal system with the following features:

a. A very minimal auction like system, to replace the Marketplace forum.

b. A system to add news, announcement, and the rules.

c. A wikipedia to help the newbies, and replace the Help me forum.

d. A place where the mods can post on why someone was banned. There will be no need for people to defend themselves, because most of the defense is the standard "my brother/sister/cat" did it, or the slightly more creative: "I just went to the kitchen to get a glass of milk while I was banned for AFK harvesting". So if you get banned, then you get banned, and that's it.* Just like in the pre WW2 Germany.

e. A place for players to report bugs, possibly using the Berlios system.

f. A place where people can post fan based stories.

 

* We will make sure though that the moderators will follow the rules, and when in doubt they have to asks us first and then, based on our feedback, ban. Possibly a warning system for the users will be put in place, where if you get 3 'black balls' you get banned for a week, and if you get 5 then you get banned forever.

 

2. Set up some special forums for the developers (programming, music, maps, etc.). The admins will have to approve any new subscription to that forum.

 

3. The current forums will be locked, and the new registrations will be disabled.

 

4. After a while (a few months to 1 year) the existing forums will be deleted.

 

Oh, yes, and this is not debatable. If you don't like it, go play other games.

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Leeloo, quell and me could do that using only ACP, without some weird things.

There is man pages editor, permissions, guidelines, advanced moderation tools, portal

- alot of things, that just needed a person who knows what to do and takes cares of it.

I was even writing automoderator AI bot that I planned to connect to the forum when

I was a forum admin.

 

Regards.

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Thanks for the info Platyna, but I'd rather have a special application taylored specifically for our needs, and our needs alone. I will get someone capable of implementing the aforementioned things.

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I think you missed the point here. We are trying to move away from the notion of *FORUMS*

What we are trying to achieve is having a web interface designed to fulfill the purpose it was created for (such as auctions, help, bans, etc.) without providing a place where people can express their views and oppinions.

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Anyway, back on topic: I think that forum were the last gathering of the EL community.

Alot of people who has left the game were on forums talking with each other, of course

few kiddies destroyed it, there are no Learner or Cicero to take care about the forum.

And that what I have stated above I could prove on living example to not be accused that

I am only a smart ass. This forum needs simply an admin to back to some decent intellectual

level.

 

Regards.

Edited by Platyna

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Also you said, this is not debatable, I want to take the freedom and add my two cents ;)

d. A place where the mods can post on why someone was banned. There will be no need for people to defend themselves, because most of the defense is the standard "my brother/sister/cat" did it, or the slightly more creative: "I just went to the kitchen to get a glass of milk while I was banned for AFK harvesting". So if you get banned, then you get banned, and that's it.* Just like in the pre WW2 Germany.

I think there's a need for people to defend themself. If they only come with the standard excuse, you will know very well, they are only going to lie in most cases and can easily remove such posts within a few days. If they come with some really creative excuses, there may be even something to laugh :D

But keeping them shut down, with pre WW2 nazi methods is imho no solution. People sometimes felt pissed on, whether they are right or not doesn't really matter. It's always subject to the individual point of view. And someone might seriously think s/he is right, even if s/he is wrong. Then they need a place to talk about it. If such a place is missing, they might even get pissed more and it will not be of any good, neither for the community nor for the game, I think.

 

The other points sound very good from my point of view and I think it will be more comfortable for anybody, if things get split up partially, instead of having anything in one place. I would really welcome a separate developer forum, as well as a wiki for helping newbies.

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sorry, but I really have to agree with Malaclypse. I approve everything else on the list, but I think players should have the chance to deffend themselves. Mods and NHs are human, they are not perfect. And even though they got picked, and everybody thoght they were siants and trusted themm they are human. And they can also lie just as easily as any other human. I understand if any mods or NHs would get mad a me for this, but this is not an opinion, this is a fact. Some times, people are just mean, or they are power-crazed, whatever. But they are human. And as humans, they are far from perfect. Having a special rank does not change that, and they, just like anyone else, can, and probably will, lie. Just what I thought should be said.

 

-Kinger

 

P.S.: sorry, but that WW" German example really sucked. I don't think I would want to be controlled by someone willing to kill 6 million people! ;):D

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P.S.: sorry, but that WW" German example really sucked. I don't think I would want to be controlled by someone willing to kill 6 million people! ;):D

It's called sarcasm :D

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Yes mods are human but I think you also have to consider that we do try our hardest to do the right thing. Not always are there other mods to consult with, and also sometimes there are ambiguous rules and miscommunications. Also you may only know one side of the story, and not know an offender's past either. Maybe instead of being so fast to assume the worst, you could remember we are here because we love the game and really do try to do what we think is best at that time.

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Then if they REALLY think they've been baned without a good reason they can contact me or Roja.

 

YAY! that seems good to me!

 

P.S.: sorry, but that WW" German example really sucked. I don't think I would want to be controlled by someone willing to kill 6 million people! ;):D

It's called sarcasm :D

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. :D

 

Yes mods are human but I think you also have to consider that we do try our hardest to do the right thing. Not always are there other mods to consult with, and also sometimes there are ambiguous rules and miscommunications. Also you may only know one side of the story, and not know an offender's past either. Maybe instead of being so fast to assume the worst, you could remember we are here because we love the game and really do try to do what we think is best at that time.

 

Please understand that I am not trying to offend any of you. I am just stating something very clear to me. While lots of people may be all tangled up like this, I acknowledge completely the existence of decent people. And I am sure there are plenty of them here, Aislinn. :) Please, I guess I should have mentioned this before, but allthough I may be quite cheerfull, I am rarely optimistic. I try not to offend anyone, but to state a fact that has become clearer to me each day... :( I will, not, however, take back my initial comments, but will always provide both sides with the benefit of doubt. I respect everyone, but I am not a trusting person, thanks to rl experiences. Sorry if I offended anyone, and I hope you undertand what I mean.

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We will cope.

 

If this makes it easier for you guys to make the game and community better for us, then I am behind you 100%.

 

I would hope that there would be a comprehensive list to guild and fan boards though, so that the community can still gather around and chew the fat, as it were.

 

Anyways, thanks for the heads up.

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The guilds page on the website also lists the guilds web address, if the guild owner choses to fill it out.

So then each guild can have it's own forums, etc. If some people will put up independent forums, and keep them civil, we will also link to them from the main page, BUT they will be unofficial, and we will not support them in any other way than the aforementioned link.

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"my brother/sister/cat"

Never heard my cat did it before although my cat has spammed messages on my computer :) Well ill miss the forums but what can i say.

 

 

EDIT: Will there be a PM systemin this new "Forum" if not will you make a way to say "mail" people messages ingame using a mailing sytem because i find the PM on the forum usefull so if u need to tell some one something but there not on..

Edited by Rebel

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If you go on the websites of major, successful MMORPGs, commercial or not, you will notice that most of them do NOT have official forums. It's a pain in the ass to moderate them, they are an extra worry, you have to pay higher hosting fees due to the extra bandwidth, and, ultimately, it's not worth it.

 

In the section of Entropy's post that I quoted, he mentioned that most major successful MMORPG's don't have official forums, now what I would like to know...which ones?

 

Runescape: http://forum.runescape.com/aff/runescape/i...9569/index.html

 

RYL: http://forums.ryl.net/

 

EVE Online: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp

 

City of Heroes: https://boards.cityofheroes.com/ubbthreads.php

 

Everquest: http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq

 

Anarchy Online: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/

 

WoW: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/

 

and that's just the beginning. So far the only major MMORPG's that I haven't been able to find a forum for is Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot. And while both are major MMORPG's on their own, I don't think they qualify as "MOST". I feel that when you remove the forum, you're doing the community a injustice. When you say it's not even debatable, it's even worse. And yes, I realize that even though you SAID it wasn't debatable, we're debating it. Why? Because the forums is an integral part of our game play.

 

Sincerely,

Goliath Cobalt

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I think the majority of the older players continue to play because of the community. When we have done everything in the game that can be done what else is there? Whether you agree or not the forum plays a very large part of keeping this community together. You had said that the guilds could use their own forums, but I see that as dividing the community. In a community as large a EL there is bound to be people that will argue. You of all people should understand that it is healthy to debate things in a neutral space. I remember debating with you about Bush and the war for months. We would not have had that opportunity with out this forum. I really hope you reconsider.

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*Cries* "No more EL forum..." Sniffels...

 

So sad, I enjoyed the forums... occasionaly you could have an actual inteligent conversation and get information from people that was interesting and entertaining... I'm gonna miss the EL forums...

 

*Sobbs* Bye Bye EL forums, it's been an experience and one that I'll truely miss.

 

NeoSeS

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Then if they REALLY think they've been baned without a good reason they can contact me or Roja.

That is quite naive. You should know that you'd be spammed with messages from kids thinking they've been banned unfairly/abused.

 

I would prefer if the forums would stay as well; but if it can't be any different, we should keep the development related forums and abuse/bans section, then just get rid of general chat, off topic, etc.

I know you hate the flames and that this was not the reason why you created the game/forums, but everyone else is just ignoring them - could you at least try to do the same?

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How about handing over these forums to someone or more people that want to take care of it, remove some sections like announcements, bans, etc. and call it unofficial so you dont have to worry about it?

 

or get some mod to make a new one because we will need a forum to talk about el and other things and it would be nice if it was just one good one, not hundred of different crappy ones

 

of course

few kiddies destroyed it

afcourse you didnt notice that this is happening just after you spammed, flamed and terrorized the foums by avoiding bans for a couple of weeks <_<

Edited by shasso

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How about handing over these forums to someone or more people that want to take care of it, remove some sections like announcements, bans, etc. and call it unofficial so you dont have to worry about it?

 

or get some mod to make a new one because we will need a forum to talk about el and other things and it would be nice if it was just one good one, not hundred of different crappy ones

Then set some forums up on EL.net?

 

 

As to auction, I'd just use http://www.phpauction.org/gpl.php and start snipping things out.

Edited by crusadingknight

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