Banned without warning

[Guest Buzz]

from chat_log.txt: (irrelevant chat removed)

 

[19:56:00] [buzz @ 1]: wow sweet a gold cheat! hold ctrl and type: QUICKCASH

[19:56:25] [buzz @ 1]: muahaha!

[19:56:33] <5:23>: Disconnected from server!

[19:56:33] Press Alt-x to close the game

[19:56:33] You were booted by Usl!

 

Okay, admittedly, it was a crude and tasteless joke, but it was just that: a joke! Some Mods need to grow a sense of humor!

 

My complaints are as follows:

 

1) Apparently this somehow violates rule #6: Use Appropriate Names, which was the highlighted rule that I got to stare at for 60 seconds. How do my actions violate that rule?

 

2) After careful examination of the rules, I found no rule that says 'Thou shalt not be a jerk' or even 'Thou shalt not play pranks'. So what rule exactly did I break?

2a)I suppose a Mod could argue that I was sharing cheat information, but my counter is that it is NOT a working cheat, therefore no cheat information was actually shared.

 

3) Exactly 8 seconds from my last post, I was banned, without warning or any form of communication whatsoever. I feel I should have been warned at the very least.

 

For these reasons, I request that my ban be reviewed and lifted, and that the Mod who banned me be reprimanded. Just because you have the BanHammer does NOT mean you should hit players with it willy-nilly.

 

-Buzz

[Guest Buzz]

I did a little more research in the Rules forum...

 

from http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7300

 

WARNINGS

1. Overall, we should #rule or #or (overrule leaves a log, rule does not) first, also a pm or mpm is considered a warning as well.

2. In a channel, when multiple people are needing a warning, a public channel warning to the channel in general IS considered an official warning.

3. Things such as (but not limited to) modbashing, gamebashing, or private dev info, do not even require a warning, you can just mute/denoob/kick/boot them as soon as you see them do it.

4. Things such as (but not limited to) spamming, argumentative/disruptive behavior, ingame secrets, or obscene language for first-time offenders should get a warning first. If they don't listen and do it again, they do NOT need more warnings.

5. Repeat troublemakers: These people do NOT need a warning, there is a HUGE difference between the random offense or unintended offense (which will get a warning unless drastic as mentioned above) and the repeat troublemaker. Repeat offenders with a pattern of (intentional ?) rule breaking will be punished accordingly and without warning upon commission.

 

Does this not make it clear that a certain Mod may have actually violated more rules in banning me than were broken in my alleged offence?

 

For the record, I can fully understand that my actions were in poor taste, and I will not pull any stunts like that again. I am simply trying to have a ban lifted that I feel was unnecessary.

 

-Buzz

[Learner]

While I'm not the mod handling your case, I should warn you that we do take a VERY dim view of anything that may scare new players away. Channel 1 is about the worst possible place for a joke of that nature, not to mention breaking the rules for what the intent of channel 1 is for.

[Usl]

from chat_log.txt: (irrelevant chat removed)

 

[19:56:00] [buzz @ 1]: wow sweet a gold cheat! hold ctrl and type: QUICKCASH

[19:56:25] [buzz @ 1]: muahaha!

 

2) After careful examination of the rules, I found no rule that says 'Thou shalt not be a jerk' or even 'Thou shalt not play pranks'. So what rule exactly did I break?

 

You violated rules 3 (Do not patronize, mislead, or take advantage of people as they become acquainted with the environment and make beginner's mistakes), 25 (Do not cause problems on purpose that require the attention of the moderators) and 27.1.1 (The Newbie Help Channel is for newbie questions and answers only). The fact that you were shown rule 6 was, in fact, a technical error.

 

Interestingly, the very same page you quote in reference to warnings, lists "2. The purpose of Newbie Help channel is just that, newbie help. It does not matter if a newbie is asking a question or not at that time, it is still ONLY newbie help. It is up to the moderator(s) in the channel to keep it that way." Sad that you missed it in your careful examination of the rules.

 

It was pretty clear from your actions (especially the "muahaha") that you were perfectly conscious that your stupid "joke" was aimed at causing discomfort to others, and in particular to new players (since you posted on @1, of all 2 billion channels). Let me state this very clearly: if you plan to have fun of that sort, especially at the expenses of newbies, you are not welcome to stay in this game.

 

 

3) Exactly 8 seconds from my last post, I was banned, without warning or any form of communication whatsoever. I feel I should have been warned at the very least.

Since you have had by now a good chance of perusing the rules, you will have noticed that the guidelines about warnings are exactly that - guidelines. I am sure you have noticed by now the "Overall, we should [give a warning first]". I am also sure you noticed the "There is a HUGE difference between the random offense or unintended offense [...]". In your case, the offense was totally intentional.

 

For these reasons, I request that my ban be reviewed and lifted, and that the Mod who banned me be reprimanded. Just because you have the BanHammer does NOT mean you should hit players with it willy-nilly.

 

It is unfortunate for you that I am generally known to be extremely tolerant and lenient. In fact, yours was not intended to be the standard 1-month ban, but a stopgap measure to avoid further trouble from you (or any of your alts - a subject that we might want to discuss separately at some point) until I could talk to you and ensure that we will not have reasons to regret your presence in-game in the future (as in the past).

 

Now, I had originally intended to lift the lock on Buzz (none of your other characters had been locked) after this discussion, provided you could assure me that you would not try to mislead new players in the future. Can you provide me such assurance?

 

On a different front, I do not want to interfere with your appeal to Aislinn for my reprimand, so another option is to leave things as they are until that one is decided. Just a quick note: in so doing, you violated also rule 27 (Moderation is never a topic for public discussion); technically you were supposed to file a complaint against my judgement to Aislinn via a private message. However, I personally have no problems with my judgement being questioned in public, and also I am on that in a clear conflict of interest, so I will take no actions on that respect.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Usl

[Aislinn]

A quick comment on your 2a. point:

 

Intent to commit a "crime" with failure is just as bad as success. Just because you fail doesn't make it any less intended.

 

I agree with Usl. You obviously knew cheats weren't allowed. If this is your idea of fun, this is not the place for you. But I think you already know that?

 

We view cheating even more dimly than we view taking advantage of, hurting, and scaring newbies away.

 

You are lucky you got Usl as the moderator in question. Really.

[Guest Buzz]

You violated rules 3 (Do not patronize, mislead, or take advantage of people as they become acquainted with the environment and make beginner's mistakes), 25 (Do not cause problems on purpose that require the attention of the moderators) and 27.1.1 (The Newbie Help Channel is for newbie questions and answers only). The fact that you were shown rule 6 was, in fact, a technical error.

 

A technical error makes sense...I couldn't really imagine that the name 'Buzz' was somehow inappropriate.

 

While I do not disagree with your assessment completely, I feel that applying rule 25 is somewhat unfair, since my point is the only attention required was typing '/Buzz thats not tolerated' or some equivalent. More attention was required after your actions, not mine.

 

It was pretty clear from your actions (especially the "muahaha") that you were perfectly conscious that your stupid "joke" was aimed at causing discomfort to others, and in particular to new players (since you posted on @1, of all 2 billion channels). Let me state this very clearly: if you plan to have fun of that sort, especially at the expenses of newbies, you are not welcome to stay in this game.

 

Since you have had by now a good chance of perusing the rules, you will have noticed that the guidelines about warnings are exactly that - guidelines. I am sure you have noticed by now the "Overall, we should [give a warning first]". I am also sure you noticed the "There is a HUGE difference between the random offense or unintended offense [...]". In your case, the offense was totally intentional.

 

I was not aware that there is more than one chat channel. Be that as it may, I'm not disputing my actions at all. What bothers me about your statement: you appear to be saying that while we players have to follow your rules to the letter at all times (under threat of banning, no less), Mods are free to /ignore their 'guidelines' whenever they please. Feel free to correct me, but that's what I understood from your words. What puts you above the law? You're no different than any other human being.

 

It is unfortunate for you that I am generally known to be extremely tolerant and lenient. In fact, yours was not intended to be the standard 1-month ban, but a stopgap measure to avoid further trouble from you (or any of your alts - a subject that we might want to discuss separately at some point) until I could talk to you and ensure that we will not have reasons to regret your presence in-game in the future (as in the past).

 

Excuse me? You're 'extremely tolerant and lenient'? I'd hate to meet the hard-ass of your team! And how exactly is it 'unfortunate' if I actually did get a tolerant, lenient mod?

 

As for the alts, if you continue checking the logs pertaining to my char, you'll notice that I asked in #help_me about deleting chars, and I actually removed one as a test. It's not my intent to have a bunch of little mini-me's running around, but as a new player, I was 'testing the waters', so to speak. Have I broken any rules? Is there an unspecified limit to the number of characters I am allowed to create? Please clarify the issue for me.

 

Finally, what past? Do you have me mistaken for another player? Or are you referring to the topic in discussion?

 

Now, I had originally intended to lift the lock on Buzz (none of your other characters had been locked) after this discussion, provided you could assure me that you would not try to mislead new players in the future. Can you provide me such assurance?

 

I had, in fact, noticed that my IP wasn't locked, and I suppose thanks are in order. I admitted twice that I knew my actions were uncouth, and once that I wouldn't do that sort of thing again. What more assurance can I provide? If you can think of something, I will certainly consider it, short of having myself tarred and feathered in the town square.

 

On a different front, I do not want to interfere with your appeal to Aislinn for my reprimand, so another option is to leave things as they are until that one is decided. Just a quick note: in so doing, you violated also rule 27 (Moderation is never a topic for public discussion); technically you were supposed to file a complaint against my judgement to Aislinn via a private message. However, I personally have no problems with my judgement being questioned in public, and also I am on that in a clear conflict of interest, so I will take no actions on that respect.

 

I apologise for that statement, and retract my request for reprimand. I was angry about how I was treated. Also, I misunderstood the meaning of rule 27; I thought that meant in-game discussion, as was mentioned when I #help_me'd later...In fact, I was told to come to the forums to discuss the matter! All of this should be in the server logs, right?

 

Have you ever served time in the military? You really, really remind me of one of my drill sergeants...He was born without a sense of humor, too

 

A quick comment on your 2a. point:

 

Intent to commit a "crime" with failure is just as bad as success. Just because you fail doesn't make it any less intended.

 

I agree with Usl. You obviously knew cheats weren't allowed. If this is your idea of fun, this is not the place for you. But I think you already know that?

 

We view cheating even more dimly than we view taking advantage of, hurting, and scaring newbies away.

 

You are lucky you got Usl as the moderator in question. Really.

 

There is no crime to commit! No cheat codes = no crime! All I could possibly have done is inconvenienced a few players that have, in the process, shown their intent to cheat themselves!

 

How many times and ways must I be berated? I respect that being a GM is a thankless, time-consuming job, but is it really necessary to be so...(is militant the right word?). Seriously, you guys (or girls, as the case may be) need to go spend some time on thecomedynetwork.com (I strongly recommend Jeff Dunham, if he doesn't make you laugh, there's no hope for you)!

 

In closing: yes, I admit my actions, and I admit that they were not fair to new players. I apologise for them, and I will never try anything like it again. But, why all the angst and unfriendliness over what boils down to a simple practical joke? I would like to say that if this experience is typical of interactions with the Mods, I will likely not play this game often, nor will I be inclined to contribute any monies to its development. Furthermore, I would certainly not recommend such experiences to any friends. I truly hope that my first impressions are completely wrong.

 

/end-rant

 

On a positive note, I feel that this discussion was at least fair, and the explanations given so far are not wholly inaccurate. The fact that there is a place where I can discuss my perceived mistreatment is something I like quite a lot.

 

Today is laundry/cleanup day for me anyway, so its not like I'm itching to get back in-game. Take your time, enjoy a little weekend, maybe crack a smile or two...I'll check back here in a few hours...

 

-Buzz

[Guest Buzz]

After re-reading my post, I apologise if my indignation comes across as surliness (or anything other than indignation, really). I feel justified in said indignation, and wanted to get that feeling out...

[Guest Buzz]

"There is a HUGE difference between the random offense or unintended offense and the repeat offender."

 

At least try to stay in context

 

sorry, but that stuck in my mind...

 

-Buzz

[Aislinn]

Funny is in the eye of the beholder...

[Guest Buzz]

Funny is in the eye of the beholder...

...provided the beholder has a sense of humor.

[Usl]

Now, I had originally intended to lift the lock on Buzz (none of your other characters had been locked) after this discussion, provided you could assure me that you would not try to mislead new players in the future. Can you provide me such assurance?

 

I had, in fact, noticed that my IP wasn't locked, and I suppose thanks are in order. I admitted twice that I knew my actions were uncouth, and once that I wouldn't do that sort of thing again. What more assurance can I provide?

No need for more assurance; I am satisfied that you have understood where the problem was, and that you now have a better appreciation of where the line separating sense of humor from causing discomfort to other players lies.

 

Regarding all your other questions (e.g., whether mods are subject to in-game rules, what the difference between rules and modding guidelines is, whether I do smile ever, etc.) -- I will be available in-game for discussing these. Based on the depth and civil tone of your posts, I guess we could even go well together. Incidentally, yes - I have served in the military.

 

Buzz is unlocked, no other character was affected, and rest assured that there is nothing personal on my part.

[Guest Buzz]

 

Regarding all your other questions (e.g., whether mods are subject to in-game rules, what the difference between rules and modding guidelines is, whether I do smile ever, etc.) -- I will be available in-game for discussing these. Based on the depth and civil tone of your posts, I guess we could even go well together. Incidentally, yes - I have served in the military.

 

Buzz is unlocked, no other character was affected, and rest assured that there is nothing personal on my part.

 

Thank you for the unlock, and thanks as well for the complement. It was never my intent to be disrespectful at any time, and I'm mature enough to know the difference between a debate and an argument.

 

Still waiting on forum validation, btw, so if you could nudge the appropriate people that'd be great...

 

-Buzz

[Aislinn]

Consider me nudged.

I was waiting to see how this conversation went first. It's a lot easier to monitor angry spam in one section rather than all over forums from an approved account.

[Buzz]

Completely understandable. Though we got off to a bit of a rocky start, I think you guys(/girls) will find I'll not be a hinderance to the community.

 

-Buzz

 

(yay my first official post!)