High level monsters adjustment

[korrode]

Yeah i was watching Seph do that, i was AMAZED that at 44/82 he had to use a steel long to get in most hits but do minimum damage, based on my tests a steel long is the equivalent of about 10 more might... that makes f.chim need more might than yeti if i'm right!?!?!? (some yeti trainer please correct me if i'm wrong, but i didnt think Yeti needed ~44/100 p/c to box it?! i though it was a bit less)...

 

perhaps lowering f.chim(and m.chim?) toughness a bit...

[Ambrosius]

I'm not the smartest high-end trainer,but I will give you my insight on the f.chim.

At around 44/82 108/110 I still could not box/bone this chim well,it'd be a bunch of def/flee's and me mainly hitting a crit. every once and a while.It wouldn't really make me restore maybe once if it hit some more crits.

But with that chim that was never a prob. cause MD

 

Its because the FC has a lot of armour (or thoughness).....when boxing/bone your hits simply dont make enough dmg to get thru the FC's armour/thougness. When your not making dmg that means no xp.

Youll see when you raise your might (raise phy or coord) that you can hit them fine because you make more dmg and get thru their armour/thougness.

[agis29]

Yeah i was watching Seph do that, i was AMAZED that at 44/82 he had to use a steel long to get in most hits but do minimum damage, based on my tests a steel long is the equivalent of about 10 more might... that makes f.chim need more might than yeti if i'm right!?!?!? (some yeti trainer please correct me if i'm wrong, but i didnt think Yeti needed ~44/100 p/c to box it?! i though it was a bit less)...

 

perhaps lowering f.chim(and m.chim?) toughness a bit...

 

If the toughness or the armour was lowered and the health level of the chim was remaining the same it wouldnt give any exp at all. 108/110 a/d is too low for this chim anyway.

I think that the second muffo was training on yetis with p/c 40/80 and tit short.

Edited July 10, 2007 by agis29

[Gohan]

What you are saying sounds right. But it seems that the chances to lose an item doesnt depend from the times you are hit. Cyclops destroy more items than fluffies although cyclops can hardly hit someone.

I think that it has to do with "critical to damage".

 

I am rather sure it has to do with it that even Cyclops trainers these days don't know what low-end armor is. If you take a hit and your steel/tit plate set reduces the damage you take to 0, you did still take a hit and have a chance to degrade/break your pretty armor.

 

And no, it is NOT so that if your armor reduces the damage to 0 that you get defense exp. Because sometimes I don't get damage on a monster but I don't get def and the next attack I do get def exp.

 

So, 0 damage, hit is still there, your armor still breaks.

 

-Blee

 

 

EDIT:

108/110 a/d is too low for this chim anyway.

Please wake up and get a clue. I'm same def and higher attack and if I were able to actually hit through it high armor, I'd be able to train on them instead of fluffies.

Edited July 10, 2007 by BleedingSoul

[korrode]

Firstly, Blee's statements are correct, i dont consider this opinion, i consider it tested fact.

 

If the toughness or the armour was lowered and the health level of the chim was remaining the same it wouldnt give any exp at all.

Any at all?... erm, is this sarcasm or what Agis? lowering its toughness/armor just means u have less p/c to barefist it and do minimum damage... it doesn't effect exp as such.

[agis29]

What you are saying sounds right. But it seems that the chances to lose an item doesnt depend from the times you are hit. Cyclops destroy more items than fluffies although cyclops can hardly hit someone.

I think that it has to do with "critical to damage".

 

I am rather sure it has to do with it that even Cyclops trainers these days don't know what low-end armor is. If you take a hit and your steel/tit plate set reduces the damage you take to 0, you did still take a hit and have a chance to degrade/break your pretty armor.

 

And no, it is NOT so that if your armor reduces the damage to 0 that you get defense exp. Because sometimes I don't get damage on a monster but I don't get def and the next attack I do get def exp.

 

So, 0 damage, hit is still there, your armor still breaks.

 

-Blee

 

 

EDIT:

108/110 a/d is too low for this chim anyway.

Please wake up and get a clue. I'm same def and higher attack and if I were able to actually hit through it high armor, I'd be able to train on them instead of fluffies.

 

I had the same results either using steel chainmail, either using augm pants or full titanium.Cyclops destroy more often items than fluffies.And chims destroy items more often than feros.Btw i know when the monster is scoring me a hit and when not.

It seems that the monsters that destroy armour more often are these:

 

1) armed skellies

2) armed male gobs

3) hobgolins

4) trolls

5) cyclops

6) chims

 

A player when he was 60's had his serp degraded from a woodsprite!!!Dont tell me that the wood sprite scored him a hit.Maybe i am wrong.Maybe its a combination from the things we mentioned. I dont know for sure.

 

We didnt say anything different about chims. But the problem isnt only to by pass the chims armour but to avoid hits also. At 110 def its very difficult unless u have negs. Chims have 115 attack btw.With my crappy p/c although i have this a/d level i cant avoid hits even with good armour.

Edited July 10, 2007 by agis29

[Gohan]

A player i know that he was 60's had his serp degraded from a woodsprite!!!Dont tell me that the wood sprite scored him a hit.

 

O..k.. So you think it's normal that when you're punched in the face your sword breaks.. Obviously, swords are rather likely to break when you HIT with them, not when you get hit.. that would seem an pretty normal logic.. no?

 

Monsters more likely to break stuff then others? Really, I still call this bad luck.

Armors and weapons have break rates. It's not the monsters that have a "break something" rate.

 

Chims have 115 attack btw.

 

I hope you don't mean all chims, or you deserve a spanking. Btw, check out the a/d thread somewhere here in this forum, I made it. I know a/d of MANY of ELs creatures and have a full/near full list on my computers somewhere.

 

Quick listed: (As well as I remember them, these were chimmies a/d)

Desert chim - 100/100

Forest chim - 110/100 (not 100% sure about this one, I'd need to double check but I'm lazy today.)

Mountain chim - 115/115

Arctic chim - 130/130

 

-Blee

[agis29]

Yeah. i was talking about mountain chims. I can train on desert and forest arent that strong.but i need a cutlass for mountain

[sundulana]

if what some of you guys are saying then what explains this?

broke on feros:

2 titanium longs completely within 100 HEs

4 steel longs within 150 HEs

Edit: this with nmt

 

i also noticed a year ago that armed gobs breaks weapons more often than many other low lvl monsters.

 

yet i trained on fluffies for 3 lvls with degraded-serp and titanium long without a scratch.

(these didnt all take place within the same time period) Edit: this with no nmt

 

Any at all?... erm, is this sarcasm or what Agis? lowering its toughness/armor just means u have less p/c to barefist it and do minimum damage... it doesn't effect exp as such.

 

i think what he meant is that they will be killed quickly and so fluffy may be betteroff even with low p/c for the chims.

 

 

Sund

Edited July 10, 2007 by sundulana

[Gohan]

if what some of you guys are saying then what explains this?

broke on feros:

2 titanium longs completely within 100 HEs

4 steel longs within 150 HEs

 

Monsters more likely to break stuff then others? Really, I still call this bad luck.

Armors and weapons have break rates. It's not the monsters that have a "break something" rate.

 

Highlighted what you wanted to know.

 

-Blee

[sundulana]

blee i understand what you are saying, i'm just waiting for you to pull out a normal distribution statistical info. if this info is available, then it surely proves "bad luck". i dont think "bad luck" is just a simple explaination, but when proven, it is hard to disprove.

 

Sund

[Gohan]

Oh yes. Of course, have someone explain bad luck with statistical information.. that's a difficult one. Because luck is random, not something you can build statistics with. At least I can't.

 

I cannot prove this. But you'll just have to take it that luck really is a factor that plays in EL, wether is breaking stuff, winning the lottery, making enriched essences/potions or whatever, getting stones during harvests instead of damage, etc.

 

Everyone knows that every armor/weapon has a break rate.. if you're lucky, you'll do weeks with the same item.. have some bad luck, you break that item x3 on 2 days.

 

Silly example maybe.. but a while ago I was gonna do a few fluffies, on the first 20-30 (I think) I broke 3 augmented leather pants. After that it took me about 80 more fluffies to break another pants. That's all I can give you, but luck does play a factor.

 

-Blee

[korrode]

Based on my tests and IMO:

 

Blee is right about weapon breakage, just bad luck.

 

In regard to monsters that break armor, notice all the monsters mentioned so far as "breakers" hold a weapon.

Its my opinion that monsters that hold a weapon get bonuses to certain things just as we do when we use a weapon. One of those things being critical damage/critical hit, now i dont know for sure if armors have a higher chance to break on a crit, but i do know that these weapon holding monsters will simply hit you more, that alone means mathematically they will break more armor. For a long time clops hit me more often than fluffys, this has finally changed with my def level pushing far beyond whats needed for clops, but it's taken until 90's def for that to happen, and clops only has att 80.

 

EDIT:

except chims, i guess they dont hold a weapon... well, maybe they do, their claws and/or teeth could be considered weapons, by the game itself i mean.

Edited July 11, 2007 by Korrode

[Ryuu]

Yeah i was watching Seph do that, i was AMAZED that at 44/82 he had to use a steel long to get in most hits but do minimum damage, based on my tests a steel long is the equivalent of about 10 more might... that makes f.chim need more might than yeti if i'm right!?!?!? (some yeti trainer please correct me if i'm wrong, but i didnt think Yeti needed ~44/100 p/c to box it?! i though it was a bit less)...

 

perhaps lowering f.chim(and m.chim?) toughness a bit...

 

acctually 44/100 is about right for boxing yetis asuming around 125-130 def. Forest chim only doesn't get hit much by people with low p/c like 44/82 because of the armor, not toughness. Armor is pierced by critcal hits, so you'll not hit it then suddenly hit it very hard because the critical will go through the armor; much like cockatrice. That is why Phantom Warriors seem to not get hit alot, it's not from high coord or some magic perk, it's just uber armor.

 

Also, after yeti was reduced this last time, you will lose money boxing them unless you have alot of luck. most drops are extremely rare and gc was reduced, from 0-450 to 0-390. It may have been true at one point that yeti was a 'gc machine', but not now. it only looks good when compared to chims.

[agis29]

I think that phantoms have evanesence perk too.

If the armour of desert chims will be decreased they wont give any xp. Lowering the toughness-armour of a monster with 180 health it will be a disaster. Think that i can easily bypass their armour with crappy p/c.

All kind of chims should have higher health and faster respawning time to give better exp.

Maybe the armour of mountain chims should be decreased. If a player with p/c 44/88 cant bypass their armour then there is no reason to train on them.

Edited July 11, 2007 by agis29

[korrode]

44/100 is about right for boxing yetis asuming around 125-130 def. Forest chim only doesn't get hit much by people with low p/c like 44/82 because of the armor, not toughness.

thanks Senia. Well, i certainly dont think f.chim should need the same might as yeti's to barefist them...

 

If the armour of desert chims will be decreased they wont give any xp.

Agis... they would actually give the same exp, you'd just have to have less might to get it But i get your point and i'm not proposing d.chim armor/toughness be adjusted, i'm only talking about f.chim (and m.chim if it also need yeti trainer+ p/c to barefist).

 

 

Plain and simple:

You should need less might (p/c) to box m.chim than you do yeti.

You should need less might (p/c) to box f.chim than you do m.chim.

You should need less might (p/c) to box d.chim than you do f.chim.

 

It's logical and makes complete sense.

 

 

EDIT:

people with low p/c like 44/82

Sen, by the vast vast majority of EL player's standards, 44/82 aint low Edited July 11, 2007 by Korrode

[Michic0_oL]

this has already been said but i agree :

yeti respawn is too long... 1.30 mins ?

fluffy is 26 or 27 secs, it is ok but when u look at DCW, respawn time much longer for same xp (almost same)

feros respawn time 30 secs.

 

chimmys got too high p/c for the xp u get thats why i prefer ts and stay at my fluffy in CM ;p

 

about FC : i think it got too much vita so u don't hit it rly unless u got high phys ;p

 

maybe lower p/c of chimmys, dicrease respawn time and add nmt drops, people will go

 

and ppl don't go to thoses monsters even if they got same a/d coz they have much less p/c...

 

i think, just lower respawn time and add more accessible spawns could do... the 3 dcw always full for example

Edited July 11, 2007 by Michic0_oL

[Zamirah]

this has already been said but i agree :

 

the 3 dcw always full for example

Will be harder to get now that they drop rare items and with only 1 mchim in game.

People will come negged -19.

[sundulana]

Oh yes. Of course, have someone explain bad luck with statistical information.. that's a difficult one. Because luck is random, not something you can build statistics with. At least I can't.

 

I cannot prove this. But you'll just have to take it that luck really is a factor that plays in EL, wether is breaking stuff, winning the lottery, making enriched essences/potions or whatever, getting stones during harvests instead of damage, etc.

 

Everyone knows that every armor/weapon has a break rate.. if you're lucky, you'll do weeks with the same item.. have some bad luck, you break that item x3 on 2 days.

 

Silly example maybe.. but a while ago I was gonna do a few fluffies, on the first 20-30 (I think) I broke 3 augmented leather pants. After that it took me about 80 more fluffies to break another pants. That's all I can give you, but luck does play a factor.

 

-Blee

 

anything that convinced you is convincing enough imo. sorry for my misleading implication, i didnt meant to ask for a formal proof.

 

i do understand what you are trying to say about luck and totally agree. but the question i have is whether there are monsters with different break rates for weapons... not armor. of course there can always be bad luck along with monsters having different/same break rate since they are not necessarily exclusive events.

 

Sund

[Arkoren]

I looked forward to the possible changes with chims with great anticipation, because this could mean the end of my personal fluff/feros era. And with the changes announced i was first suprised that the DCW was adjusted and FC/MC remained the same, while the larger part of this topic is about those two critters and not DCW. But despite that i went off to test the DCW, and I am sorry to say that i returned a little disappointed.

 

If i now make a comparison between a DCW and a feros, feros still wins on ALL fronts.

Meaning; more xp per hour, more gc per hour (not counting in drops, as i suspect they will even out) while using far less HE and only needing half the number of flees. And on top of that a smaller risk of armour breakage. In short, feros means making money and nice xp, while DCW costs money and gives less xp.

And if I compare it with fluff, i would make a little less xp, but all the other points would still apply.

[agis29]

If chims change a bit more and give additional exp it would be nice. I dont know if this is possible.

The changes that ent made are positive. I dont know if i ll stop training on fluffies-feros yet but surely if spawns are full i ll search for a d.chim to train.

Maybe chims spawns should be removed closer to fluffies or 2 more chims could be added at the same spawn with fluffies.

So people would train on chims want it or not.

Edited July 14, 2007 by agis29