Underworld not only unnecessary, but also extremely annoying

[Guest]

Death is the one thing that basically destroys this game for me. i have died about 5 times, and each death is the same. I lose most of my items, and I am required to walk in circles, in a maze for 3 to 10 minutes, which is extremely boring, annoying, and frusterating. I think that it is enough that i lost half of my gold, which was in platinum coins after dying. i lost all of the platinum coins, none of my gold, and 3/4 of my items. I would say that the death penalty is most extreme. This is not nearly as bad as runescape was when i used to play it...over 3 years ago. I am about ready to leave this game and go on to another because whenever i die, i lose so much that its basically like starting the whole game all over again. Its completely rediculous. If something isnt changed soon, i will leave this game and not come back. I will just wait for Guild Wars to come out next year...a MMORPG with graphics that rival Everquest 2 and has no subscription fee...buy the game, and play online forever.

 

I do like this game overall, but I shouldnt have to go through this every time i die.

 

What I would recommend would be to make it so that you cant lose any items that you are wearing, for example, a weapon, a cloak, ring, or armor. I would also make it so that you couldnt lose any gold...INCLUDING platinum coins, which i lost all of. And the biggest problem and most unnecessary thing in the game is the underworld. Its a complete waste of time. Just walking around for 3 to 10 minutes doing absolutely nothing but trying to find a way out of hell and back into the living world, or half living...But this has frusterated me to the point to where if this is not changed soon, i will move on. I also think that players should have the option to whether or not they want pk turned on or off. i lost 3/4 of my items by being pk'd when i was trying to get to a store in white stone. Also, there shouldnt be animals like bears, rabbits, wolves, or monsters of any kind roaming around in the towns or cities, which i have seen, and have been killed by accidently clicking on them.

 

I realize that this game is only in alpha or beta and it seems to be doing well, but these issues are hindering its growth considerably. Runescape doesnt have this steep of a penalty when dying, and most other games that i have played dont have that steep of a penalty either. So i urge you to make adjustments to these parts of the game.

 

Thank you, and i hope that this will be taken into consideration, and not taken as offensive, as it is merily a suggestion and my personal opinion.

[GateKeepeR]

I do agree with the thing about not losing crap when you die.. I think that is totally stupid and pointless..

[Entropy]

It takes about 1 minute to get out of the udnerworld. Just walk North.

As for not losing your stuff, lol. Death should have a negative consequence, you know? You don't like to lose some of your items? Then don't die! Simple as that!

Also, in a [MMO]RPG, the items are not that important, what's really important is the skills/attributes.

[GateKeepeR]

they can be important entropy whenever you lose tons of gold and important things ;D

 

edit: or whenever you are a newbie and are so happy to get your new chainmail but you end up in the arena only to be killed by hades and your brand new chainmail u worked so hard on is stolen... also ent: where is hades these days? rumor has it.. you banned him?

[Entropy]

No, I didn't ban him.

Newbies don't lose anything, until level 6 (or is it 7?) combat. After that level, you should be smart enough to know where are the PK places, and/or what animals are likely to kill you.

[GateKeepeR]

I wish he would come back, because he is only level 30 30 30 and in a few days I'm gonna be able to seek revenge if he ever decides to come back

 

also: since we are kind of on this topic, is it legal to kill people lower level than you if they come into the arena and steal their stuff?

[Entropy]

Yes, it is legal to kill anyone you want, in PK maps.

[Guest]

would it be possible Entrophy to at least make it so that you can lose anything in your backpack, but nothing you are currently wearing, or any gold and ESPECIALLY platinum coins...which is also currency, but is all lost when you die. so please, if anything, make this change alone. this is all that i am really asking for. that way, you get what you want...there is a death penalty, like in texas, but its not completely fatal, and is considered much less harsh. This change alone would make things much more bearable for me, and others. As for the comment if you dont want to lose anything, then dont die, which i personally find to be a rude statement as it is suggesting one of those all or nothing points of views, which is kind of childish. I will admit that i view certain things in that way, but this game you are creating is not just for those types of people. You need to realize that you are trying to appeal to not a certain type of people who view things your way, but a broad range of people who think differently and have much different views of the world than others may think.

 

But I believe that by granting me and the other testers requests from time to time, and i believe that this one is reasonable. And by taking in the opinions of the people who are testing the game for you, it lets the players feel as if they are contributing towards the success of the game, and that their voices may be heard. So I urge you to make these few changes. All that I am asking for is to make it so that all items that are being worn, such as swords, armor, gloves, rings, etc. And that gold and platinum coins cant be dropped by death. If they can, then please make it so that a reasonable amount falls...such as 10 or 20% of it, but not all of it. You can keep the underworld if you want, but i would like the amount of items dropped by death reduced significantly. But dropping about 75% of all items, including all platinum coins IS a bit excessive in my opinion.

 

All i am trying to do is advise you as a tester as to what to do in order to improve the game for the masses. I am not trying to criticize, irritate, frusterate, or be rude to you in any way. All i am trying to do is to help. I hope that you will take this into consideration, and I give you my compliments for making a game, that in its early beta stage, is much better in many ways than Runescape.

[Entropy]

You might be surprised that if a lot of people complain about something, I change it, to comply with their wishes.

That happened many times, most notably when they wanted me to increases the walking speed.

So far, very few people complained about the harsh penalty of death. Most of them DO expect to be punished when you die, because, duh, otherwise people wouldn't fear death. No one forces you to fight, and you can very well play the game without being a fighter.

You can either avoid PK areas, and the dangerous maps, or store your stuff in the storage, when you go to dangerous places. That's what most of the people do. Half of the game maps are not dangerous.

Besides, in EL the death penalty is very small, compared to other games. In RS, you lose ALL your items, except for the most expensive 2 items, or ALL of them, if you just killed someone.

In Tibia, from what I heard, you lose TONS of EXP when you die, and all(?) your items as well.

In EL you have 50% chance to lose each item, which is not bad at all. And if you have the alchemist cape, the chance to lose items decreases to only 40%/item.

For obvious reasons, not losing what you wear is a VERY bad idea. Guess why.

[GateKeepeR]

Entropy , sorry to keep getting off the topic in threads, but I dont specifically like creating new threads for small things, but the alchemy cape, all it does is lower the chance to 40% but yet it costs 100 plat, I mean im starting to think capes are just there to look good, but then why do they cost so much =/ I say you should make the alchemy cape do more to fit its 100 plat price range =/

[Entropy]

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[Birkoff]

I think Underworld and death should be keep as they are now. I think it is very nice that way. If you dont loose things when you die, you will not worry to die, and will keep fighting and walking without think : "if i die, no problem, i dont loose anithing". I think the game should not becomo easy, it is very good like that. Of course, I get very angry when i loose something to a monster, but that makes me be more carefull next time. Real life is not easy, and if you die you do not have a new chance. In the game, at least, you have a new chance, that is not good enought? And aboult spending to many time in underworld: i get out in 1 minute... You just need to go North! It is very easy... But anyway, i think maybe we could think in some nice ideas to underworld... What about a NPC that sells healing? If you are a luck person and when you die you keep some money, ate least you can get out of underworld healed...

But the main idea of death and underworld i think is very good as it is now!

[Nidan]

Common, its not entropies fault that you are so stupid as to fight something you might die off, with all your money on you :shock:

Be serious! If you don't want to die, train on animals that you are sure you can kill. And if you want to try something else, first put in storage what you dont want to loose.

As said before, stats are way more important thatn some silly item. If you really deserved that item (high enough level) you can buy it again in no time, or just make a new one...

 

And the maze thing: i think you should be able to figure it out after dying 5 times. I know i did, when the first 6 rabbits killed me before i killed one of them. What would be the challenge if you could just attack a bear and say, darn, i lost, well i will just try again then...

Next thing your saying is that you should have your full health back after dying.

Not ment offensive, but imho this is BS.

 

just my 2 plats :roll:

[Thomas]

well if you truely want it to be cool in the underworld have an npc at the spawn points that you can talk to to learn how to get back.

[Guest]

well i dont mind a harsh penalty for dying but i dont think it should be randomized, like if u know what u would lose if u died(like the 3 item thing in rs) and also he/she has a point about accidently clicking on animals...extremely easy to do now that the beta has come out(imagine someone's frustration if they were just walking thru wsc, accidently click on a bear, then end up losing 100k worth of stuff) and the underworld is a good idea, but there needs to be more to it such as npcs like thomas and birkoff said. the underworld is pretty boring as it is now

[Guthix]

the last post was mine sorry

[Entropy]

I think you can select the eye icon, and the default ation will be view, isntead of attack.

[Guthix]

hmmm i never knew that thanks!

[smart!]

You might be surprised that if a lot of people complain about something, I change it, to comply with their wishes.

That happened many times, most notably when they wanted me to increases the walking speed.

So far, very few people complained about the harsh penalty of death. Most of them DO expect to be punished when you die, because, duh, otherwise people wouldn't fear death. No one forces you to fight, and you can very well play the game without being a fighter.

You can either avoid PK areas, and the dangerous maps, or store your stuff in the storage, when you go to dangerous places. That's what most of the people do. Half of the game maps are not dangerous.

Besides, in EL the death penalty is very small, compared to other games. In RS, you lose ALL your items, except for the most expensive 2 items, or ALL of them, if you just killed someone.

In Tibia, from what I heard, you lose TONS of EXP when you die, and all(?) your items as well.

In EL you have 50% chance to lose each item, which is not bad at all. And if you have the alchemist cape, the chance to lose items decreases to only 40%/item.

For obvious reasons, not losing what you wear is a VERY bad idea. Guess why.

cant newbies be safe even if they only wanna go to fur trader they always have to afraid that there maybe a gargoyle lose. cant the life of newbies be a bit easier with the now that, i wont die cause gargoyles are closed to the evil castle? (sorry for bit offtopic now)

[Velocet]

cant newbies be safe even if they only wanna go to fur trader they always have to afraid that there maybe a gargoyle lose. cant the life of newbies be a bit easier with the now that, i wont die cause gargoyles are closed to the evil castle? (sorry for bit offtopic now)

 

??

Gargoyles will not attack during the day outside of the maze. Just stay out of WSC at night or have an experienced player take you there at night. Simple.

 

As for dying, here is how i see it. First off, I like the Underworld. It serves its purpose by providing the player a place to go when they die and not just respawn at the campfire, it helps add atmosphere to the game and is fine the way it is.

 

Second, I realize that there are some games out there that have penalties for death more harsh than EL. But, I think that the way our system operates is a little misgiving for experienced and newbies alike in the way that one can be punished for exploring a new area. Yes, everyone should be smart enough to store important items, money and plats in the depot, and anything else they don't need while exploring a new area. But, if you are going to explore new places you are going to take maybe one weapon(one that you could lose if you have another), and of course you are going to wear armor in any case. Now, if you lose your armor or shield, then it is your fault because you died, no doubt. Although, I think we could have system that makes it a bit more forgiving, but not without earning it.

 

I think we should implement a "save" feature. Players could earn one "save" for various acomplishments, or a single acomplishment (say a certain exp earned, or instead, certain quests acomplished, or instead every level of combat (overall player lvl) raised.) There would be a max number of saves that a player could carry at a time. Maybe only one "save". What the save does is, when you die, you go to underworld but you don't lose any items, like that precious medalion, or your chain mail. But, if you die again, without a save then you lose your stuff just the same. Also, if you gain a combat lvl and have one save already, then you don't get another.

 

I know this is done in other games, like Astonia III, but that don't mean that we can't implement this feature as well, and improve upon it. Trust me, one save is plenty (Astonia allows 10! That's stupid, and yet people still blow all of them). This is not unbalanced or unfair, because newbies will blow saves just the same, and even experienced players die more than once, and they have earned the right to be allowed the chance to keep the weapons and armor they worked so hard to get, .

 

~Velocet

[Entropy]

Hmm, maybe we can have an expensive save item thing... Which, if you use it (one time use) you don't lose the items at the first death...

[Killerlamb]

Open up mapeditor and make a path +D I did it

[sander]

Well, I have two ideas about improving death in EL:

 

1) disable the compass in the underworld The Original Poster was right about one thing: The underworld serves little purpose this way. After the first time you die as a newbie you know that the exit is north. Next time you die, it's easy to find your way out. Just disable thye compass and spawn the player in facing a ranodm direction.

 

2) When you die, losing items the way it works now is OK. However, I would lower the chance for very rare expensive equiptment (medallions, serpent swords) and remove the chance completely for unique items. Loosing a 1.5 million gp sword is pretty rough. If it happens every other time you die it could be exessive. Also, I don't know if anyone ever tried it, but what happens if you die with quest items like Golric's book or Harvy's crystals?

 

3) When you loose gold or plat when you die, don't automatically loose all of it. Just loose a random percentage [between 1-100]. I know how I lost 25k as a newbie. I couldn't go to the storage (it was in portland only. goblin territory) and I accidentally clicked the deer in IP when I was chasing rabbits. That 25k were my life savings and it sucked bigtime to loose it all in one go. The easiest way to implement this would be to remove the 50% requirement and just add a [0-100]% instead. If you have multiple items in that inventory location (gold, plat, furs, etcetera) you loose that percentage of it. If there's only one item (potion, whatever) you loose it when it's over 50%.

 

Open up mapeditor and make a path +D I did it

 

That brings me to my 4th point: Do some CRC check on the maps to avoid tampering! Or another type of check. Game maps are not to be tampered with. The mapeditor is there to let players contribute new maps to EL, not to cheat in the game.

[Guest]

disable the compass in the underworld

 

Ouch! Although I agree, that'd piss off a LOT of people.

 

I think losing quest items, or other unique items should be disabled. People have had trouble with it, and with the current state of affairs, Entropy has to intervene manually. But If you die in battle with your 1.5 Mgp sword, it's your own fault. You shouldn't have bought it if you can't use it. About the gold, I dunno. It sort of makes sense to store it in one bag, and to loose it all. I know, it's rough, but there's also a banker in desert pines now, and maybe one will open in wsc one day.

 

Open up mapeditor and make a path +D I did it

That brings me to my 4th point: Do some CRC check on the maps to avoid tampering! Or another type of check. Game maps are not to be tampered with. The mapeditor is there to let players contribute new maps to EL, not to cheat in the game.

 

Yeah, cheating sucks. Some quick check when a map is loaded may help prevent it, unless you're dealing with a really desperate hacker.

[Grum]

Damn, I'm still sleeping. Above post was me again.