Tweaking vial breakage & washing dirty vials

[amedee]

Suggestion 1:

I read the topic on the vials http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26181 and as I understand it, currently *all* vials are lost after drinking a potion, except mana & minor healing potion.

 

I would suggest tweaking the breakage factor when drinking potions, and add in the potion level of the potion & the drinker. So that higher potions have a higher risk of breaking, but more experienced potionneurs have less accidents (I think XP level should be scaled down in this calculation though). Also interesting would be to add dexterity: less clumsy people are less likely to break a vial.

 

Essentially, what I am asking is, don't make the breakage rate 100% but tweak it a bit. The above is just a suggestion on how to implement it, but I'll leave it to wiser people to suggest even better breakage calculations.

 

RATIONALE: This could increase the roleplaying factor of the game: clumsy people break a lot of vials. On the other hand, with careful tweaking of the breakage calculation, I think this would still mitigate the effects of a high input of empty vials on the market, only to a lesser extent thant the current implementation (100% vial loss exept mana & minor healing)

 

 

Suggestion 2:

How about this one. When you drink a vial, you either break it or you don't (see suggestion 1).

When you don't break it, you have an empty, used vial.

I would suggest cleaning the dirty vial with one water essence.

And, just like when you wash glasses in the real world, there should be an occasional breakage where you lose the dirty vial & water essence.

 

RATIONALE: This would also make the game mimic real life a little more, while still reducing high numbers of empty (clean) vials. It would also mean that producing water essence becomes more interesting.

[The_Knight]

I like the idea, soon all the vials will be gone cause there is no way to make them, Besides that one npc. I used to have 1000+ vials from drinking alot of potions, now I have lets see... 13. and Ive used 1800+ potions since the last update.

Nice idea

,Knight

[LordGordon]

I like this too because the vial breaking is seriously hurting the potions skill, there needs to be a work around, this would most deffinately work.

[Desertus]

Im potioner, before vial update I had no problems with vials I always had just enough vials for making new pots. I didnt have to sell them or buy them.

Now after update Im always out of vials, its very hard to buy them and most of my buyers dont give me vials in return they pay me for them. But I cant buy them because almost none sells them. How can I make potions with no vials?

It must be tweaked or I believe there wont be enough potions in game some day(mostly srs and brs) and everyone need them. Either less break rate or make vials manufactureable or tweaking cooldown so people start using normal food again.

 

About second suggestion, its good idea but why use WEs? market isnt overflooded by WEs, afaik only crafters need them and they rather dont sell them. IMO to clean vials you should be just in range of water(maybe only few spots with really clean water - point is that I dont know does game really treat water on maps as water or just like not-walkable area).

So you are in range of water then you put 1 vial into manu window and click, click, click... There could be also chance to loose vial while cleaning" oops wet vial slipped out of your hands and you lost it in the water"

 

So with two chances to loose vials(after drinking and while cleaning) I believe they wouldnt flood market again.

[amedee]

About second suggestion, its good idea but why use WEs? market isnt overflooded by WEs, afaik only crafters need them and they rather dont sell them. IMO to clean vials you should be just in range of water(maybe only few spots with really clean water - point is that I dont know does game really treat water on maps as water or just like not-walkable area).

So you are in range of water then you put 1 vial into manu window and click, click, click... There could be also chance to loose vial while cleaning" oops wet vial slipped out of your hands and you lost it in the water"

 

So with two chances to loose vials(after drinking and while cleaning) I believe they wouldnt flood market again.

Your solution is as good as mine. I only made a suggestion to increase the roleplaying factor (and for me, the fun) of the game, but I leave the exact implementation to the experts.

Why use WEs? Simple, because you need "water" to clean vials. This is the way EL works: with "essences". I know WEs aren't in high supply but I don't see this as a big problem.

About your suggestion: indeed most water is treated as non-walkable area except for a few places, like the small pool on Isla Prima, near the beam. If people were obligated to stand in or near water, water areas would really soon become overcrowded, and I don't think this is a good thing. But that's just my idea, I think your contribution is just as good because it means you have thought about it, and that is what matters.

[sithicus]

What is to be concerned of is the 'source' and 'sink' of potion vials. Mira used to be the major source, in fact, FP's were the only real source as the other potions aren't bouhgt much afaik. Breakage was the only sink. The number of other potions bought from Mira is pretty small. It might do to make FP's not require a vial and not give one after use (its lower price at npc would reflect that). Then every potion could still return the vial and the market would not flood with vials.

 

However, the dev said something about making vials manufactarable, and that would actually be very good for both potioners and manuers. Trik has to buy millions of leather items due to training, while vials are now consumable and in demand on the 'real' market. Why should only one man in the universe be able to make vials?

Edited August 18, 2006 by sithicus

[Nidan]

What we need.... is a dishwashing skill!

 

But on a more serious note, i like the idea. Maybe we could use a rag to clean the empty vials. Just have a rag in your inventory while cleaning the vials. Cleaning a vial would give a very small amount of potion experience, kinda like making bone powder gives alch exp.

[trollson]

sithicus is spot on with the supply-and-demand problem of vials.

 

Before cooldown was there a problem with the vial market? If most potions where made rather than bought, vials where recycled, with purchases from Harvy and Mira covering breakages.

 

Now, FPs are bought rather than made, since raw meat is already crucial for Summoners. So with cooldown FPs have been bought in bulk, and a vial mountain develops.

I must say at this point; during this time our trading bot was still making a very good profit buying and selling vials, which surprised me somewhat.

So, the vial mountain has a very specific cause; but the solution has very broad effects, creating new problems.

What would have been a better solution?

Have Mira charge, say, 15gc plus one vial for a FP.

FPs would then have zero net effect on the vial supply, and leave the rest of the potion-business unaffected. We know this type of pricing is already possible since Harvy uses a similar approach to selling vials.

Maybe making vials craftable will be a solution, and it is always welcome when items become creatable. But I've had to deal with systems built with layers of fixes for fixes far too often, and it always ends up being a mess.

 

One a brighter note...

 

Washing vials could be a nice touch (new object; dirty vial), but I'm not sure it would add much to the experience of the game. If water* was a selectable object (something you can click on), then you could wash a vial by 'use with' the water; see characters sitting around the river banks doing their laundry.

I am all for more interactions with map objects in the world (see my

digression

on the

Citizens

thread).

 

* just to clarify: By water I am refering to water features on the map, not WE items.

This may be represented by items such as fountains?

And finally cookery...

...sigh, another digression...

This started because of cooldown and the demand for FPs. There are now enough variables to make cookery a legitimate skill. Cooked items would vary by:

• food value
  
• cooldown value
  
• weight
  
• stackability
  
• storability
  
• extras -- minor mana and healing effects, etc.
  

It is probably most closely related to Potion, so could use the same skill without any nexus requirements. We already have the zero-difficulty task (use raw meat with fire, cf. grinding bones, and then theres mill wheat to give flour).

 

And of course, after cooking, somebody had better have a good washing-up skill....

Edited August 25, 2006 by trollson

[Cycloonx]

Washing vials could be a nice touch (new object; dirty vial), but I'm not sure it would add much to the experience of the game. If water was a selectable object (something you can click on), then you could wash a vial by 'use with' the water; see characters sitting around the river banks doing their laundry.

 

I like this idea a lot Although I liked the idea about the dirty vial too but 1 we = 5gc, so vials would still cost a lot...

[duran]

why do i have this vision of a stinking pile of washing up to do?

Edited August 25, 2006 by duran

[amedee]

One a brighter note...

 

Washing vials could be a nice touch (new object; dirty vial), but I'm not sure it would add much to the experience of the game. If water* was a selectable object (something you can click on), then you could wash a vial by 'use with' the water; see characters sitting around the river banks doing their laundry.

I am all for more interactions with map objects in the world (see my

digression

on the

Citizens

thread).

 

* just to clarify: By water I am refering to water features on the map, not WE items.

This may be represented by items such as fountains?

 

 

That's also a nice idea, even better than my idea of using water essence! Use vials on water to wash the vial ("You washed the vial!") just like you have to use meat on a burning fire to cook it ("You cooked the meat!")

 

I would think only "clean" water would be permissable. How about saying fountains are sources of clean water, and rivers and other water features are not? There are only a few fountains in EL, just like there are only a few camp fires.

 

And finally cookery...

...sigh, another digression...

This started because of cooldown and the demand for FPs. There are now enough variables to make cookery a legitimate skill. Cooked items would vary by:

• food value
  
• cooldown value
  
• weight
  
• stackability
  
• storability
  
• extras -- minor mana and healing effects, etc.
  

It is probably most closely related to Potion, so could use the same skill without any nexus requirements. We already have the zero-difficulty task (use raw meat with fire, cf. grinding bones, and then theres mill wheat to give flour).

 

And of course, after cooking, somebody had better have a good washing-up skill....

I would very much like to see cooking in EL.

Mill wheat; use on fire = bread.

Mill wheat; add vegetables; use on fire = pizza!