Nexuses with more use

[Kedan]

Basicly i think nexuses should be the main thing people spend their pp's on, but to do this we need to get rid of basic attributes and make the nexuses affect the cross attributes to. This should make people only spend their pp's on nexuses, and then maybe a few on perks. This could then lead to making items needing more nexuses to do things (as 5/6 pp's is nothing when people have over 100 oa, its just that they need attributes to)

 

So my idea is that if we had a nexuse for every skill ( so attack, deffence, manu ect) they could affect the cross attributes in different amounts depending on how much that skill should affect that attribute.

 

example

 

Attack

Might - 0.3
Dexterity - 0.5
reaction - 0.2
Toughness - 0.1
Matter - 0.4
Rationality - 0.1
Ethereality - 0

Deffence

Might - 0.2
Dexterity - 0.1
reaction - 0.4
Toughness - 0.5
Matter - 0.3
Rationality - 0.1
Ethereality - 0

Harvest

Might - 0.5
Dexterity - 0.1
reaction - 0.1
Toughness - 0.2
Matter - 0.4
Rationality - 0.3
Ethereality - 0

Alchemy

Might - 0.5
Dexterity - 0.1
reaction - 0
Toughness - 0.2
Matter - 0.3
Rationality - 0.4
Ethereality - 0.1

Magic

Might - 0.4
Dexterity - 0
reaction - 0.3
Toughness - 0.2
Matter - 0.1
Rationality - 0.1
Ethereality - 0.5

Potion

Might - 0.5
Dexterity - 0.1
reaction - 0.1
Toughness - 0
Matter - 0.2
Rationality - 0.3
Ethereality - 0.4

Summoning

Might - 0.4
Dexterity - 0
reaction - 0.1
Toughness - 0.2
Matter - 0.1
Rationality - 0.3
Ethereality - 0.5

Manufactoring

Might - 0.5
Dexterity - 0.1
reaction - 0.1
Toughness - 0.2
Matter - 0.3
Rationality - 0.4
Ethereality - 0

Crafting

Might - 0.3
Dexterity - 0.1
reaction - 0
Toughness - 0.1
Matter - 0.2
Rationality - 0.5
Ethereality - 0.4

 

This would then get everything near another back to where it is now, just with a different way of doing it (it actually makes it slightly easyer/better for players as each pp with affect cross attributes by 0.6 more than before, this should mean less bitching) and now for the main reason im suggesting this.

 

At the moment nexuses are there to stop people from doing alot of things in game, but it doesn't work to well for the reason i explam above, so with this new system you should be able to see how easy it is to give items of a cetain skill a high nexuses level to stop people doing to many skills. So for attack (which the nexuses would decide what weapons you can use) i would suggest to use the higher weapons (above tit serp) you need 50+ attack nexuses, and then the same for defence. Which as the highest fighters have like 120 oa (or could have if they didn't reset) will have 20 pp's left to spend to get the basic's of other skills.

 

I wont go into all the nexuses requiments as it would be a waste if this idea isn't liked, but i think you can see the picture of how it would work. Also the names of the nexuses dont have to be the same as the skills, i was just using that so it would be easyer to understand, but i do think there needs to be a different nexuses for every skill

 

 

Please post you thought or comments. Oh and dont think just about the negative side of you not being able to do everything in game, because this will also make people need to buy stuff from other skills, meaning you will be able to sell the items you make to other people easyer

[vytukas]

Maybe this is a good idea, maybe not, but IMHO it is too far from the current rules

[ville-v]

Instead having nexus for every skill that increases cross attributes, why not having every skill to increase cross attributes instead?

[GarfieldClowntje]

I like the total idea except for the +50 nexus needed to wield a high weapon.

 

Allrounders (and there are a lot of those) will not be able to fight with those weapons anymore

 

Maybe this would help out for that:

 

- keep the nexii needed to wield a weapon relatively low (example +/- 10 in attack for tit serp and/or above)

- but you will wield it better if you increase your nexii in attack

 

 

So with nexii 10 in attack you can wield a serp

With nexii 10+ you wield it better (but let the increase degrade slowly)

So with 20 nexii in attack you wield it for example 1.5 times as normal

And at level 40-50 nexii in attack you wield it for example 2.0 times as normal

 

There is still a large beneift for the true fighters if done so, but it also keeps the door open for allrounders (like me)

[trollson]

This is too large a change, though I also think that nexus are under-utilised but important aspects of the game.

 

Specific critique:

• Exclusive association of nexus and skill is to rigid, linearising character development even more. Mix and match skill and nexus based on tasks instead? A high skill difficulty need not mean a high nexus requirement.
  
• Too much focus on skills as game-goals, rather than what you can do, they need not be the same, think in terms of tasks rather than skills.
  
• Buying nexus not a choice but a necessary if you want to make use of skills. It needs to remain a choice throughout, otherwise it just becomes a tax. There can be high skill difficulty tasks which do not require any nexus, and low difficulty ones which require a high nexus.
  

[Kedan]

Basicly my idea is to stop people being able to do the best in every skill. They should either be the best in 2/3 skills, or average at all, or a mixuter which they pick. This basicly means we dont have classes, but we have a way to stop people doing everything themself (which is abit stupid in a mmorpg as your ment to interact with people, and its not good for the market)

 

ville-v: If we just used the skills it would mean people could still train in any skill they want to and make the best stuff in every skill abit to easy. With nexuses it means they have to use their oa skill, which if you only level one skill it stays the same, but the more skills you try to learn the harder it is (which is just like real life, you cant do everything as you dont have enough time, and enough room in your brain to remember everything. so you can think of oa as you brain )

 

GarfieldClowntje: That could work i guess, its not to much of a change, the only reason i said what i did is because another problem we have is newbies running around in plate and serps, so if we go with what you said it would have to be something like you need 10 to use it, but if less than 40 you have a high chance of breaking the item (gets lower as you get closer to 40) aswell as how well you use it

 

trollson: You make good points, and have found all the negative sides of uses this. I'll look at them all one by one see if i can try to solve them

 

Big change - Well this cant really be changed, it is a massive change to the way the game works, and it will proberly be the reason its not used.

 

Exclusive association of nexus and skill - I didn't really get what you meant by tasks. I didnt see how it could be slit up, unless it ways split into groups like: using weapons, using armor, making armor/weapons, making rings ect. which is just splitting it into skills but calling it something different. I guess to make people be able to customermise there stats abit more (if they just fouce on one skill that is, because they do have 9 skills to choose from when putting there pp's in the nexuses) is having the basic attriubties there aswell as everything else i said, but this wont make to much difference. I would like to here a suggestion of how it could be split up into tasks.

 

Too much focus on skills as game-goals - I just done this becuase we need some way to restricked people from being able to do everything, and there is only two ways i can thing of doing this, one is time (which is bad because everyone has different time amounts they can spend playing the game) and restrictions made by the game (which is bad because players feel limited to what they can do) and in this idea i used the game restrictions.

 

Buying nexus not a choice but a necessary - The only other way i can think of limiting what people can do is time which i'v explaned above, and i choose not to force on that in this suggestion

[trollson]

My goals are to encourage diversity of characters and retain as much choice in ongoing character developement as possible, constrained by what we have already (a clean-sheet MMORPG design would go down quite different routes...).

 

I didn't really get what you meant by tasks?

 

Think of a skill as a general category of activity. A task is a specific activity you can do in the game; make a leather helmet, cast remote heal, attack with a steel longsword, fight in iron plate armour.

 

Most people interpret the game from the viewpoint of skills; presented as lists of tasks, requiring the same nexus, and the more difficulty tasks requiring the greater nexus level.

 

But step back, and think of the game in terms of tasks; these are the things that your character actually does after all. A task can be described by the following:

• a skill difficulty (difficulty may be take from the situation; eg, "opponents defence")
  
• a nexus requirement
  
• a knowledge
  

When a task is designed, the only consideration for these parameters should be the nature of the task. The choice of skill should not imply the choice of nexus, nor should the choice of difficulty infer a require nexus level. All should be independant parameters

If fundamental parameters are not independant, then why have them seperate in the first place?

All characters can develop all skills; even with occasional use skill levels creep up over time, and so are a weak discriminator. The diversity is in their nexus, which represent a hard choice in character development (something the player must think about and choose between).

Given the current set of skills and nexus, how would you design a "

pickpocket

" task?

Too much focus on skills as game-goals

 

The set of tasks available to a character are defined by their nexus, and not their skills (difficulties can be overcome, requirements cannot).

 

So, do not make skills dependant on nexus. Whatever a player's choices, all skills should remain useful to them at all levels. For a set of tasks pertaining to a particular skill, there should be a variety of nexus represented.

 

Buying nexus not a choice but a necessary

 

Pick points are the most valuable commodity a player has, and how to spend them is (and should be) a hard choice in character developement.

 

If, beyond a certain skill difficulty, all tasks require increasing nexus levels, then the player is obliged to spend on nexus to allow their character to develop new talents. It is no longer a choice; spending on nexus becomes a high level tax. No one likes paying tax, and resentment to the system develops (I think this is currently the case!)

 

This goes back to my earlier point, that skill difficulty and required nexus level should not have a correlation forced upon them. Some tasks can be difficult but require no nexus, others can be easy but require a high nexus, and so on. Whatever your nexus set, new things become available (practical) to you as skills increase.

[duran]

realy, realy nice one there trollson

 

so while alchemy for making essences may require magic nexus, bar making may require another and so on?

 

and harvesting plants may require vegetal nexus while ore may require a diffrent one?

Edited July 14, 2006 by duran

[trollson]

Duran: Yes, thats the sort of thing.

 

Some exotic plants may even require magic nexus to harvest, since you need to preserve their magical properties.

 

Imagine a grid of skills against nexus; tasks should be scattered all over the grid, and not just along a line. Similarly for difficulty against required level.

 

We gain orders of magnitude more variety by ensuring that fundamental properties stay independant.

 

duran

(below): It is not my intention for the grid mentioned here to be the method of design, but that a well-covered grid is a desirable outcome. Instead, the focus should be on designing the individual tasks in an unbiased fashion.

 

The selection of skill difficulty and nexus requirement should be based on the task itself, and not biased by previous selection patterns; don't assume that because a task uses skill X it must use nexus Y, or that since its pitched as difficulty N it implies nexus requirement M, just because thats how others have done it before.

(added here to avoid reviving an old thread)

Edited August 3, 2006 by trollson

[duran]

hmm, true. maybe sit down, create said grid and then pitch it at entropy

[maximos]

what's wrong with it now?

nexusses are there to make you able to do something

attributes are there to make stuff easier for you

 

and the way attributes/cross attributes are worked out is VERY good, so please don't change it

[duran]

thing is that its to linear.

 

as it is today you can stuff your starting points into one of the nexuses and be able to use the best weapons and armors right of the bat.

 

hmm, i see much potential in this idea. like say splitting up diffrent weapons having diffrent nexus requirements, and some maybe even having the need for two high ones (like say those magical weapons).

 

i realy need to sit down with all the tasks and gear, and sort them into diffrent "trees".

 

would lead to a big shakeup in the game tho, i can allready hear all the bitching

[maximos]

thing is that its to linear.

 

as it is today you can stuff your starting points into one of the nexuses and be able to use the best weapons and armors right of the bat.

way not linear, just many people use all their pp's in p/c/w because other people tell them to, few people actually THINK about it. If we all would think about it independate;y, we would have way more different combinations of our spended pp's.

 

and if a newbie wears a serp what's that mean? he wont get any Exp this way

[duran]

maybe not, but a serp should be a achivement, a symbol of the dedication a person have put into the character.

 

that you get more xp by doing less damage to a enemy is a diffrent story, and one that have been attempted to fix by giving modifiers to the xp based on damage done and so on...

[maximos]

maybe not, but a serp should be a achivement, a symbol of the dedication a person have put into the character.

Yes, this is very true.

Anyway Kedan: i like the idea, i'm getting tired of constantly having only 1 pp in my nexus

[duran]

hmm, take a look at the recent manu formula release that entropy did.

 

those magical swords require both magic and artifical...

 

sounds a bit similar to what trollson posted to me (alltho in a bit of a backwards way )

[ville-v]

Magic swords could require also magic (and human) nexus to use