Mr.Mind Report post Posted December 25, 2005 Mass production is necessary to level in every skill. The only reason manu is noticed so much is because items do not break often. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted December 25, 2005 Mass production is necessary to level in every skill. The only reason manu is noticed so much is because items do not break often. Jep, in a way you are right, but too high break numbers would also kill the manu market, the thing is: Essences are also produced by masses, but people use a lot of essences, but manu items are used less, and that's why the market is flooded of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest stalag Report post Posted December 26, 2005 But manu has another problem which affects also pot with sr ... GUILD For example i dont buy armour if i need a cuisses i just ask F7 manu and he does it for the efe only or in channel 500 (pt-br) ppl do me sr for the ings only so this also affects a lot the market... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heu Report post Posted December 26, 2005 Why the mass production of pants would affect the price of an iron plate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted December 26, 2005 Why the mass production of pants would affect the price of an iron plate? Not only pants are made with 1000ths, but shields are made with hundreds, and everyone knows a player don't use 100 shields a day, same thing for steel chains and iron helmets ... Even the price for iron plate is low because there are too much iron plates ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heu Report post Posted December 26, 2005 Why the mass production of pants would affect the price of an iron plate? Not only pants are made with 1000ths, but shields are made with hundreds, and everyone knows a player don't use 100 shields a day, same thing for steel chains and iron helmets ... Even the price for iron plate is low because there are too much iron plates ... Making 100 shields a day would spend LOTS of bars, who can harvest the ore, make all those bars and 100 shields in a day? That's very hard... so that would increase the selling of bars in the market. Anyway, I don't think a person that makes 100 shields is interested in the xp... that would be kind of... stupid. The problem of too many plates does happen because of many efe's all around... Too many EFEs = Too many high level items = Lower prices Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted December 26, 2005 I once had 400 steel shields, 400 steel chains, 400 iron helms, ect... and I can promise you that I didn't make them just for the xp. It doesn't take long to get bars with the help of slaves (I mean a guild). It's true that mass production is required for leveling up, but the most efficient item to mass produce is leather pants, which can be sold to trik. There are not as many manu items made as essences, but the proportion to how quickly they are used is lower, so there is a constant overflow on the market. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heu Report post Posted December 26, 2005 I once had 400 steel shields, 400 steel chains, 400 iron helms, ect... and I can promise you that I didn't make them just for the xp. It doesn't take long to get bars with the help of slaves (I mean a guild). It's true that mass production is required for leveling up, but the most efficient item to mass produce is leather pants, which can be sold to trik. There are not as many manu items made as essences, but the proportion to how quickly they are used is lower, so there is a constant overflow on the market. "and I can promise you that I didn't make them just for the xp" I'm sure you didn't, so you can't blame the xp system... And you won't sell all leather pants in market, that's the point. I don't think mass production is the real problem... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted December 26, 2005 I don't think mass production is the real problem... Then it didn't take long for you to see my point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sora_barzahd Report post Posted December 26, 2005 I once had 400 steel shields, 400 steel chains, 400 iron helms, ect... and I can promise you that I didn't make them just for the xp. It doesn't take long to get bars with the help of slaves (I mean a guild). I was one of those slaves for a while sadly >.>.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arnieman Report post Posted December 26, 2005 This is what I see as the real problems. I say problems, because there are 2 distinct problems that can be realized in this system. 1. Overproduction of items. Or, simply, large supplies with virtually no demand. People make vast amounts of some items for the experience they can earn for an item - which isn't really a problem for high-demand items like essences, but for low-demand items, like leather armors, there's not a real outlet for the product (unless you are willing to take a loss with Trik). 2. Market tactics. With the first problem, this means that supply is greater than demand for many items, which actually favors buyers (supply > demand favors buyers; demand > supply favors sellers; supply = demand is balanced). So, some people, looking for a quick sale, cut their prices under the rest of the market - so, to remain competitive, the rest of the market either goes lower, or remains the same. This affects low-demand items and the top end items (which aren't really stocked too much), and has little affect on the high-demand items (because as soon as the undercutter's supply is bought out, the rest still can charge what they like and still have a chance of getting that price). The best solution I can see for manufacture would be the already proposed solution - going through a process of making items where you make each part, then use the parts and make the finished product. If I can make an item in the time it takes me to make 10 of that item now, and still get a reasonable amount of experience for the time spent, I'd be happy. Making 100 shields a day would spend LOTS of bars, who can harvest the ore, make all those bars and 100 shields in a day? That's very hard... so that would increase the selling of bars in the market.Anyway, I don't think a person that makes 100 shields is interested in the xp... that would be kind of... stupid. At one time, I did make 100 steel shields from "scratch" for the experience - with mostly my own work and a bit of help from my guildmates (including a couple now-former members) who gave me some iron and coal. I had an alchemy level in the 40's then, a harvest level in the 50s, and manufacture just barely good enough for steel shields. I made enough bars for 100 shields, and succeeded on 80. I gained a couple harvest levels, several alchemy levels, and a grand total of 1 manufacture level - barely worth the effort. Once I had all the ingredients in storage, making the bars and shields was about a 1-2 day job - but I'd still agree trying to level manufacture on shields is an insane idea, and not really effective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kedan Report post Posted December 26, 2005 The thing is people make leather helms/pants because there the fastest way to gain exp compared to getting all the igredents to make armors and weapons, and the fact that the armors and weapons you make will take you atleast a day to try to sell on the market because people can make them alot faster than people use them and break them. The answer is deffently not to make them break faster as this would then leave people to not bother buying them as it is hardly worth buying something to break after one fight. We have to cut the amount of them being made, and the best way to do this would be to make them take longer to make, like an hour per shield. But if we just had it click then wait an hour people would surly go afk and marco which just ruins the game, so it has to be split into smaller parts thats give you the exp for manu (manu is the main problem here because if the prices of manu products went up people would be whiling to pay more for bars because they would be able to make a profit after selling what they made, like with items that use EFE's) So if it takes an hour to make a shield but still givves you the exp you would get from making leather pants for an hour people would much rather make the shield as this can then be sold on the market for a profit, and because there are like 100-200 manuer on the game that can only mean 200 shields can be made an hour, but ofcourse most of them wont be making them due to them not being on or doing something else, so you would most likely get 50 shields an hour, and with all the fighters (there are atleast 5 fighters to every manuer) they break about 1 sheild every 2 hours, and this is only with one item, if we do this with everything, but the higher the item the longer it takes to make (with more smaller parts, but still gives you the same amount of exp as it does making leather pants for that amount of time), it would mean less shield making and breaking and replace them with other items being made and breaking, leading to a good market hopfully Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
