request for traps an curses

[Arnieman]

Asmodis, I fully agree there is a problem like you mention - new players may not realize that gargoyles roam in WS at night - let alone know what WS is. Or, they may not know where to get X item, or sell X item... But also, I can tell you from experience that if you walk up on someone who just died, and hold their bag for them, and then return it to them, it really makes an impression more on the newer players than the older ones - they realize how great this community can be, and want to be part of it, whatever it takes.

 

Personally, I'm beginning work on my own newbie guide, not quite sure any of the others I've seen are up-to-date or in-depth enough to explain everything for a new player. Not that unless some of those tips are listed in game, it's gonna be worth that much, but at least its my project to play with.

 

As for trapping/cursing/such, I'd like to see there be some hazard for being a thief class in the game code - after all, as it is now, you can steal right in front of a huge crowd of people, and never suffer anything for it. If you were to try this in real life - you wouldn't make it far, or at the very least, showing yourself anywhere where people go wouldn't be a viable option.

[bkc56]

As for trapping/cursing/such, I'd like to see there be some hazard for being a thief class in the game code - after all, as it is now, you can steal right in front of a huge crowd of people, and never suffer anything for it.

198587[/snapback]

How about bagjumpers (those who take, not just look) become PKable for 5 minutes?

 

Probably still wouldn't help (they could grab and beam/teleport), but it would throw a new twist on being a thief in crowded areas.

[petersohn]

How about bagjumpers (those who take, not just look) become PKable for 5 minutes?

 

Ok, but how does the game decide if someone bagjumped? Maybe if there is a "polivceman" (mod) nearby, s/he can make the thief PKable.

[bkc56]

Ok, but how does the game decide if someone bagjumped?

198623[/snapback]

This is just sort of off the top-of-my-head, so don't hold me to it (that is, don't punch bunches of holes in it, it's just an idea):

 

* Let's say all dropped bags (due to PK or whatever) get player tags (so you know who the bag belongs to).

* Let's say those tags will time-out after some period of time (the bag is no longer "owned").

* Assume the game knows when a player takes something out of a bag.

 

If a player removes something from a tagged bag (not his), he bagjumped.

If a player removes something from a un-tagged bag (no longer owned by anyone), he simply picked up some abandoned items.

 

Now that we have a better trading system, the use of bags to trade isn't so important so that kind of bagjumping shouldn't be a big problem. So, perhaps the game only tags bags dropped by players when they die. That would make dropping a bag of food for someone a non-bagjumping event (the bag would not be tagged).

 

Of course this wouldn't let you pick up someone's death-bag to return it to them, all you could do is guard it until they return or the bag times-out. Perhaps it's OK to pick up a tagged bag if the owner is from your guild (helps a little).

 

Like I said, just thinking "out loud" here...

[Arnieman]

I was thinking something more along the lines of Ultima Online's "blue-grey-red" scale.

 

Tag the bag as to who dropped it - then, if it's picked up, let the picker get a +1 "criminal" count for bagjumping. Then, if he gave the bag back, or whatever, the person who's "tag" was on the bag would be able to negate that +1 - they'd have a command that'd do that. They would have a set time to enter the command. Other than that, make a record of when the point was added, and remove it after 30 in-game days (EL Calendar).

 

If someone had too many points on their "criminal" count, the game could automatically make them PKable until the number reduced (would have to be enough delay that you wouldn't have them go automatically PKable if they take a deathbag, and then want to return it to someone).

 

This could also open up "stealing" from NPCs or bots as a skill, both with risk and reward.

 

This could also end up as way too complicated a scale to program, for a project like ours.

 

EDIT: didn't even read yours till after I posted, bkc56... you posted while I was writing. good Idea, tho.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Arnieman

[bkc56]

I was thinking something more along the lines of Ultima Online's "blue-grey-red" scale.

198638[/snapback]

I like it. It's a lot more complex that what I was suggesting, but has some interesting points.

 

The one problem I see is that it doesn't allow one to make being a thief a profession. If you steel to much then you're PKable until some points time-out. With the method I was talking about, you're only PKable for a while, and it only matters if someone sees you within the first few mintues. After that, you've gotten away with it. If you're good (or fast) you can steel all you want (you're not limited by a number of points waiting for them to time-out). If you're not so good (or fast) you may get caught the first time and killed (time for a new profession).

[Asmodis]

Asmodis, I fully agree there is a problem like you mention - new players may not realize that gargoyles roam in WS at night - let alone know what WS is.  Or, they may not know where to get X item, or sell X item... But also, I can tell you from experience that if you walk up on someone who just died, and hold their bag for them, and then return it to them, it really makes an impression more on the newer players than the older ones - they realize how great this community can be, and want to be part of it, whatever it takes.

Well, with my first posting I suggested a way to handle bag jumpers and deathbag takers. As you have read I got only approval from Gryflet...

 

Personally, I'm beginning work on my own newbie guide, not quite sure any of the others I've seen are up-to-date or in-depth enough to explain everything for a new player.  Not that unless some of those tips are listed in game, it's gonna be worth that much, but at least its my project to play with.

If you need any help like translating it to german or hungarian as well as other help please contact me!

 

Additionally the tutorial may be extended ... like making an FE to explain alchemy and so on.

For this the newbie would get 10 sulfur from the tutorial NPC. Then the player must find roses and snapdragons on IP and harvest coal in the IP-cave...

At the moment there is no coal in the cave and no red roses on IP ... I know!

 

As for trapping/cursing/such, I'd like to see there be some hazard for being a thief class in the game code - after all, as it is now, you can steal right in front of a huge crowd of people, and never suffer anything for it.  If you were to try this in real life - you wouldn't make it far, or at the very least, showing yourself anywhere where people go wouldn't be a viable option.

Thats right, but there could be NPC guards with each storage and in towns. Morrowind solves that "problem" by having guards in settlements. They could attack players doing theft...

 

And before somebody complains: I know this is much work for the game makers. So its an idea which may be implemented...

Edited September 19, 2005 by Asmodis

[Aislinn]

Take a peek in the new help window...there are newbie FAQ's, skill FAQ's, and a newbie skill guide which starts them out with each skill step by step. I think a LOT of your concerns are already covered there.

[Arnieman]

Take a peek in the new help window...there are newbie FAQ's, skill FAQ's, and a newbie skill guide which starts them out with each skill step by step.  I think a LOT of your concerns are already covered there.

198709[/snapback]

I've only taken a cursory glance - it's a nice work (to whoever did it), but could go a bit further (IMO). Besides, not saying making my own guide will do anything more than allow me to write some of what I've learned as more a quick reference - but how many people come into the game are reading it? I spend nearly every minute I'm in EL scanning the newbie channel - well, now every minute with multichannels, but not always talking - there are at least 10 questions a day that would be answered by actually looking in the Help Window or Encyclopedia or on the Tutorial NPC or in the bright yellow hints... half the battle is having ammunition (which we do, it's that list I just said), now we need people to use it. Mostly, we need to teach people to use what we give them. As such, I really would like to have my own contribution to give to newer players.

 

That, and I've seen for awhile that - for some strange reason - links are mainly better received by new players asking in the Newbie Channel than "go look in the Encyclopedia."

 

Or maybe I should assume there's already too many resources, and just give up before I start?

 

If you need any help like translating it to german or hungarian as well as other help please contact me!

 

Additionally the tutorial may be extended ... like making an FE to explain alchemy and so on.

198684[/snapback]

I could probably use some help translating either German or Hungarian (I know a little German, but I'd need someone to translate Hungarian, I don't know any) if I do try, but then again, I don't have my own server - free web hosting all the way here (except when the pop-ups get annoying).

 

As for "extending it" on how to do the skills, actually, part of my idea was to do exactly that, and give a few hints on what to make when - of course, not going too full, people do need to learn to figure some of the stuff for themselves.

 

More or less, I don't want to give them everything, but I don't want to give them too dry of what to do either - essentially, I want to lay out the good and the bad, and give them a "kickstart" down the path - whatever path that may be for them.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Arnieman

[Asmodis]

Take a peek in the new help window...there are newbie FAQ's, skill FAQ's, and a newbie skill guide which starts them out with each skill step by step.  I think a LOT of your concerns are already covered there.

Sorry! Haven't read that until some minutes ago.

Nontheless an additional tutorial task to make an essence would be fine

[Aislinn]

The goal of the Help window and FAQ's is to have a handy ready IN-GAME reference that is easy to get to without losing contact with ingame people. It's new so of course people aren't familiar with using it yet, or aware of how much information is in it. The idea wasn't to go so indepth that people's eyes glaze over when they look at it, but to have instant access to the most important things a newbie needs to know. If you think something is lacking, let me know what you think should be added, but like I said, I didn't want to junk it up and lose the important things in a lot of minor stuff.

 

As to making a site: There are plenty of help sites out there, including a newbie tutorial. We don't however want to give so much information away that we play the game for everybody. That is the danger of putting so much information into one easy to find place.

 

@Asmodis: Did you look at the Skills tab? There IS a tutorial on how to make an essence in the alchemy section.

[Arnieman]

As to making a site: There are plenty of help sites out there, including a newbie tutorial.  We don't however want to give so much information away that we play the game for everybody.  That is the danger of putting so much information into one easy to find place. 

198749[/snapback]

IOW, enough is enough.

 

I'm hereby scrapping my idea for now. Unless there is any real desire or demand for another guide - well, I'll leave the guides to *O*, CEL, and Alastria, and whoever has a guide out there.

 

EDIT: Just looked at EL's main website - on the left side, under "Help", is a link to Ravenod's Newbie Guide - half of the information there is out of date. If there's anything similar but more current on EL.net, someone may want to change the link.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Arnieman

[Aislinn]

Bleh I didn't mean to make you give up, I meant to caution about the dangers of too many details all offered in one easy package.

 

I look back to my newbie days and I had Alastria's Manuals (in those days that's all there was) and my guild for help. We didn't have fancy maps with all the trimmings at the touch of our tab key, we didn't have cave maps at all. No autowalk, no #goto, nothing like that. Yes the help guide had coordinates listed but we actually had to figure out how to USE coordinates if we wanted to use that information.

 

Now we have all that and really, what is left for them to find on their own? One thing I really liked about Ravenod's guide, is it was a PRACTICAL guide...not loaded with lists of locations and lists of stats, but an hour by hour guide of what to do to start out as a total newbie. I would say, if ANYTHING is needed, it's more info like that, maybe following some different path choices.

[Arnieman]

Bleh I didn't mean to make you give up, I meant to caution about the dangers of too many details all offered in one easy package. 

198757[/snapback]

Ok, well, rehashing the idea - I misread your caution messages.

 

I'm mainly thinking back to my early days too - I didn't have much to start with, though not from inavailability - I just didn't know where to get it, and didn't want to ask... Then again, everyone's got their newbie stories.