What Missle's Better.

[Dimov]

I go for the firearms. Gunpowder WAS invented in the medievals, the turks took constantine with cannons, the Chinese were firing rockets @ each other , etc. I even have a formula in mind to (the real Chemical one) get gunpowder -

AgNO3 ( silver nitrate , commonly known as hellstone) + HCl (every1 knows that one) -----> AgCl + KNO3 (gunpowder).

[Learner]

I go for the firearms. Gunpowder WAS invented in the medievals, the turks took constantine with cannons, the Chinese were firing rockets @ each other , etc. I even have a formula in mind to (the real Chemical one) get gunpowder -

AgNO3 ( silver nitrate , commonly known as hellstone) + HCl (every1 knows that one) -----> AgCl + KNO3 (gunpowder).

165195[/snapback]

It has already been stated that firearms will NOT be in EL.

[MoJo]

Even IF they were going to be in EL sometime or another. I would have to vote for Bow's, I mean it is Fantasy Medievil Genre, isn't it?

[chintan]

I go for the firearms. Gunpowder WAS invented in the medievals, the turks took constantine with cannons, the Chinese were firing rockets @ each other , etc. I even have a formula in mind to (the real Chemical one) get gunpowder -

AgNO3 ( silver nitrate , commonly known as hellstone) + HCl (every1 knows that one) -----> AgCl + KNO3 (gunpowder).

165195[/snapback]

 

Where does the potassium come from?

 

I think you meant:

 

AgNO3 + KCl (a type of salt) -----> AgCl + KNO3

Edited May 27, 2005 by chintan

[giannis]

I go for the firearms. Gunpowder WAS invented in the medievals, the turks took constantine with cannons, the Chinese were firing rockets @ each other , etc. I even have a formula in mind to (the real Chemical one) get gunpowder -

AgNO3 ( silver nitrate , commonly known as hellstone) + HCl (every1 knows that one) -----> AgCl + KNO3 (gunpowder).

165195[/snapback]

 

First of the Turks took Constantinople (a city) not Constantine (a name).

 

Second of all, roja has already made the models for bows etc. and if i remember corectly from a previous post she insisted on using thoses cause there is no way in hell she is going to draw new models for guns and throw her efforts to make bows etc. in the garbage.

 

And Third of all GUNPOWDER is formed from the chemical mixture of saltpeter (potassium nitrate) at 75%, sulphur 10 % and charcoal 15%. When it is ignited it burns rapidly and makes an explosion.

 

I am not completly sure what this formula is:

AgNO3 + KCl (a type of salt) -----> AgCl + KNO3

but i think it is the reaction that causes percussion caps to ignate. (the part of a bullet with an explosive compound that ignites with a sharp blow)

Edited May 27, 2005 by giannis

[duran]

heh, if you want big bang maybe ask for fire-burst arrows

made by alchemists

 

or just go magic after someone get the particle engine to do magical effects 8)

[Daxon]

I have always wanted guns added for EL.. with severely penalized accuracy, as in medieval times, even guns made then were highly inaccurate. I mean, old muskets only had an effect range of 50 yards or so at one point. A shotgun in today's work on full choke can easily pass that range (and a shotgun is NOT a range weapon).

 

EDIT

 

And Third of all GUNPOWDER is formed from the chemical mixture of saltpeter (potassium nitrate) at 75%, sulphur 10 % and charcoal 15%. When it is ignited it burns rapidly and makes an explosion.

 

Not only that, it also gave the soldiers blackened lips and a very large need of water (it made them thirsty).

Edited May 28, 2005 by Daxon

[giannis]

EDIT

Not only that, it also gave the soldiers blackened lips and a very large need of water (it made them thirsty). 

165287[/snapback]

 

 

Dude you realy know your weapons.... are you a big history channel buff ... or a Marine?

have always wanted guns added for EL.. with severely penalized accuracy, as in medieval times, even guns made then were highly inaccurate. I mean, old muskets only had an effect range of 50 yards or so at one point. A shotgun in today's work on full choke can easily pass that range (and a shotgun is NOT a range weapon).

165287[/snapback]

 

Maybe using fire arms will be to much of a drastic change in el. But maybe we can have some bombs or "molotov"-like cocktails made by alchemists. The expolisive arrows idea is pretty cool 2.

Edited May 28, 2005 by giannis

[ttlanhil]

But maybe we can have some bombs or "molotov"-like cocktails made by alchemists.

165315[/snapback]

shove an FE into a wine bottle. hours... well... seconds of fun for the whole family!

 

besides, that dude in NC already sells fireworks, and there's rockets in warfare, etc

[Daxon]

Dude you realy know your weapons.... are you a big history channel buff ... or a Marine?

165315[/snapback]

 

No, just a gun collector.

[Dimov]

Sorry for my typos , i was in a hurry. Kalium Nitrate (and some other nitrates) was used in gunpowder , in the Renaisance I think ( I have no idea of Italian , so i hope i spelled this on right).

 

Or even better , to have savage stick flinging weaps AND firearms.

[Entris]

Don't think firearms belongs in EL!

[gilthanas]

if you do make some inaccurate guns, add them to the ant bots and make them pkable

[Daxon]

Is it really worth it to use a weapon with -10 accuracy? -15? Also, make it where they can't use a shield. The last thing someone could do was use an old musket one handed.

[Dent]

The biggest reason that firearms became so popular was training time.

 

To be a successful bowman, you needed to dedicate a very significant part of your life to working on the skills. You also needed to learn about bow and arrow construction and maintenance. It was a career path. They were considered valuable troops, and cost a huge amount to train and maintain. I think that this is more in keeping with the EL themes.

[duran]

the biggest single training point about bows is upper body strength. i recall hearing that skeletons of bowmen that have been found have shown deformations of the upper body bones.

 

and before the age of gunpowder you had crossbows that hade the same positive points. quick to learn, easy to make and simple to use. only problem with them was reload time. you could apply some of the same tactics with crossbows that they used with early muskets. several ranks of troops, some ranks reloading while other fired.

 

and the use of the bow have changed over the ages. the shortbow was used from chariot and later horseback as a kind of hit and run weapon. you would hurry up to the enemy and fire while on the move.

 

later the english longbow was mainly used as artillery by shooting the arrows in arcs over the enemy formations, raining down pain and death to break up formations before the knights and pikes would attack. thats not to say that a longbow would not be a potent direct fire weapon but was in many ways to large to be realy mobile. something you would need if you wanted to fire directly.

 

im no expert tho, i have just picked up info over time

(and a whole lot of time watching discovery )

Edited May 29, 2005 by duran

[Daxon]

the biggest single training point about bows is upper body strength. i recall hearing that skeletons of bowmen that have been found have shown deformations of the upper body bones.

 

Crossbows kind of took away the need for upper body strength though. Elite Horton Hunter crossbows can get just about anything done in these days.

 

and before the age of gunpowder you had crossbows that hade the same positive points. quick to learn, easy to make and simple to use. only problem with them was reload time. you could apply some of the same tactics with crossbows that they used with early muskets. several ranks of troops, some ranks reloading while other fired.

 

This was all a problem before they actually managed to invent repeating crossbows. Then everybody could unload.

 

and the use of the bow have changed over the ages. the shortbow was used from chariot and later horseback as a kind of hit and run weapon. you would hurry up to the enemy and fire while on the move.

 

Kind of makes you question the accuracy though. Makes you question the effectiveness vs. armor even more.

[duran]

i dont know the penetrative ability of a shortbow, but at that time only the richest people could afford much metal armor.

 

as for the repeating crossbow, that may be a d&d invention if your thinking of a handheld version. only repeating one i know of that may have realy existed as a leonardo design and was basicly a cart with multiple large crossbows stacked in rows. pull one lever and they where all fired. more like a shotgun then a repeater realy...

[ttlanhil]

another issue of bows vs crossbows was loading time, a longbowman could get off like 20 arrows a minute, it would take a while for a crossbowman to wind his crossbow before hw could fire

[Daxon]

i dont know the penetrative ability of a shortbow, but at that time only the richest people could afford much metal armor.

 

as for the repeating crossbow, that may be a d&d invention if your thinking of a handheld version. only repeating one i know of that may have realy existed as a leonardo design and was basicly a cart with multiple large crossbows stacked in rows. pull one lever and they where all fired. more like a shotgun then a repeater realy...

165575[/snapback]

 

You'd be amazed at how very intelligent Asian people are. Chu-ko-nu

 

Looks pretty handheld to me.

 

A common rate for bolts was something to the effect of 1 bolt:1.5 seconds. I'm more than positive it's gone up.

 

another issue of bows vs crossbows was loading time, a longbowman could get off like 20 arrows a minute, it would take a while for a crossbowman to wind his crossbow before hw could fire

 

I've never been much of the bow fan myself. I'd just prefer to blow them apart with cannons.

Edited May 29, 2005 by Daxon

[duran]

heh, figures that the crasy asians would have something like that at hand. looks kinda workable indeed, but im not sure if roja or others would allow it into the game (unless we give it a high break chance from the forces its exposed to after repeated use).

 

hell, the chinese used gunpower powerd rockets before one even knew what the stuff was in europe. but then it helps to have a big, stable goverment and most of all a very hands off religion that allowed people to think outside of the box without being branded as being in league with the devil or some other entity from a netherworld.

[trollson]

Is it really worth it to use a weapon with -10 accuracy?  -15?  Also, make it where they can't use a shield.  The last thing someone could do was use an old musket one handed.

165527[/snapback]

There have been shield-pistol combinations. AFAIR there was an example in the Royal Armoury, c. Henry VIII (?), of a thick bullet-proof targe, with a centrally mounted pistol (probably matchlock). The idea being to use the one shot from the firearm, and then draw sword and fight as normal. I suspect that it was too cumbersome to use in actual melee though, and probably would have been dropped after use in that case (though still a precuror of the gun shield on artillery?).

 

However, I suspect that firearms (the technology) would undermine the worth of magic. In medieval-fantasy settings, let magical items take the place of firearms (what do you think a "wand of fire" looks like?).

 

 

(TODO: find the ref. to the shield-pistol later, not in the books onhand).

[ttlanhil]

However, I suspect that firearms (the technology) would undermine the worth of magic.  In medieval-fantasy settings, let magical items take the place of firearms (what do you think a "wand of fire" looks like?).

165623[/snapback]

possibly, though there's a great game by the name of Arcanum, there magic and technogoly both exist, though careful design and balance. the two are oppsoites, though, so a mage is likely to cause their gun to misfire, and a technologist would suffer penalties using a magic sword. the big drawback to arcanum, in its epic set (most single or smalle scale multiplayer games have the same problem) is that you're constrained to the story.

As such, I don't think the idea really reached its potential (there were some pretty crazy-exciting designs you could learn.. late in the game, of course... and if you were strong, a basic sword was better than any hand cannon anyway, which was another problem)

Much as I like the magic/technology conflict, I don't really wanna see it happen in EL, it adds a lot of complication and work.

on yet another hand, the past quest says we're space explorers come to draia anyway, so having technology of a sort could happen... there's the streetlights (though they don't work) as well... whether dwarvish or gnomish design.

[duran]

there are some hints in the current quests and npc comments about the gnomes having some advanced tech. still, those where written while entropy was active with the game but now i dont know what directions things will take.

[Dimov]

I'd LOVE wooden handcannons. They'd have a small chanse of splintering in your hands dealing damage like a cavern wall. Half the population of a Medieval Hungarian village ( sorta mythic , but it may have happened) was killed from a big wooden cannon. So don't go with the excuses:

 

1) It's Medieval, therefore no guns: Gunpowder was perfectly normal in the ME.

2) It's fantasy. EL isn't fantasy according to me , just a couple of mosters and the tit serp and chimmy are the only thing that are unique to the game. Therefore EL has no themes.