Market Prices Dropping

[okiny]

Please Tick what u think

[valo13]

deff, need on some, cuz certain manu guys get desperate to sell and it kills the economy tit axes should be more then 15-20k thats horrible. so a min on most items would be nice

[makourain]

controlling the market is a bad idea, it increases the limitations on our freedom to play, and the limitations r increasing

[okiny]

well mako, it would not increase our limitationa at all it should help out any manufacturers to get them more money. If there is a bot or npc that buys a tit axe for 3 or 4k then that wouyld be the automatic minimum sale price. To sell it cheaper would only be for friends or guild mates. And you would not find it on the market cheaper than unless the person sellin it is insane lol.

[valo13]

maybe not complete control but some thing needs to change cuz prices are too low, i dont manu but even i know that this isnt good, wel for newbs it it, but not in the long run

[okiny]

Well think that seetin up base prices like that would do wonders for the EL economy .. it would be a big job but i think well worth it. There would still be people doin slash prices and sellin cheap occasssionally but only when they are drammatically overstocked and need to free up space. Otherwise the prices would stay above that set by the npc/bots

[Guest Storm]

If prices keep falling off so much what motivation do new players have to learn skills such as Manu or Crafting? It will be much easier to buy than make.

I suppose that if only a few people are left doing manu then prices may go back up though.

[okiny]

Well that is what im about here. If the bots/npcs buy for more than the market prices will be higher. This will encourage people to start on Manufacturing and Cratfing skills. <---- @ Storm

[Gen_Axis]

The only thing that can stop that is Trik buying all weapons/armors again... like in old times, so prices couldn't drop lower and lower because they can't go under Trik's buying prices... and it worked fine... if prices were low everybody just were selling stuff to Trik :-)

[Apokalypse]

The whole problem with prices is due to a lack pf patience, supply and demand is one thing, but underselling to compete with the last guy drives prices down significantly. There are times when hours pass and no one is looking for a particualr item, then there are times where ppl are looking to buy that item or buy bulk. There is no need to lower your price to a "cant pass that up" price" in order to sell that item. And as with price wars, competition is a good thing yes and makes this game fun, but to undercut a person over and over is dumb if the price drops to the point where manuers make no profit from the item due to the cost of materials. Why not just say "also selling <item> for this price" patience is a virtue, this game will be here for a while, slow down killer~

[Specter]

The whole problem with prices is due to a lack pf patience, supply and demand is one thing, but underselling to compete with the last guy drives prices down significantly. There are times when hours pass and no one is looking for a particualr item, then there are times where ppl are looking to buy that item or buy bulk. There is no need to lower your price to a "cant pass that up" price" in order to sell that item. And as with price wars, competition is a good thing yes and makes this game fun, but to undercut a person over and over is dumb if the price drops to the point where manuers make no profit from the item due to the cost of materials. Why not just say "also selling <item> for this price" patience is a virtue, this game will be here for a while, slow down killer~ biggrin.gif

 

Indeed so many people want to sell their item so fast and get a little bit of cash, so they sell way under the price it should be. but really all they end up doing is ruin the market.

 

People hold on to that item till you get your asking price, have soem patitance

[Minion]

I can't believe this is up for discussion.

 

Almost all items are essentially 'free' accept for time. So any price you get is a positive cash flow. If you buy the parts of the items, then you risk a minimum base price. (ie. Buying silver bars at 35, making rings out of them costs a minimum of 70 plus the sanding paper which equals 80 total, let alone other items such as FE, is your base price or cost of goods sold). If I make it myself, I will of course be cheaper. How much can I make? Not as much as 20 guys/gals. So I will run out of my 'cheap' stuff quickly.

 

Even if you put price controls on the market (thinking that this has never worked in any economy ) how would you regulate it? Let's get out the new EL department: Customs Moderators!

 

Still gonna sell at the price I want. Still gonna buy at the price I want.

 

Free Market or No Market!

Minion

[Minion]

I just thought of an answer to your dilema. For all the people that think prices are too low, just don't sell / buy anything. Go do something else for a month or two. Kill something, you know you want to!!!! Then return to a market that has had its cashflow decreased (your money) and product flow descreased (your product) which will by necessitate increased prices. Your happy, I'm happy, everyones happy!

 

Problem solved. Case closed.

 

Minion

Masters Degree in Business Administration

Edited March 10, 2005 by Minion

[Blackguard]

A minumum market price is not necessary:

 

http://www.econdash.net/econ101.asp

 

"If the price of a product or service is ?too low,? the quantity supplied will fall short of the quantity demanded, creating a shortage of the product. That shortage leads sellers to raise prices. In equilibrium, the price is ?just right,? with no surplus or shortage, because the quantity demanded equals the quantity supplied."

 

Summary: If people sell at really low prices, they will be bought out in a flash by people eager for a bargain, then the price will raise.

[chintan]

The price isn't the only thing controlling the supplied quantity. Some people make items such as essence just for xp and don't care about the market price. If the price drops, they will continue to make essence, lowering the equilibrium price a lot.

[Blackguard]

That's true... Experience is something that the creater gets and *should* make the item worth less. If you take crude oil, distill it, and sell the petrol, you will probably lose money because you are also obtaining a number of other fuels and jellies. when you make items, you get exp. too and you will probably have to compete with people who value exp. more than you do. If so, you should try to find something that is a lot harder to make than the amount of exp. earned. If these people are valuing their exp. too highly, their prices will be so cheap that they will quickly be run into the ground and obtain little exp. Therefor it is in their best intrest to value it accurately and if they find it too valuable, it will disadvantage them. If lots of people seem to be overvaluing experience and still able to supply demand, I would say that you are undervaluing your experience and should either apreciate it more or start making other things

Edited March 11, 2005 by Blackguard

[Ogle]

Trik should start buying everything

His prices should rise and then so will the prices on the market channel

HAS ANYONE EVER TRIED SELLING LEATHER GLOVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NitageR]

I have voted on: Maybe for Some of the Items. This are : cloaks, some books, stones etc

[Lyanna]

The price isn't the only thing controlling the supplied quantity.  Some people make items such as essence just for xp and don't care about the market price.  If the price drops, they will continue to make essence, lowering the equilibrium price a lot.

I think chintan makes a very vital point here... and because of it, I actually have to revise my whole thinking about the EL economy. <_<

 

Normal economic theory of supply and demand doesn't work in this game, because that assumes that price is the major determining factor affecting demand and supply. Unfortunately, it is not. The main driving force is actually experience, in my opinion. Since levelling up REQUIRES the mass-manufacturing of items, what we essentially have is a fixed supply curve. It will never drop below a certain base amount, no matter what the price is, simply because players need the experience to level up. And if the base amount is suitably high, or a lot of players happen to focus on that skill (like alchemy), the supply of finished goods inevitably rises, forcing the price down even further.

 

Likewise, the problem is that the demand for these items is not affected in the same way as supply is. You could say that the supply curve is an exponential increase, whereas the demand curve is linear. For example... alchemists HAVE to make (health) essences in order to gain experience and level up. Fighters do NOT have to use essences in order to gain experience and level up (although many do). To illustrate, the contribution of 4 Health Essences towards Alchemy is much less than towards the Attack/Defence. (eg. for a sufficiently high-HP fighter, the "Restoration" spell allows for much, much more attack and defence exp to be gained than for the alchemist who made those 4 Health Essences).

 

So, in short... that's the problem. People are doing it for the exp, not the money alone. And as long as that problem is not dealt with satisfactorily, we're going to come across the same problem again and again.

 

Any thoughts on how to take care of this?

 

-Lyn-

Edited March 11, 2005 by Lyanna

[Blackguard]

I overlooked the above and Lyanna made a good point in articulating that. However, this is still something that can be solved with economics, it just gets somewhat more complex. To use an analogy similar to my example above: Imagine that essences are the petrolium jelly obtained from crude oil. crude oil is being drilled and distilled for petrol (essences are made for exp.) which is then sold or used by the creators. They are left with petrolium jelly which still has value but was neither their goal nor their reason for drilling and distilling the crude oil. Therefore there will be a reletively fixed supply curve (as Lyanna pointed out). If we extend this analogy, we realize that no one buys, drills, or distills crude oils hoping to sell the petrolium jelly and there is not a very competetive market for petrolium jelly. Therefore I would say that people selling essences should either sell the individule ingredients (together or individually) to those eager to gain experience (like selling crude oil) or move into a different feild which involves experience that they want more or experience that plays a smaller role in item creation.

[Michel_DAO]

Why not try to increase the end users demands. EG

 

Shields etc break more often, Fighters get more gc's for a monster. Fighters go buy more shields. Through more money in the system Manufacturers might even buy more bars from the alchemists. Or get those manufacturered items more requirements EG not 5 iron bars but 10 iron bars per helmet.

[Highwarlord]

The EL economy is continually reset. It will develop eventually. It always takes time to develope an economy. For example, runescape has one of the best economies of any MMORPG and it took it TWO YEARS to get set straight. The players eventually set agreed upon prices, with some selling for less and others selling for more. Market fluctuates, but it works fine. However, untill the past year, the prices had been shooting up and down. The EL market too will eventually stabalize.

[Blackguard]

Unless you are refering to RS2... it took RS way more than two years to stabalize, it was atleast two years after it finished it's major expansions...

As for it having the most stable economy, not really true. No offense to those who play or have played RS (I myself spent about 2 years playing Runescape) but most of those that play RS are somewhat younger than the average MMORPG age and don't quite understand things as well, they're usually in it for the quests and the fighting, not the economy. If you want to see a stable economy, go check out Puzzle Pirates. I think that has something to do with the inclusion of shops and the majority of players being adults.

 

EDIT: Puzzle Pirates also doesn't include experience (or not very much...) so that may be one of the reasons why the economy stabalized so quickly and stayed stable even during expansion.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Blackguard

[Kenneth916]

I think that there is a common misconception that may be affecting this conversation.

 

The misconception that I am speaking of it 'most fighters make a lot of money'.

 

I started this game as an alchemist, making FE's... I can now make bars reliably (about 90% success).

I have also broken into fighting... and can now pwn several Gargoyles without healing.

 

With alchemy I was always making some gc, even if it was selling FE to an NPC for 3gc each.

I have only now started to make money fighting, with breakage rates and the cost of potions that allowed me to stay out there and fight.

 

My stats

Alchemy: 33/33

 

Attack: 37/37

Defense: 38/38

 

At 33 I'm an accomplished alchemist and even with A/D at higher levels than my alch I have much further to go before I'd call myself an accomplished fighter.

 

I think that one of two things needs to happen:

1. Create more things for alchemists to create, make the higher level things even harder to make, and create new things in the other skills that use those resources at a greater rate.

2. Realize the current reality, alchemy is not a 'Profession' in this game... it is however a core skill in order to be able to be a crafter, manufacturer, or Magic-User.

 

Currently, if only relatively new people made essences for sale, the supply would go down and the price would increase.

[RolandR1]

i think FEs should cost like 1gc per! since the ingreds are like flowers .25 each and sulfur like .5 gc and any1 even n00bs can make FEs they are too high priced