Automixing.

[duran]

problem is that you can make creative skills any less boring as there are no real danger in them and therefor no real challange. hell, even if the player had to assemble the pieces on the screen himself it would become boring after the xth repitition. but then, anything repeated x number of times becomes boring...

 

so unless you people out there have some realy creative ideas about how to make it less boring, stop complaining about how boring it is as just complaining dont help at all. we need solutions, not complaints right now as we are fully aware of the problems...

[Derin]

I agree with Piper on this one, the delays are just.... delays. There is little or no fun-factor in these delays.

 

Auto-mixing is not a solution, as far as I see things.

Personally i like the system as it is (part from the looong delays), and there could be more things to do, like making parts of items.

 

However, if you must use special furnaces and such things, you really should consider taking out the chance of failure or it will be a staggering time consumption, especially if you fail every other attempt.

 

What i don't really understand is this talk of this being boring, the things you make will be used to do other things. It's a part of the process.

Example: Making Spirit Restoration potions. I takes some harvesting, it takes some vial making (or buying), it takes some mixing, but THEN you can use these potions to help your summoning, or magic and/or fighting. That is not boring to me. Because if that is boring, then everything you ever do is boring. It's a question of definition.

 

Things as they are now, are slow, but not boring per se.

[Kami]

My only thought right now is that the delays will only be productive and accepted if they were "Intergrated" into the game playing itself. What I mean by this is that, as a player is playing the game, that player shouldn't even notice that there are delays. The player should naturally see this delays as normal Gameplay. But currently it's not like that. With so much starting and Stopping and Starting again and Stopping again, Players are getting Mental Whiplash!

 

When the Delay in Harvesting was implemented, it was generally accepted all but for the fact of all the constant Clicking that players had to do. This was solved by including the auto-harvest. Now Harvesting is no longer a Mind-bending Chore and Player's more or less accept it as a good balance between the Hard Work of "Playing" the game and Relaxing while their character does all the "Hard work!" I mean Literally! What was once the most Hardest work in the game was turned over to the computer and Players could then actually sit back a take a breather, before they're up and marching along, toiling away at their business.

 

What I am getting at is not that players should have it easier but that players should be able to Play more while they work and not notice (or atleast not Think about) the fact that they're moving at a slow yet steady pace. The Delays shouldn't be so discouraging.

 

My general point is that Player's shouldn't have to concern themselves with the Delay. Any delay in the process should be hidden so deep in what a player is doing that each and every success will actually encourage players of work harder without "Looming like a Forboding Shadow, Hanging as a Heavy Weight on their Hearts and their Minds." The Process shouldn't be like pulling Teeth!

 

Anyway, That was my train of thought while reading this thread. Take it as you would.

[kl4Uz]

We're working on a solution to this problem, so just have patience guys

 

I also hate a game that is boring and repetative...so i'm not going to keep it this way.

Atm it's very boring for me, cause i wanna become a summoner but have a low alch lvl --> I guess you know what that means...

[goliath_cobalt]

I've read this a couple times, my brains actually throbbing right now...LOL So if this has already been said I apologize.

 

Use the delays as they are, allow automixing, but you can't walk, and reduce your chances of success or create other events to stop the mixing. Higher level items won't be made much faster just because of the food consumption. The lower items will be held in check by random events or failures, much like harvesting.

 

Something that ties in with this that I've been thinking about. Don't just have a limit on Harvesting exp per hour, put a limit on each skill. And since someone will gripe that this will reduce specialization, maybe allow a perk for each skill that will allow you to double/triple the amount of exp you can gain in an hour.

 

Sincerely,

Goliath

[Brom]

<comments>

Honestly, I think the current system just needs some tweaking. People will always gripe about certain items taking longer but, well thats the way it should be. I say this only to be used until Roja's dream system is let out (Ill be glad to test it when it does) but a few items need to be changed, FE should be fast like they are now, HE are also in high use but the current rate at which they are produced is ridiculusly too fast. even a full second would be a bit too fast. I personally would like Life Essense to come faster, 2-3 seconds nearly kills me creating any great number (luckily I had a store before this update) but honestly I think that LE should take a while. Summoning is the primary use for Life Essense and it is a far less common skill, thus making the essenses should take a while. I have not created most of the items in the game but I only see one so far that should be adjusted, HE.

</comments>

Edited February 5, 2005 by EWQ222

[Geldon]

Should've posted this here, I guess:

Now it takes at least 3 times longer to level Potion/Manu/Crafting.

Everyone who leveled these skills before the last update has an unfair advantage over those who are leveling them now. If i would have known the update would include longer mix times, I would have leveled all these skills to 20+ before it happened. Now it's taking me forever. 

 

For these reasons and those stated by heretic --

PLEASE increase the EXP points for these skills by an amount proportional to the mix time increase. (lowering mix times slightly would also be appreciated.)

 

Comments:

• 
   
  
• I play this game because I enjoy making things -- It is no longer fun to make things.
   
  
• I used to get my OA lvls by harving diamonds every hour. Now I can do it almost 3 times faster by making HEs.
   
  
• I can understand how making complicated items can take a long time to mix, but 4+ seconds for leather gloves & basic potions?
   
  
• If you include the delay for alch'ing Gold/Silver Bars, Crafting now takes 6+ times longer than before.
   
  
• If I can't manu leather/clothing/basic items quickly how will I be able to get my lvls high enough to make more complicated items?
   
  
• Other games have automixing & 0% fail rates -- Amazingly, they are still fun to play. (A close to 20% failure rate on gold/silver bars & rings when I am well above the recommended lvls is extremely frustrating!)
   
  
• I understand that the delays have had some positive effects on the EL economy, but there are other ways of changing it without imposing a delay on production. Reducing the outrageous spread between NPC buy/sell prices would be a good start.
   
  

 

Suggestions:

Short term - Tweak the current system (SOON please!)

Increase HE times slightly

Decrease other item times slightly

Increase EXP points for basic items that take longer to make.

 

Medium term

Consider Automixing/eating -- Autoharvesting is GREAT, automixing could be too.

Addition of positive and negative mixing events.

Reduce failure rates for players that have the recommended lvls. or...

Consider giving exp points for failures (I often learn more about something when I fail at it.)

 

 

Long term

Redo for more interactivity as planned.

 

... and please keep the following in mind:

Repetative & tedious tasks are more suited for a machine rather than a human.

This is why human players of this implementation [are tempted] to use macros and auto[mixers]. (to shift the burden of the repetative/tedious tasks to the machine)

 

This is a role playing game and should be interactive. But Click, click, click, click, clicking... is more mind-numbing than interactive.

Therefore:

Any change in the game that shifts repetative/tedious tasks to a machine will eliminate the motive for players to automate these tasks themselves.

Also, if you can't shift the burden of tedious tasks to the computer, at least make the task LESS tedious -- NOT MORE tedious.

[Lord_Stalker]

Please seriously consider Goliath_Cobalt's and Geldon's ideas.

 

There is much wisdom in these 2 posts.

 

Use the delays as they are, allow automixing, but you can't walk, and reduce your chances of success or create other events to stop the mixing. Higher level items won't be made much faster just because of the food consumption. The lower items will be held in check by random events or failures, much like harvesting.

 

Something that ties in with this that I've been thinking about. Don't just have a limit on Harvesting exp per hour, put a limit on each skill. And since someone will gripe that this will reduce specialization, maybe allow a perk for each skill that will allow you to double/triple the amount of exp you can gain in an hour.

 

and

 

 

I play this game because I enjoy making things -- It is no longer fun to make things.

 

I used to get my OA lvls by harving diamonds every hour. Now I can do it almost 3 times faster by making HEs.

 

I can understand how making complicated items can take a long time to mix, but 4+ seconds for leather gloves & basic potions?

 

If you include the delay for alch'ing Gold/Silver Bars, Crafting now takes 6+ times longer than before.

 

If I can't manu leather/clothing/basic items quickly how will I be able to get my lvls high enough to make more complicated items?

 

Other games have automixing & 0% fail rates -- Amazingly, they are still fun to play. (A close to 20% failure rate on gold/silver bars & rings when I am well above the recommended lvls is extremely frustrating!)

 

I understand that the delays have had some positive effects on the EL economy, but there are other ways of changing it without imposing a delay on production. Reducing the outrageous spread between NPC buy/sell prices would be a good start.

 

 

 

Suggestions:

Short term - Tweak the current system (SOON please!)

Increase HE times slightly

Decrease other item times slightly

Increase EXP points for basic items that take longer to make.

 

Medium term

Consider Automixing/eating -- Autoharvesting is GREAT, automixing could be too.

Addition of positive and negative mixing events.

Reduce failure rates for players that have the recommended lvls. or...

Consider giving exp points for failures (I often learn more about something when I fail at it.)

 

 

Long term

Redo for more interactivity as planned.

 

... and please keep the following in mind:

 

QUOTE 

Repetative & tedious tasks are more suited for a machine rather than a human.

This is why human players of this implementation [are tempted] to use macros and auto[mixers]. (to shift the burden of the repetative/tedious tasks to the machine)

 

This is a role playing game and should be interactive. But Click, click, click, click, clicking... is more mind-numbing than interactive.

Therefore:

Any change in the game that shifts repetative/tedious tasks to a machine will eliminate the motive for players to automate these tasks themselves. 

 

 

Also, if you can't shift the burden of tedious tasks to the computer, at least make the task LESS tedious -- NOT MORE tedious.

 

 

People will automate. It's a proven history. We will make a machine that will do repetative tasks for us. Hence: macros.

 

 

Think about it.

 

BTW, I really do like the game.

 

Lord_Stalker