MannyNZ

Hey Finja, thanks for pointing me out to those various links. (So far I have only read into the first, tbh) Let me quote from there: And also: Having seen that since 2012 the situation obvs. didn't improve, I think that we should take those two quotes to our hearts! I agree with you that the shrine thing alone wouldn't solve that issue, still I want to keep that idea of a competition in mind for later when PK is more balanced again. Agreed as well. It never was my intention to punish others, but rather i wanted to give a motivation (reward) for participating in PK. Having said that I do see now that I have overseen the bad side effect this would cause on all non-PKers mainly due to the reason as they can't compete! (imbalanced PK) And this is the point I want to target now. Is everyone fine to have that in this thread of rather start a new one? My suggestion is to create (theoretically) with a new discussion a new PK situation from scratch which resembles the initial PK time when EL was a young game. Idea: Start with a trial of low player PK (so literally everyone can participate). Set a cap of OA level to participate. Everyone has roughly same amount of PP to spend within that cap. Thus players can try different builds and will only face other players within same PP range. As every skill contributes to OA, one really has to decide what skill to use and how far (what level) one goes within that skill. Second: Limit gear to only human 0. This more or less gives everyone a similar situation. (Please input of those having experience with gear for different builds, if human 0 really would serve all "classes" as ranger, summoner, mage, tank, fighter, etc ...) Third: Take out any overpowered items like rc mines etc. To realize the OA cap, one can think of a similar scenario like invance, but instead of iscal maybe td or kf or any other interesting map which is all PK then and will spawn people randomly on that map (no camping at spawn) I think for now this was all. If you agree with that concept to start make a fair balanced pk again and you think we should start a new thread for this particular topic, then please do it or tell me to do it Kind regards

First of all, thanks for that detailed explanation of why you don't like certain parts. This helps me to understand the why you think this idea is bad, much more Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most of why people think this idea won't work is due to the quoted parts. As PK seems to be very unbalanced at the moment, right? One spontaneous idea of mine would be to make certain PK maps a/d limited. So if you are overcapped you can't attack other players with lower range. This would more ore less guarantee a certain fairness as a/d gap between players isn't that high anymore. At the same time I was thinking of making this shrine thing only be possible for a low a/d level range: * As everyone can make alts it should be possible for everyone to participate in it. * As a/d gap wouldn't be high, more balanced teams in that competition could be made. * For taking part in PK fun one wouldn't need to level a char for ages, as low levels are made quick * Classes do play a role again as with low a/d cap a tank would be beneficial, maybe summoners too. * Certain criteria would be needed on top: So that no uber-powered mage would take part and maybe some restriction on gear (no gear above human x). => make PK very bare pure, focus more on tactics, players, builds, and less on armor and items! If I'm right that the main problem of PK are the quoted parts, then I think it's important to focus on some guidelines to ensure those problems are solved / don't occur in a suggestion to revive PK. If there are further reasons why you (everyone) don't like to PK, then please list them all here and we can gather them in order to have a TO-DO list to look through when making suggestions. Thank you very much for your input vinoveritas , I think it was very valuable indeed.

Exactly... I don't want to make that thread drift into off-topic, so any concerns of "who I am", please ask via forum PM. All I am going to say here is that I take that idea serious and am not trying to troll in any way!!! Sorry, but just saying this is "a bad idea" is too flat for me. Tell me what parts you don't like and why. What parts do you like? What needs to be changed/altered/improved? This idea focuses in improving a game feature called PK, so there is no way i want to suggest to make leveling a/d even easier than it is already (I agree, that 3 dailies with a/d reward already are enough)! As I have mentioned I don't know the whole community yet. But I know that there are a lot of players with years of experience (even active in the forum). Yet players complain about "PK really is dead". My concerns are to change that and give back some fun to a nice game feature and strongly invite anyone (including those mentioned players with years of experience) to contribute in order to find a working solution. Some players have already mentioned: This part isn't good, so we need to change that. Some have suggested how to alter my initial idea in some aspects to make it a better... I need more of that input please and not more of that off-topic stuff To sum it up, I want to thank everyone for their input in order to find together a working solution with that most players can have fun in EL, including mixers and PKers and PVEers. (ofc "all" never works )

Make them usable till they run out. So there might be a time where both stones and shrines work (ofc not both at exact same time) To be honest I don't know all creatures that drop those stones, 2xmanu isn't a stone iirc, and 2x crafting doesn't exist as far as i know... so I don't think it would effect too many stones. Those creatures related ofc wouldn't drop those stones anymore. Possibly there could be replacement stones for them, like mushroom day or others. This is open to discussion. As already mentioned in my answer to Burn, if the 1/2 exp really is such a bad thing it could be dropped. I thought reviving PK is a good thing, but hearing that there are also only few mixers left I start to wonder what is still left (barely PK, few mixers ... ?? ) As a side note, how big (take away alts) is this game community? Please explain why you would prefer Thelinor? I decided to mention only C1 PK maps in my thread, as I wanted this feature to be accessible to all players, also to lower level ones who don't know yet about C2 or don't go there due to dangerous creatures. As already mentioned, it is not and never was my intention to punish mixers Any suggestion to divide players into two teams (not punishing any minority) will be very appreciated. I wonder if that is easy to realize (coding) to make that feature only related to combat skills, if it somehow is, I'd prefer it as it doesn't divide mixers and PKers. I can understand that argument. Often people miss out on such days tho (RL or other reasons) my thought of 1 hours was to make it also possible for those players to catch this special time more often (or even make the special time happen on their own effort when they need it). But I also can understand that for some people fixed/announced days can be some community events. Another side note as I didn't want to post just for saying thanks: Thank you for Gwaew suggestions and input. And ofc also thanks to all other input showing up problems of my suggestion. I really would like to find a way to solve those issues in order to come up together with a working solution how to revive PK (some kind of endless ongoing competition) in a fair way without punishing a minority group. Kind regards

Well I don't follow all day stones used, but I can imagine that already some day stones other but tzu have been used by fighters. Correct me if I'm wrong here. True this is one possibility, to collect all. After discussion this can be kept as such or altered that you only can carry one artifact at a time. Even then enough players could all just keep them one by one in their inventory. So this is def. a subject open to discussion. If you have read my post you would see that scientists and recycle day still would run as normal (I didn't suggest to touch them) Considering this, then the PK concept would be a total fail in this game, when u only can compete if you do Teh right build. And even then you wouldn't be able to catch up with higher level players, playing already way longer in time than you. Side note: I do ~90% of time mixing, yet i think I'm not too bad in combat, at least i survived invasions and invances before. And of course I would suck in PK, but not because I'm mixer, but rather because I am a n00b player considering how long I have played compared to those 160+ oa levelers (maybe a/d limited PK maps would regulate that, but not topic of that thread) I agree with you, that builds can make a change, but so does number of players, tactics, equipment, time of day... (baddies that want to dominate the system would need to watch/guard the shrine 24/7). I agree with you here, as I never intended to divide those two groups, i rather wanted to divide two groups of PKers. And you are right, my main idea to stimulate PK is to create two groups having some interest for the same thing. I truely welcome any further ideas how players can be divided into two or more teams, (ofc in a most possible fair way). As always, any input is wanted in order to find a working solution together.

Well I still can't imagine how those 1/2 would be that bad ... maybe I'm not addicted enough yet Anyways I put this up for discussion including as I wrote alternation. So one point we could modify about that idea: cross out the 1/2 exp for other skills and just give 2x exp for that specific skill. More discussion please

Hmm not too sure about it. <Player> was camping on hydro path for quite a long time but that didn't stop other people from doing hydro runs . There were even some events where players of different guilds did unite their power against this <Player> in order to clear path to hydro. So def. can imagine that players will sooner or later start to try to get the shrine under their control, thus PK action. Besides as I have mentioned there are still the other special days, so e.g. for some pure mixer there still is half cooldown and there still is joules, which deactivates the shrine. But thanks for your opinion, I'm curious about more opinions/suggestions/alternations. PS: The main idea what i support that conflict of interests is, because if there is nothing in for you to win, why should one bother to got into PK and possibly loose stuff. The reward (2x exp) would drive ppl into entering those maps, either by pure PK, or invisible or any other tactics, but I'm sure this could bring back some of PK action.

Hi, In MMORPGs I pretty much like Mage builds and the skill Magic. Therefore its somehow sad to see that Magic only supports spells up to Level 50 (out of 179?) and personally I don't see the point to level beyond failsafe restore anyways apart from getting extra OA exp. Therefore I want to suggest to broaden the repertoire of magic with additional high level spells, to give leveling magic skill again new aims. Knowing that certain weapons have elemental additional damage and already having spells to protect against those elementals I'd like to suggest the counterparts of those protection spells. At the same time i personally don't see any real use for Enriched Energy Essences so far and according to that http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59494 I'm not the only person here. Now my suggestions: * Conflagration: uses 1 Enriched Energy Essence, 2 Magic Essences and 5 Fire Essences * Blizzard: uses 1 Enriched Energy Essence, 2 Magic Essences and 5 Water Essences * Lightning Bolt: uses 1 Enriched Energy Essence, 2 Magic Essences and 5 Energy Essences All of those attack spells do some ground damage depending on magic level + some extra elemental damage (heat/cold/radiation according to the order of names). As those are just numbers I'd like to get some damage formula proposed by experienced players in order to not imbalance magic skill and provide a nice addition for Mages instead! It also can be discussed if a new sigil should be introduced for those advanced spells or not. Generally I would like to hear everyones opinion about my suggestion and hope that we get something useful out of this Kind regards

TBH i love that suggestion made by SAWolf. I know that magic spell from an other MMORPG and its awesome. In order to counteract revi's worries about that spell getting abused its easy: Once a person gets summoned/teleported to your position, before that happens the other person gets a pop up and needs to confirm that it accepts being teleported to the person executing the spell. This spell really makes awesome tactics in pk possible. Team pk events will have nice twists with mages executing such spells. I do agree that this spell needs to be prohibited in some areas, like e.g. Hydro cave, otherwise ppl could bypass the pk areas on hydro runs. But talking about those preventions of abuse and excluding them, would make that spell a nice interesting feature. General thanks for those replies so far and for those many additional suggestions of enriching magic skill. Just wondering what do you think about my suggestions? Like/Dislike? Kind regards

The current price is already at 1-1.5 milgc for nexus rems. Or did i miss something? Edit: Only difference is as Inferno said gc is rotated up to now, that NPC would actually take out a lot of gc then.

I think we got a really nice solution here now: * Recycling day stone, from Badaran. http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59601 Happy hunting everyone and ty radu.

Just had another random thought: Remove recycle day and introduce an ingame spot with lowered crit rate. Like the Fast Regen Spot on IP another Spot somewhere, where our current astro gets slightly altered so we crit a bit less. This was just a spontaneous idea that came into mind and I welcome every thoughts about if that is a good or bad idea Pro: People would go there and mix up stuff, but still have chance to crit once in a while -> reduces hoarding. Con: Not sure about how much work that is to implement.

I don't think that will happen. Greed always wins over lowering prices On the other points I actually agree. As much as I like the idea of getting recycled stuff thus making free gc during that day as much I hate to have to wait that long which makes me save up stuff instead of mix it and be happy with it. So no clear "no" for your second suggestion from my side. (Would be some kind of relief from all that waiting too). I'll go and edit in your suggestion into that list I made in my previous post.

+1 Yeah that is what i think as well, or at least what i think it should be implemented that way. And back to topic: So far we have the following suggestions: 1) Pay an NPC 25kgc to be able to use recycle day. 2) Remove stone days from the pool of natural days -> other special days occur more often. 3) Make recycle day a 24hour lasting global reward. 4) Nenocrit or Badaran drop recycle day stone. 5) Remove Day of Recycling. I would like to discuss pros and cons for those 4 suggestions we have gathered so far . Edit: added in suggestion 5)

I wouldn't support that idea of the 25kgc to pay to use a day. This only forces EL into a two class society, those who can afford the 25kgc and those who can't. (Btw. i could afford it so this is not about me ). For the lower lvl players who can't afford it that day would suck and I'm sure they also would be happy to recycle the one or two SRs or steel bars they make and paying for that 25kgc would be an overkill to those players. That is actually a good idea. Would mean in the end that stone days would never occur naturally again. Thus people need to get the stones themselves. This would also mean more Badaran and Nenocrit hunts, thus opening again a better market for the items involved in hunting either of the two to obtain day stones. I'm not familiar with the special day mechanics, is this an actual fact? Two scenarios I can think of. First would be a separate dice roll for each day, meaning day 1 probability x, day 2 probability y ... once a day hist and this day becomes the special day then. That way the order is dependent and day 3 actually doesn't have a chance of z, but rather a probability of (1-x)*(1-y)*z to occur. This is fairly not ideal and therefore I agree with bkc56 that it's basic statistics, though i don't think the probabilities discrete uniform distributed e.g. 1/x (x= number of special days) as he suggested. (Otherwise we would have recycle occurring more often) I rather believe that all probabilities add up to 1 but are different. As an example we only have 3 days. That would make probabilities k for ordinary day, x for special day 1, y for special day 2 and z for special day 3. Thus k+x+y+z = 1. (Where k is larger in comparison to x,y,z of course). Introducing a new special day 4 now has to lower the probability of either of the 4 existing days, otherwise the sum can't stay 1. As now k+x+y+z+h = 1 has to be true and h is the probability of special day 4 occurring with h>0 this means that k+x+y+z < 1 and therefore probability of either or all other days get reduced when introducing a new special day. And now back to the main Topic: As I have said earlier on i quite like RM's suggestion. Another idea would be make recycle day a 24 hour lasting global quest reward. The global so far isn't really fun (another topic). And I am sure if recycle day could be a rewards more people would contribute towards the global quest.

Daritha daily: Daritha doesn't want to give me time, she is very eager that i do that task today!

Well I want to start off with 1 suggestion I really like. Replacing the gate-keeper with an object/NPC is in my eyes a good idea, as in that way everyone gets the same amount of playing time in the invance (no one just needs to sit and wait for a mob). At the same time there is no instant failure anymore, as one could implement a message pop-up when that NPC is under attack, giving all invancers enough time to go back to the gate and help out there (NPC works as a buffer = no instant failure). Having said that I want to explain my disagree on gear/nexus requirements as suggested here: I still don't understand why there are even those requirements, as for me the effort that got put in by a participant counts. So if someone can kill the mobs in augmented leather armor the same as someone in iron/steel/titanium armor, it is the same effort for me. So as long as there is no handicap for the team regarding the win/fail of the invance i don't see the necessity of limiting ones build by determining a minimum nexus or gear (i assumes we talk about human nexus). Exaggerating this one also could say invancers need minimum magic level of 49 for failsafe restore and a minimum rationality level to even heal enough. If they can't and die and thus don't contribute to the teams effort they shouldn't be in that invance, but that shouldn't be measured on the build or gear. I also have read some idea of checking gear before giving the XP bonus. Regarding that 1 scenario came into my mind. What happens if someone fights the whole time and his/her armor breaks just before the last few mobs are killed. Checking than the armor before distributing the XP bonus would be hard to that person as s/he would not gain it due to too low armor. Maybe I should also state that so far i have only taken part in 4060 (haven't tried 6080 yet, as i don't know if gear requierments already apply there at the current situation) and can imagine that it makes sense to have better armor at higher invances. Again, what armor that has to be has to be decided by each person him/herself so that this person can contribute in the invance. If that person can't find/wear or doesn't want to use such an armor then the person shouldn't be allowed in that invance. PS: with contributing I mean killing normal mobs solo and not the boss mobs which are meant to be done in a team. (This also implies that people who can easy kill the lower level mobs should leave them to others and focus themselves onto stronger mobs). Hope I could contribute a bit to that discussion and as I have written at the beginning, I really would like to see the idea with replacing the gate-keeper be developed. Kind Regards MannyNZ Edit: Agreed. Diversity in time could lead to more fun. (If there aren't enough players invance will run out after time limit anyways).