Jump to content


Photo

80+ tank build


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 groomsh

groomsh

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 938 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 July 2011 - 09:23 PM

I'd like some insight on making a GOOD TANK build for 80+ and 100+ instance.
I'm not interested in fighter/DPS build, but just the tank build.

I am considering to rebuild my char using removal stones, but would like to have more info before i start :)
I'd appreciate some reasoning of your suggested builds.

#2 Elgoran

Elgoran

    Skunk

  • Members
  • 102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Leipzig, Germany

Posted 06 July 2011 - 10:33 PM

Hello groomsh,

there are several ways how you can tank an instance, so without knowledge of your a/d-levels and the number of pickpoints at your disposal any advice given is pretty much be a shot in the dark. I'll still give it a try.
To the best of my knowledge there are 2 extremes:
If you're a pure deftrainer or at least a faithful aluwenite and have a decent gap between your att- and def-level you could try to max Instinct and distribute the leftover PP between Coordination and will. This build aims at blocking almost all non-critical hits. This way you won't get hit too often, but if you do get hit, expect some severe damage. This build also has the advantage that, due to not maxing Phys, taking will and not unnecessarily raising your CL by att-levels, you might be able to wear thicker armor and still get to be the selected target without having to take your plate off or casting poison.

The other extreme was to max physique and vitality and eventually taking the evasion and/or mirrorskin perks. This way you didn't care really to naturally block hits but reduce the damage taken with toughness and armor. I believe that in its extreme this doesn't work anymore for the 80+. The way i understood and experienced the new critical damage system it leads to situations where a higher toughness ultimately results in taking more damage. If your enemy scores a critical-to-damage hit and your toughness would reduce that to, let's say 1-3 points of damage, you're fine. But if your toughness would reduce it to 0, the new system kicks in and you get hit for a higher amount.

That said, a good tank build is something in between those 2 or maybe the first extreme variant. Another word of advice from me would be to not focus too much on a powerful restore. With a lower restore, you will of course use up more healing resources, but you won't hesitate to heal early, which can save you a rosto or two in case of lags.
If someone knows better and feels i am talking complete rubbish here, s/he is ofc free to post their enlightening words of wisdom.
Best regards,


Elgoran.

Edited by Elgoran, 06 July 2011 - 10:34 PM.


#3 groomsh

groomsh

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 938 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:08 AM

Well my current stats are:

p/c/r/w/i/v: 36/48/20/24/4/4
I have 6 PPs on hand and my a/d is 94/95 (i started to serve def. god just recently).
Also i have no fighting perks (positive or negative).

#4 evilmangopie

evilmangopie

    Snake

  • Members
  • 550 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:40 AM

I believe that in its extreme this doesn't work anymore for the 80+. The way i understood and experienced the new critical damage system it leads to situations where a higher toughness ultimately results in taking more damage. If your enemy scores a critical-to-damage hit and your toughness would reduce that to, let's say 1-3 points of damage, you're fine. But if your toughness would reduce it to 0, the new system kicks in and you get hit for a higher amount


While what you say about the new system is fairly true, if the maximum damage a tank can be hit for is 8 then that's a pretty good position to be in.

Another word of advice from me would be to not focus too much on a powerful restore. With a lower restore, you will of course use up more healing resources, but you won't hesitate to heal early, which can save you a rosto or two in case of lags.


Not really in the case of adding will, as it increases your HP along with your restore.
With level 50 magic and 4 r/w, and max phys you would restore 120, and your HP with col is 280, so ideally you would restore at 160 hp. Add 20 more will, you now restore 50 more, 170. However your hp also increases by 50, to 330, so you would still restore at 160 hp.

Saying this there are obvious reasons why lots of people don't like will.


And to groomsh, if you are committed to being a tank I would suggest firstly removing all your reasoning, using the PPs to max p/c, and usting the other PPs on vit/inst. You dont need dex from reas, and if you want rat you can take will, which also increases hp/mp. Phys will increase hp, make you absorb hits more, and increase EMU which are all useful. Choosing between vit and inst is essentially choosing between damage absorption and dodging hits. Imo its best to increase them fairly equally, you want to dodge as much as you can but you also want crits to hurt less. Vit also is useful in increasing mana, giving you longer before going into mana cooldown when in difficulty.

You also want to remove some will, especially if your mag level is high, and use these PPs in v/i. Additionally you might consider eva perk, and could prove more useful than the PPs in inst, if you are already dodging almost all non crit to hit hits. However with a low a/d gap like yours this would seem unlikely.

Wow, big text wall, anyway IMHO something like:

48/48/4/20/8/12

With your current PPs, perhaps removing more will. If there are any "good" negs (oxymoron I know) that you haven't taken, id recommend getting them and increasing I/V further.

Just my two pence, everyone will have their own opinion.

Edit: What perks do you have?

Edited by evilmangopie, 07 July 2011 - 11:45 AM.


#5 groomsh

groomsh

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 938 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:56 AM

Edit: What perks do you have?

I have only antisocial from negperks but i am not that inclined to get more any time soon ;)

#6 evilmangopie

evilmangopie

    Snake

  • Members
  • 550 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:58 AM

Not even ph? :P

#7 groomsh

groomsh

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 938 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:07 AM

Not even ph? :P

Well nope :) I'd hate it as a mixer (i do mix a LOT, and fight very little ;))
Edit: I have no problem to wait few more OAs tho :D

Edited by groomsh, 07 July 2011 - 11:08 AM.


#8 tosh

tosh

    Rabbit

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France.

Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:45 AM

I never try these builds, but I think, they can work :

48/4/32/12/4/48
Health (with CoL) : 300hp
Mana : 240
Restaure (50 magic lvl) : 210hp
EMU : 520

Advantages : Good restaure, good mana bar, very good toughness.
Inconvenient : you dodge nothing, bad EMU, very difficult to train.


48/48/4/4/16/28
Health (with CoL) : 280hp
Mana : 120
Restaure (50 magic lvl) : 120hp
EMU : 960

Advantages : Medium dodging, medium toughness, good EMU.
Inconvenient : very bad restaure (you need a high magic level), bad mana bar.


12/48/4/32/48/4
Health (with CoL) : 260hp
Mana : 144
Restaure (50 magic lvl) : 190hp
EMU : 600

Advantages : Very high dodging, good restaure.
Inconvenient : very bad toughness, bad EMU


After, you can mix these builds.
And I'm not a pr0 fighter, so I don't know if all builds can work (I doubt with the second build because of the low restaure).

Edited by tosh, 07 July 2011 - 11:51 AM.


#9 evilmangopie

evilmangopie

    Snake

  • Members
  • 550 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2011 - 12:32 PM

Build 1 and 3 are quite crazy, no offense. 32 reas as pure tank build!? 4 coord!? That's how to build a Dust/Bellatrix like a>d char. Well you could split the reas to will and coord, then take mirror, eva and igitd perks I guess. Would kill the char for training even more though

Or 12 phys, 4 vit and 32 will? It's very much impossible to dodge every hit, crit to hit exists. Can only work for a char with a massive a/d gap, which groomsh does not have

Not to mention the suggested builds would require lots of removal stones, and would be bad both for mixing and harving with low EMU, and messed up for training.

No offense intended btw, just my thoughts.

#10 Korrode

Korrode

    Panda Bear

  • Members
  • 3848 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 08 July 2011 - 04:49 AM

OP asked me to comment so...
Assuming you don't want to goto a low-Might (which means low EMU) def training build (like what Elgoran mentioned), which has negative effects on many other parts of gameplay, basically just listen to evilmangopie.

Full phys and coord, as much vit and inst as u can get. Eva perk definitely.
Other perk considerations:
  • Take NMT perk so u can wear Mirror cape. Personally I recommend doing this, crit-dodge+Eva perk+Mirror perk gives u a significant chance to not be hit before the combat system even gets to your defense and reaction. Alternatively you could take mirror perk and wear NMT, which means no cape breakages ever, but I don't overly recommend having Mirror perk for a/d training, though it's not so bad.
  • TINF perk. Certainly not required, in fact u could take ICD and still be a (cautious) tank, but still TINF is nice.
edit: and yeah, tosh's posted builds 1 and 3 aren't setups i'd recommend.

Edited by Korrode, 08 July 2011 - 04:51 AM.


#11 groomsh

groomsh

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 938 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:41 AM

Thx for input from all of you ;)
One more question, should i take inst/vit evenly or should i prefer one of them ?

#12 Korrode

Korrode

    Panda Bear

  • Members
  • 3848 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:20 PM

One more question, should i take inst/vit evenly or should i prefer one of them ?

I lack in-depth knowledge of the 80-100 instance so I can't give exact numbers, perhaps someone else can... it's about knowing when you've reached the upper dodge limit for stuff in there. Looking at el-wiki.net you go up against Nasps and possibly Yeti. Regarding the Nasps, inst will be useless cause you won't be dodging them (other than crit-dodge and Eva perk dodges) anyway, and for the Yeti unless you've been on a def training setup for ages and have like 120+ def and <60 attack (so u can still do the instance) inst will be basically useless regarding them too. But for other stuff in there (the Labagiu for eg., which according to the wiki has 110 attack) inst will probably impact your dodge ability for them significantly, and would be worth favoring over vit. (Would be good if someone can update the wiki with Chitros and Japita attack levels ;p)

Like I said, without doing the instance myself and knowing the attack level of everything and being able to make educated guesses on the creature attribs, I can't give specific answers.

#13 bigkav

bigkav

    Skeleton

  • Members
  • 1169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kilaran Field - Seridia

Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:08 PM

One more question, should i take inst/vit evenly or should i prefer one of them ?

I lack in-depth knowledge of the 80-100 instance so I can't give exact numbers, perhaps someone else can... it's about knowing when you've reached the upper dodge limit for stuff in there. Looking at el-wiki.net you go up against Nasps and possibly Yeti. Regarding the Nasps, inst will be useless cause you won't be dodging them (other than crit-dodge and Eva perk dodges) anyway, and for the Yeti unless you've been on a def training setup for ages and have like 120+ def and <60 attack (so u can still do the instance) inst will be basically useless regarding them too. But for other stuff in there (the Labagiu for eg., which according to the wiki has 110 attack) inst will probably impact your dodge ability for them significantly, and would be worth favoring over vit. (Would be good if someone can update the wiki with Chitros and Japita attack levels ;p)

Like I said, without doing the instance myself and knowing the attack level of everything and being able to make educated guesses on the creature attribs, I can't give specific answers.

After farming the 80-100 instance I can recommend having 2:1 vit:inst, you want around 20-24 instinct and as much toughness as you can get your hands on. Also, evans is essential, the extra dodge goes a long way on hard hitters.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users