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Nessa

How far up for an object?

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Is there a limit to how high a non-walkable object should be or it's just a matter of keeping things within viewing distance from a place you can stand on?

(Btw, the default viewing distance is 80, but 80 what? Just curious. ^^)

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Shouldn't you just mark a tile with a non-walkable object as non-walkable? Afaik, the height at which you place an object has no bearing on the tile being walkable or not.

(If that's not what you mean, I didn't understand your question)

 

For other information, you might want to raed the map editor manual

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Ooops! Totally missed your post... ^^;

No, I wasn't asking in terms of where you can walk but how much is viewable from where you are. In other words - if it makes more sense to you - If I were to stand on higher ground, I would be seeing higher and therefore that would extend the amount of er... "admitable object placing altitude", for lack of a better term. :P

As it turns out, this really isn't an issue for me but I was curious. Nothing I ever read on map making (and I've read pretty much everything everywhere) explained this or what viewing distance is measured in. I ran some tests but couldn't figure out what it was. Again, not essencial to what I'm doing but I like to know how stuff works.

Got another question, btw (and this one does matter) - why when punching a hole through the standard ground, to raise or lower the floor, do ppl use 3d tiles instead of 2d ones to cover it up? I mean... 2 faces would be far lighter on the game than 12 so I'm assuming there's a reason why everyone apparently avoided it. I thought the camera might go through them but that's not the case (in the editor at least) so I don't get it. Did they all just forget about it? :confused:

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Not every issue shows up in the editor, vastly different approach in rendering between it and the client.

The best thing to do for experimentation is have an entirely separate setup of the client that is only used on test server. Take a map like Whitestone (or an internal map if the experiment involves an inner map) and edit that file in the experimental client setup. Run it on test and see how it turns out.

 

Trial and error is really the only way to learn it. What causes things to flicker in the client, etc.

 

While 3d items can flicker if placed improperly, 2d items are much, much more prone to it. I'm still cleaning up 2d flickering on many maps and I doubt I'll ever clear it all.

 

 

That could be one reason 2d items are used solely for decorative purposes as absolutely necessary, and 3d gets preferred. But really it depends on the taste and ability of whoever made the map.

 

A solid 2d-only ground would be incredibly difficult to do without a lot flickering. (Flickering = when you walk past something, it "flashes" competing with another 2d or 3d object to be visible. The road paths right next to the red roses in VotD in the current client do this, for example.)

Personally I just default prefer 3d items due to the reduced chances for flickering. As for memory issues in the client, it's not that big a deal these days, we're talking about stuff that was running on 2003 computers. The only real lag issues are (detailed) water, and too many detailed trees/bushes, such as in WVF and KJ.

 

 

As for object distance... there's no such rules. Generally speaking, test it as stated above in a special test-only client setup. If it can be seen using whatever the default viewing distance is on a new install okay, then it's okay. For height, remember the player has to be able to see and click to move, test that it's not too much in the way when it comes to higher objects.

Edited by Burn

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Doh!

:omg:

I'm such an idiot...

I spend a lot of my days coming up with computer work-arounds and when considering the test server to help me get a better idea of what was I doing, I totally missed the obvious solution.

 

 

I see, flickering.

So far I haven't really had much of a problem with it despite the fact the way the editor works is often at odds with my style of worldbuilding.

 

I don't have that much water to worry about (I wouldn't be able to do what I'd like to with it anyway) and I'm aware of what a literal drag alpha maps can be so I'll try to keep those to a mininum.

The reason I've been concerned about how "heavy" in general the map might get is because how often I find guildmaps lagging. Yeah, half of them are cluttered as hell but just the other day I was exploring one that shouldn't have been lagging that much and it was. A lot. Maybe I was having a bad internet day, I dunno. I'll go back to chek on it again.

 

Another reason is that I know how the guys doing the maps in OL often complain of the lagging they're getting on maps that seem uncluttered enough to me. Granted, I dunno if they've changed the render engine, if it differs in any way of what EL is using, but one of the guys there was doing something in a similar style to mine and he decided it just wouldn't work.

So, yeah, basically I've been cutting down as much as I can where I can to avoid similar results.

 

 

Thanks for all the info, guys, this should help. :)

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Just to make sure we are speaking the same language:

with "lagging" you mean delays due to a poor internet connection?

I don't quite see why a "busy" map would cause lag. There's literally nothing to be downloaded for the maps (once the client knows the map name).

All that needs to come from server is creature information (name, health, position and such), and the reaction to you clicking a map object (a few bytes, normally).

 

I would expect a complicated map to show a drop in FPS, but that's independant of the network connection.

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Yeah, I'm only referring to FPS above. As the map itself comes from the client, internet connection has little to nothing to do with it.

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I meant FPS drop too. I see it happen in the situations Burn mentioned, see a difference depending on whether I'm outside or in a small room, and some days it just randomly happens.

 

If it's not render overload, the server being lazy or internet connection, then I'm lost.

I know how to make pics not the rest of the stuff. ^^

Edited by Nessa

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