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List of the Direct Influences of Attributes on Ranging Efficiency (Damage and Accuracy)

| Might - none |
| Matter - none |
| Toughness - none |
| Charm - none |
| Reaction - none |
| Perception - influences/determines the ranged Accuracy in low light |

| conditions |
| Rationality - indirectly contributes to the ranged Accuracy and |

| Damage by helping increase the Ranged skill a little |

| faster; also contribues by helping increae your |

| Overall level faster which means having access to new |

| Pick Points, to increase Perception (and other Cross- |

| Attributes possibly related to ranged efficiency...), |

| faster |
| Dexterity - ? |
| Ethereality - none |


temporary conclusions list above

original first post below



:) Greetings experienced Rangers!

I hope, based on your contributions, to have here put together a concise, definite and clear list of the direct influences of attributes on Ranging efficiency. I think it would be in the interest of all new players that choose Ranging over hand-to-hand Combat as a means to fight monsters; alone or in a party.

While advice is often available on chat channels and the current topic has been addressed in other posts on this forum, the newby can say at most that his or her choice is based on the opinion of this or that player or on similarities between the opinions of a few players. Please join and arrive at a conclusion! More than helping beginners like me, it could perhaps constitute an update to the in-game help, the attributes definitions of which seem to predate the implementation of the Ranging skill.

As you know, the demands of advancing in Ranging are rather high and they come down to a great expense of time. The perspective of developing a number of alts just to see the effects of 20 or more points in one attribute, and I have mainly Might, Perception and Dexterity in mind, takes on preposterous dimensions; further increased by the necessity of testing the effect of the Fatal Man and Body Piercing perks. The tests I could run with only 14 Pick Points (9 to start with + 5 from harvesting), for Fatal Man, Might and Dexterity effects, were inconclussive.

Please use abbreviations only accompanied by full descriptions of the game elements that you are reffering to, at least at first use! As a newby, I found it difficult to figure out what you were talking about in the forum, occasionally.

Below the following table, that would contain your results, I describe my views on the current topic, at the time of writting this post. They may help other newbys relate to it. I also hope to get their support for achieving the goal of this post. Please join me in asking the experienced players for help!

List of the Direct Influences of Attributes on Ranging Efficiency

| Might - |
| Matter - |
| Toughness - |
| Charm - |
| Reaction - |
| Perception - |
| Rationality - |
| Dexterity - |
| Ethereality - |


My thoughts on the influences of attributes on Ranging efficiency, at the time of writting this post:

1. I think only ranged Damage and ranged Chance-to-Hit could be relevant descriptors of Ranging efficiency; the Wilhelm Hood perk increases both of them.

2. The in-game help/encyclopedia sais that "Ranging is used to calculate your chance of hitting your opponent with arrows and bolts". Therefore it is similar to the Attack skill, not having anything to do with (ranged) Damage.

3. I wonder if Might could influence ranged Damage... I imagine that more strength would mean making more out of a bow, but the power of hitting would still be limited by the bow's capacity to project the arrow. Games like WoW use attributes as requirements for weapons that inflict damage and higher attributes allow the use of more damaging weapons. In EL, beyond the Elven Bow (with no prerequisites), the in-game help/encyclopedia lists nothing. Would my character's ranged damage be limited to the damage of the Elven Bow until the end of the game?

4. Dexterity may determine Attack, thus the chance to hit in hand-to-hand Combat, but could it also affect the ranged Chance-to-Hit? Does the Fatal Man perk help with Ranging?

5. There are hints on the developer's blog and on CEL, except the repeated recommendations on this forum, that Perception influences the ranged Chance-to-Hit; that making you "see better in low light conditions" implies a greater ranged Chance-to-Hit. Is this always true, or only in low light conditions as during the night or inside a cave? The Sharp Shooter perk, which increases Perception, seems, by name, dedicated to rangers...

6. (possibly not attributes-related:) Is Armor Piercing relevant to Ranging efficiency? Does the Body Piercing perk help with Ranging? I imagine that Armor Piercing should be independent of the means of hitting the opponent, from close or long range, and could increase the Chance-to-Hit. Is Armor Piercing equivalent to Dexterity or Perception?

7. My main character currently has the Elven Bow, the Wilhelm Hood, Ethereal Ranger and Sharp Shooter perks on, No Point in Basic Attributes and his Ranging is at 18 (from experience prior to a reset, in case you're wondering); he is using Training Arrows. One shot almost kills a Fox, while at least 3 shots are necessary to take down a Deer.

:) Thank you for your interest in this post and I hope that you would consider adding something from your knowledge!

Edited by wenyadur

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You forgot something in your chart, the skill "Ranging" itself. :)


A few answers (some can also be found in the Wiki: http://www.el-wiki.net/Ranging ):

re 1: Effective rangers have a ranging skill of at least 40 (prefered 50), the Ethereal Ranger Perk (saves ~42% of arrows)

and have Armor Piercing 60 (max). Those are the "requirements" most people have to meet to go to instances/invances

as ranger. IIRC with ranging 50 and closest distance you should never miss (at least during daytime).

re 3: Might doesn't influence ranging, but the skill itself does as well as it effects ranging accuracy.

Every 5 levels of ranging you gain +1 ranging damage and +1 ranging accuracy

re 5: Perception helps with ranging (a good indicator is the gain of XP for a shot, the lesser you get the easier the shot)

re 6: Body Piercing Perk doesn't help with ranging only with melee combat.


Hope that helps a bit

Edited by Raistlin

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:) Indeed it helps!

...somehow I arrived at a different page on el-wiki.net when choosing Ranging from the menu, one with an incomplete table (no ranged weapon damage) and no explanations...

If I understood correctly, Might has no effect on ranged Damage, new Ranging levels also bring an increase in ranged Damage and only Armor Piercing Potions apply the Armor Piercing bonus to ranged attacks.

While Perception may increase the ranged Chance-to-Hit, as indicated by a decrease in experience being proportional to the increase in Perception, what can be said about Dexterity? Is Dexterity limited to hand-to-hand Combat? Is Perception the equivalent of Dexterity for ranged atttacks? I imagine that one would need good 'perception' to focus on a target, but also good 'dexterity' to shoot straight...

About the table/list:

It was designed to contain only Cross Attributes so as to serve as a reference for investing Pick Points in Basic Attributes. ...Perhaps a note at the bottom of the table should inform on everything else (than Cross Attributes) that helps increase Ranging efficiency?

Based on the information received through the reply above, it seems that the list/table would associate at most 1 or 2 Cross Attributes with Ranging efficiency (Perception for sure and maybe Dexterity also?). Nevertheless I think it would still be useful to newbys, as it would leave no doubt about how they should invest their Pick Points.

:) Thank you so much, Wolf/Ratstlin!

I hope no one minds agreeing or disagreeing with him... Please, let us have a community based conclusion!

Edited by wenyadur

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...There seems to be one more thing that could have been deduced from the reply - Rationality, through the bonus in experience received, indirectly influences Ranging efficiency, by helping increase the Ranging skill a bit faster. But in this way Rationality is rather a factor in the economy of play, along side the Ethereal Ranger perk, than a direct determinant of each Arrow's success...

(It may be interesting to observe that other Cross Attributes determined by the Basic Attributes that give Perception and Rationality - Reaction and Matter - have a say on the Ranger's survival in close range until his party members rescue him/her. I don't know if he could heal himself repeatedly, so as to add Ethereality to the enumeration. If Dexterity doesn't influence the ranged Chance-to-Hit then it is not as useful in the same context. Charming may only be useful defensively, I assume, if the Ranger has summoned before engaging in the fight...)

Edited by wenyadur

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...so Perception increases your chance to hit "in low light conditions" (i.e. at night or in caves, when the target is sufficiently far from lighting sources) which translates to being able to hit more often at a longer distance in low light conditions (the farther the target, the lower the chance to hit).

(One way to look at the mechanism of Ranging is to assume that the Ranging Xp received increases with the distance to the target, not directly with the chance to hit, which means that you will be able to get more Xp by shooting at longer distances; because you have a higher chance to hit at longer distances in low light conditions due to a high Perception. That the Xp received varies with the distance to the target and not directly with the chance to hit is really just one point of view, a way to explain what happens. Perhaps more correct would be to say that the Xp received depends only on the chance to hit which decreases with the distance to the target multiplied by a factor determined by Perception - this factor would decrease when Perception increases, thus leading to an increase in the Xp received, at any range; but, again, I'm just guessing here - please ignore these last two phrases if they seem confusing.)

I was able to get as much as 55 Xp from one hit (probably a critical hit) while still at level 18 of Ranging (the complete setup is described at point 7 of "My thoughts..." in my first post). It is possible that the Sharp Shooter perk helped with this, even if my Perception was still at 4 at that time...

(For the newbys interested in Ranging, I would add that shooting at a long range has, even in low light conditions, a good chance to miss and so, you would profit more from shooting at a range that offers you most of the time 10 to 20 Xp / arrow. Also, if you manage to shoot a target that moves away from you, at any distance, the Xp received is greater.)

(I'm still in doubt about whether Dexterity influences the ranged Accuracy/Chance-to-Hit or not... I decided for a Reasoning based build, which implies increases in both Dexterity and Perception. But does an Instinct based build imply lower ranged Accuracy because of the lack of Dexterity?)

Edited by wenyadur

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