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Well, I believe that the truth of the matter is as dragburn was saying. It takes a certain amount of Faith to believe whatever you believe about who we are and where we come from. Neither Science nor any religion can provide ABSOLUTE proof.

 

So, I guess the question is weather you put your faith in Man and his ability to reason and such, or a higher being. As science is really only a by product of centuries of reasoning being built upon by each generation. You may also want to note that many of the well known first centruy scientiets were only using science to try and prove things in the bible. Some time ago that practice changed :icon13:

 

PS - I define faith as putting your belief in something un proven to you.

Edited by WizzKidd

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A couple of quick questions for atheists: If you personally believe in evolution and that mankind (who has the pleasure and capacity to ponder all of this) and all other forms of life came from it then where did the environment to support all of this come from?

Second question: If the answer of the first question i asked eventually leads back to a big bang or other universe forming event (it should but this is all so you can follow how i am rationalizing) then what was the cause of that event?

Third Q: in the case that antimatter/matter anihilation caused big bang or other universe forming event what created matter and antimatter or better yet what was the source of the energy required to set all of this into motion? (i know... bad pun...)

 

and remember as you require proof of a god or gods in order to start believing in such I also require proof of what your end result is as a theory is basically the same thing as a religion in that there is no concrete evidence and both function on faith.

 

Its more of a case of life came into being because of the enviroment not vice versa. The enviroment didnt adapt to suit life. life adapted and came into being to suit the enviroment.

Not a big fan of science either . Science is only based on what we know of the universe which is nothing.Who is to say life has to be carbon based ? .Isnt it possible that on differant worlds or perhaps on ours if the enviroment had been differant that sulphur or Hydrogen based lifeforms .Man and in particular Scientists are big fans of saying it can only be this way because thats all the knowledge we have.

On the Grand scale of the universe we proberly know about 0.0000000001% of things there is to know.

 

Does there have to be a cause for the event ? How about we are here Because it was one big fluke of nature .

In my opinion we are an accident we came about because certain chemicals came into contact with one another .If the chances of that happening are 1billion to 1 then counting the number of planets in the universe then they are not bad odds.

 

I have said before and will say again . Everyones beliefs are valid . Im an aethist but I would never tell anyone they are wrong for believing in something I dont.

 

Also I dont Believe we came about Because of a God/s ,I believe God cam about because we evolved(by luck) into an intelligent species with rational thought that created God/s to find our place in the grand scheme of things and to hope that when we die thats not the end of it.

my Belief is Religion in its many forms is based on and perpetuated by ppls fear of death

 

Edit: Kidberg that is so hypercritical of christainity

Edited by conavar

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A couple of quick questions for atheists: If you personally believe in evolution and that mankind (who has the pleasure and capacity to ponder all of this) and all other forms of life came from it then where did the environment to support all of this come from?

Second question: If the answer of the first question i asked eventually leads back to a big bang or other universe forming event (it should but this is all so you can follow how i am rationalizing) then what was the cause of that event?

Third Q: in the case that antimatter/matter anihilation caused big bang or other universe forming event what created matter and antimatter or better yet what was the source of the energy required to set all of this into motion? (i know... bad pun...)

 

and remember as you require proof of a god or gods in order to start believing in such I also require proof of what your end result is as a theory is basically the same thing as a religion in that there is no concrete evidence and both function on faith.

 

Its more of a case of life came into being because of the enviroment not vice versa. The enviroment didnt adapt to suit life. life adapted and came into being to suit the enviroment.

Not a big fan of science either . Science is only based on what we know of the universe which is nothing.Who is to say life has to be carbon based ? .Isnt it possible that on differant worlds or perhaps on ours if the enviroment had been differant that sulphur or Hydrogen based lifeforms .Man and in particular Scientists are big fans of saying it can only be this way because thats all the knowledge we have.

On the Grand scale of the universe we proberly know about 0.0000000001% of things there is to know.

 

Does there have to be a cause for the event ? How about we are here Because it was one big fluke of nature .

In my opinion we are an accident we came about because certain chemicals came into contact with one another .If the chances of that happening are 1billion to 1 then counting the number of planets in the universe then they are not bad odds.

 

I have said before and will say again . Everyones beliefs are valid . Im an aethist but I would never tell anyone they are wrong for believing in something I dont.

 

 

 

Edit: Kidberg that is so hypercritical of christainity

Im sorry but I dont know how anyone could believe that we are an accident with how complex just our bodies are. For the idk how many nerves we have...the complexion of the heart and other major organs, the brain, the movement we have...ect. How in the world can THAT be an accident?

 

How is that hypercritical?

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A couple of quick questions for atheists: If you personally believe in evolution and that mankind (who has the pleasure and capacity to ponder all of this) and all other forms of life came from it then where did the environment to support all of this come from?

Second question: If the answer of the first question i asked eventually leads back to a big bang or other universe forming event (it should but this is all so you can follow how i am rationalizing) then what was the cause of that event?

Third Q: in the case that antimatter/matter anihilation caused big bang or other universe forming event what created matter and antimatter or better yet what was the source of the energy required to set all of this into motion? (i know... bad pun...)

 

and remember as you require proof of a god or gods in order to start believing in such I also require proof of what your end result is as a theory is basically the same thing as a religion in that there is no concrete evidence and both function on faith.

 

Its more of a case of life came into being because of the enviroment not vice versa. The enviroment didnt adapt to suit life. life adapted and came into being to suit the enviroment.

Not a big fan of science either . Science is only based on what we know of the universe which is nothing.Who is to say life has to be carbon based ? .Isnt it possible that on differant worlds or perhaps on ours if the enviroment had been differant that sulphur or Hydrogen based lifeforms .Man and in particular Scientists are big fans of saying it can only be this way because thats all the knowledge we have.

On the Grand scale of the universe we proberly know about 0.0000000001% of things there is to know.

 

Does there have to be a cause for the event ? How about we are here Because it was one big fluke of nature .

In my opinion we are an accident we came about because certain chemicals came into contact with one another .If the chances of that happening are 1billion to 1 then counting the number of planets in the universe then they are not bad odds.

 

I have said before and will say again . Everyones beliefs are valid . Im an aethist but I would never tell anyone they are wrong for believing in something I dont.

 

 

 

Edit: Kidberg that is so hypercritical of christainity

 

didnt really mean that the environment adapted to us. I used the word support as almost anyone who has taken highschool level biology or even hunter safety course has heard of carrying capacity of an environment. usually it is defined as the environment has enough resources to support X creature. basically i was trying to use the most relatable term.

my oppinion on us coming about as one big accident is this: while it has a possibility of occuring and with rather high probability the problem and question of reaction energy still remains.

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Im sorry but I dont know how anyone could believe that we are an accident with how complex just our bodies are. For the idk how many nerves we have...the complexion of the heart and other major organs, the brain, the movement we have...ect. How in the world can THAT be an accident?

 

How is that hypercritical?

 

Not your views that are hypercritical but christianitys that there is only there god and all other Religions are False.

 

Im would like to know do other faiths believe the same muslims / hindus etc ?

 

Also Do the Christians among us feel the Church is a good representative of there faith or is it the worst thing that has happened to Religion.

( I ask that as the Church Not Christainity as a faith has been responsible for a massive amount of bloodloss and deaths over the centurys ie: crusades. )

Edited by conavar

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Im sorry but I dont know how anyone could believe that we are an accident with how complex just our bodies are. For the idk how many nerves we have...the complexion of the heart and other major organs, the brain, the movement we have...ect. How in the world can THAT be an accident?

 

How is that hypercritical?

 

Not your views that are hypercritical but christianitys that there is only there god and all other Religions are False.

 

Im would like to know do other faiths believe the same muslims / hindus etc ?

If I'm not mistaking...other monotheistic religions believe the same way...that there is their god and thats it. They believe in no other gods but their god. We believe in what we say is the ONLY God...and i truly believe that. I believe there is only one God and that is the God I serve and will continue to serve until my time is up on this earth. The good thing is that when my time is up here...ill be headed to somewere much much much better. I cant wait for that day but until then God has put me here to do a work for Him.

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I'm not a very good debater, but I'll try to answer the original poster's question, and also respond to Conavar.

 

I believe in God, the Christian God of the Bible. Here's why:

 

I grew up in a Christian family but didn't really "get it" when I was younger. Sure, I would tell you that I believed in God and even went to church a lot. But I spent most of my young adult life trying to ignore the reality of it all. It wasn't until I was about 21 that a bunch of crappy stuff happened all at once in my life, until finally I had no where else to turn except to God in prayer. One desperate night I literally dusted off my Bible and started reading. At first I read only the passages about were the ones that spoke about God's judgement on sin. Not exactly comforting. At first it made me feel worse. But for some reason I kept reading and began to read about Jesus and his death on sinner's behalf. I found a comfort there that was incredible--bigger that any of the "crappy stuff" that was going on in my life. Since then I have delved into a relationship with God through Jesus (such as WizzKidd describes above) that trancends my own understanding. No, he doesn't "talk" to me, but I kind of feel his voice in my soul when I pray. I learn more about him by reading the Bible.

 

So because of that I am convinced that there is a God and he is the God of the Bible. As I read the Bible and learn more and more about God I am able to see just how insecapable his truths are. No, I'm not some blind follower of Pat Robertson and the Christian Right (I wish Pat would shut up, he makes us look bad). I've had some pretty serious doubts over the years. But God always leads me back to him. He won't let me go.

 

Now, to try to address Conovar's question. Yes, it does seem "hypocritical" of Christianity to say that it is right and all other religions are wrong. But Jesus himself said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one come to the Father except by me." You see this leaves us with three basic choices.

 

either:

1) Jesus was right, there is no way to God except by him. Christianity is the only way to God.

2) Jesus was wrong and he was a nutcase or a liar for saying this.

3) Jesus never said this, this statement was invented by evil men who wanted to create an uber-religion.

 

 

the problem with #2 is, read all of the other things that Jesus said...was he a nutcase? or a liar? He spoke about heavenly things, healed people, amazed the Jewish leaders of his day with his knowledge of the Jewish scriptures. Even people who don't believe that Jewus is God usually agree that he was a "good person". What kind of "good person" could say this unless it was true.

 

The problem with #3 is, this statement is in the very earliest manuscripts of the Bible. If it was made up, it was made up by someone who probably died defending their faith. Would you die for something you made up? Also, when you look at the things the Bible teaches about--truth, honor, righteousness, goodness, etc...how could someone who wrote about trust make such a terrible lie up?

 

So that is the short answer for why I am convinced that Christianity is true.

 

Respectfully,

 

Solorni

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Im sorry but I dont know how anyone could believe that we are an accident with how complex just our bodies are. For the idk how many nerves we have...the complexion of the heart and other major organs, the brain, the movement we have...ect. How in the world can THAT be an accident?

 

How is that hypercritical?

 

Not your views that are hypercritical but christianitys that there is only there god and all other Religions are False.

 

Im would like to know do other faiths believe the same muslims / hindus etc ?

 

Also Do the Christians among us feel the Church is a good representative of there faith or is it the worst thing that has happened to Religion.

( I ask that as the Church Not Christainity as a faith has been responsible for a massive amount of bloodloss and deaths over the centurys ie: crusades. )

IMO....No the church isnt representing Christianity as it should be. The church is looking too much of what us believers call "the world" (or non believers) in what we do...we arent representing the name of Jesus Christ as we should. Dont get me wrong...im not perfect and I often mislead people with my actions and I ask God's forgivenes for that.

 

With the crusades and things...im not sure about. I believe that God has opened our eyes up with alot of events that have happened lately to make us realize that we need to concentrate more on Him before He returns. Thats just my opinion.

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Conavar,

 

I think the church at large has been a terrible advertisement for Christianity. I can think of two reason for this, off the top of my head...

 

1) Christians are sinners, saved only by grace. We still mess up, a lot. Yes, one of the goals of the Christian life is to be made more holy...but it takes time and no one will be perfect in this life. I also think that Satan is really against the chruch and tries to tempt Christians to do stupid things so the chruch looks bad.

 

2) Not everyone who calls themselves Christian is a Christian. Like I said in my above post, for the first 21 years of my life I would have sworn to you up and down that I was a christian but I was not. Imagine a whole group of people like that. They could do a lot of damage to Christianity's PR.

 

:icon13:

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Conavar,

 

I think the church at large has been a terrible advertisement for Christianity. I can think of two reason for this, off the top of my head...

 

1) Christians are sinners, saved only by grace. We still mess up, a lot. Yes, one of the goals of the Christian life is to be made more holy...but it takes time and no one will be perfect in this life. I also think that Satan is really against the chruch and tries to tempt Christians to do stupid things so the chruch looks bad.

 

2) Not everyone who calls themselves Christian is a Christian. Like I said in my above post, for the first 21 years of my life I would have sworn to you up and down that I was a christian but I was not. Imagine a whole group of people like that. They could do a lot of damage to Christianity's PR.

 

:icon13:

Couldnt have said it better myself Solorni. And I had the same experience you had but at a younger age. I thought I recieved Jesus at the age of 9 but I didnt truly recieve Him until I was 13 while I was on a mission trip with my youth group. God opened up my eyes that I wasnt saved and He saved me at 2 AM in the morning! It was awesome and God has worked in my life ever since. He has helped me through the rough times and is doing so now with RL problems I'm going through. I rely on God alone to help me through my situations and He has been there everytime. God has worked many ways to help me through and has done it everytime and I thank Him for it.

 

Kid

Edited by Kidberg7

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Thanx Solorni

 

That was the kind of answer i was looking for when i posted this topic .There honest views with out the bible bashing.

 

To answer your post .As an aethist and not believing in God if you have found comfort in your beliefs isnt that the real answer.They may not be a god but you have found yours in your own faith . So having Faith and Believing in God is your god if you understand what im saying.

 

Thanx again

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Conavar,

 

Making our own gods is not the real answer IF there is a singular God who wrote the bible. He speaks very strongly against such actions and beliefs. He also states his case very strongly about eternity and where our choices will lead.

 

I know you said that religion was invented to get us to fear death (or however you put it) but IF the Christian god is God, then there is fear to be had about the subject if you have not accepted the forgiveness Jesus freely offers.

 

Bahh ^^ I so didnt want to go there.. forgive my forwardness, I just have a hard time letting people believe things I believe to be false which will lead to destruction. It's only because I care that I even bothered.

Edited by WizzKidd

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I'm not a very good debater, but I'll try to answer the original poster's question, and also respond to Conavar.

 

I believe in God, the Christian God of the Bible. Here's why:

 

I grew up in a Christian family but didn't really "get it" when I was younger. Sure, I would tell you that I believed in God and even went to church a lot. But I spent most of my young adult life trying to ignore the reality of it all. It wasn't until I was about 21 that a bunch of crappy stuff happened all at once in my life, until finally I had no where else to turn except to God in prayer. One desperate night I literally dusted off my Bible and started reading. At first I read only the passages about were the ones that spoke about God's judgement on sin. Not exactly comforting. At first it made me feel worse. But for some reason I kept reading and began to read about Jesus and his death on sinner's behalf. I found a comfort there that was incredible--bigger that any of the "crappy stuff" that was going on in my life. Since then I have delved into a relationship with God through Jesus (such as WizzKidd describes above) that trancends my own understanding. No, he doesn't "talk" to me, but I kind of feel his voice in my soul when I pray. I learn more about him by reading the Bible.

 

So because of that I am convinced that there is a God and he is the God of the Bible. As I read the Bible and learn more and more about God I am able to see just how insecapable his truths are. No, I'm not some blind follower of Pat Robertson and the Christian Right (I wish Pat would shut up, he makes us look bad). I've had some pretty serious doubts over the years. But God always leads me back to him. He won't let me go.

 

Now, to try to address Conovar's question. Yes, it does seem "hypocritical" of Christianity to say that it is right and all other religions are wrong. But Jesus himself said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one come to the Father except by me." You see this leaves us with three basic choices.

 

either:

1) Jesus was right, there is no way to God except by him. Christianity is the only way to God.

2) Jesus was wrong and he was a nutcase or a liar for saying this.

3) Jesus never said this, this statement was invented by evil men who wanted to create an uber-religion.

 

 

the problem with #2 is, read all of the other things that Jesus said...was he a nutcase? or a liar? He spoke about heavenly things, healed people, amazed the Jewish leaders of his day with his knowledge of the Jewish scriptures. Even people who don't believe that Jewus is God usually agree that he was a "good person". What kind of "good person" could say this unless it was true.

 

The problem with #3 is, this statement is in the very earliest manuscripts of the Bible. If it was made up, it was made up by someone who probably died defending their faith. Would you die for something you made up? Also, when you look at the things the Bible teaches about--truth, honor, righteousness, goodness, etc...how could someone who wrote about trust make such a terrible lie up?

 

So that is the short answer for why I am convinced that Christianity is true.

 

Respectfully,

 

Solorni

Unfortunatly what i have to say about #3 might come off as a little a**holish. Please take no offence.

Have you ever heard of emperor Constantine "The Great"? a few years after christianity began to pick up steam Constantine gathered almost anyone and everyone who was a major leader or "prophet" of an offshoot of judaism and held a conference. In this conference scrolls from almost every branch were submitted to be in the bible. There was one problem though. The divinity of Christ. was he really the son of god or was he a great prophet who died a martyr? They took a vote and decided that he was infact devine. But what of the scrolls and gospels that disagreed with this? of course they were barred from entering the bible. many were even burned. some have survived like the dead sea scrolls and the gospel of mary (the gospel of mary is not very widely known about and is very difficult to find if you wanted to read it).

Now here is a very interesting fact: Constantine was pagan up untill a few days before his death. basically he was betting on a winning religion and more or less wanted to stay in power a little bit longer...

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Conavar,

 

Making our own gods is not the real answer IF there is a singular God who wrote the bible. He speaks very strongly against such actions and beliefs. He also states his case very strongly about eternity and where our choices will lead.

 

I know you said that religion was invented to get us to fear death (or however you put it) but IF the Christian god is God, then there is fear to be had about the subject if you have not accepted the forgiveness Jesus freely offers.

 

Bahh ^^ I so didnt want to go there.. forgive my forwardness, I just have a hard time letting people believe things I believe to be false which will lead to destruction. It's only because I care that I even bothered.

 

Sorry proberly me not making myself clear.

 

I ment in having faith and belief and having found comfort in them beliefs isnt that the answer wether there is a god or not. Them beliefs become the god offering ppl comfort etc .

 

I dont believe religion was invented to make us for death but was made because we do.If religion hadnt offered an afterlife then doudt it would have flourished at all

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I'm not a very good debater, but I'll try to answer the original poster's question, and also respond to Conavar.

 

I believe in God, the Christian God of the Bible. Here's why:

 

I grew up in a Christian family but didn't really "get it" when I was younger. Sure, I would tell you that I believed in God and even went to church a lot. But I spent most of my young adult life trying to ignore the reality of it all. It wasn't until I was about 21 that a bunch of crappy stuff happened all at once in my life, until finally I had no where else to turn except to God in prayer. One desperate night I literally dusted off my Bible and started reading. At first I read only the passages about were the ones that spoke about God's judgement on sin. Not exactly comforting. At first it made me feel worse. But for some reason I kept reading and began to read about Jesus and his death on sinner's behalf. I found a comfort there that was incredible--bigger that any of the "crappy stuff" that was going on in my life. Since then I have delved into a relationship with God through Jesus (such as WizzKidd describes above) that trancends my own understanding. No, he doesn't "talk" to me, but I kind of feel his voice in my soul when I pray. I learn more about him by reading the Bible.

 

So because of that I am convinced that there is a God and he is the God of the Bible. As I read the Bible and learn more and more about God I am able to see just how insecapable his truths are. No, I'm not some blind follower of Pat Robertson and the Christian Right (I wish Pat would shut up, he makes us look bad). I've had some pretty serious doubts over the years. But God always leads me back to him. He won't let me go.

 

Now, to try to address Conovar's question. Yes, it does seem "hypocritical" of Christianity to say that it is right and all other religions are wrong. But Jesus himself said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one come to the Father except by me." You see this leaves us with three basic choices.

 

either:

1) Jesus was right, there is no way to God except by him. Christianity is the only way to God.

2) Jesus was wrong and he was a nutcase or a liar for saying this.

3) Jesus never said this, this statement was invented by evil men who wanted to create an uber-religion.

 

 

the problem with #2 is, read all of the other things that Jesus said...was he a nutcase? or a liar? He spoke about heavenly things, healed people, amazed the Jewish leaders of his day with his knowledge of the Jewish scriptures. Even people who don't believe that Jewus is God usually agree that he was a "good person". What kind of "good person" could say this unless it was true.

 

The problem with #3 is, this statement is in the very earliest manuscripts of the Bible. If it was made up, it was made up by someone who probably died defending their faith. Would you die for something you made up? Also, when you look at the things the Bible teaches about--truth, honor, righteousness, goodness, etc...how could someone who wrote about trust make such a terrible lie up?

 

So that is the short answer for why I am convinced that Christianity is true.

 

Respectfully,

 

Solorni

Unfortunatly what i have to say about #3 might come off as a little a**holish. Please take no offence.

Have you ever heard of emperor Constantine "The Great"? a few years after christianity began to pick up steam Constantine gathered almost anyone and everyone who was a major leader or "prophet" of an offshoot of judaism and held a conference. In this conference scrolls from almost every branch were submitted to be in the bible. There was one problem though. The divinity of Christ. was he really the son of god or was he a great prophet who died a martyr? They took a vote and decided that he was infact devine. But what of the scrolls and gospels that disagreed with this? of course they were barred from entering the bible. many were even burned. some have survived like the dead sea scrolls and the gospel of mary (the gospel of mary is not very widely known about and is very difficult to find if you wanted to read it).

Now here is a very interesting fact: Constantine was pagan up untill a few days before his death. basically he was betting on a winning religion and more or less wanted to stay in power a little bit longer...

 

No offense taken at all.

 

I've never heard this story before...I'll look it up and get back to you. I've read a lot about the COuncil of Trent and a few other councils where they decided what was scripture and what was not, but they were much later than Constantine. AFAIK the dead sea scrolls have much of the 4 gospels contained in them, includeding the Jesus quote "I am the way.." but I'll double check that, and get back to you some other tiem.

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Unfortunatly what i have to say about #3 might come off as a little a**holish. Please take no offence.

Have you ever heard of emperor Constantine "The Great"? a few years after christianity began to pick up steam Constantine gathered almost anyone and everyone who was a major leader or "prophet" of an offshoot of judaism and held a conference. In this conference scrolls from almost every branch were submitted to be in the bible. There was one problem though. The divinity of Christ. was he really the son of god or was he a great prophet who died a martyr? They took a vote and decided that he was infact devine. But what of the scrolls and gospels that disagreed with this? of course they were barred from entering the bible. many were even burned. some have survived like the dead sea scrolls and the gospel of mary (the gospel of mary is not very widely known about and is very difficult to find if you wanted to read it).

Now here is a very interesting fact: Constantine was pagan up untill a few days before his death. basically he was betting on a winning religion and more or less wanted to stay in power a little bit longer...

 

Fare point and the reason I dont like peope quoting the bible i would rather hear there own views.

 

should think most ppl have heard the saying " History is written by the victors" its the same for the bible . very one sided and biased and has also changed the meaning of words to suit its own ends

 

Example.

 

Satan:

 

The Christian Anti-God ,otherwise known as the Devil. "SATAN" is a Hebrew word meaning "Adversary",the term is used in the old Testament as a trivial noun except in JOB (where there is no textual implication that Satan is EVIL )

LUCIFER:

 

"light-bearer in latin" . The name appears in ISAIAH 14:12 -" How art thou Fallen from heaven,O lucifer,son of the morning" - as a translation of the Hebrew Hillel ( "light-bringer" ) and the misinterpretation of this passage resulted in Lucifer being added to the list of names associated with the Devil

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I'm not a very good debater, but I'll try to answer the original poster's question, and also respond to Conavar.

 

I believe in God, the Christian God of the Bible. Here's why:

 

I grew up in a Christian family but didn't really "get it" when I was younger. Sure, I would tell you that I believed in God and even went to church a lot. But I spent most of my young adult life trying to ignore the reality of it all. It wasn't until I was about 21 that a bunch of crappy stuff happened all at once in my life, until finally I had no where else to turn except to God in prayer. One desperate night I literally dusted off my Bible and started reading. At first I read only the passages about were the ones that spoke about God's judgement on sin. Not exactly comforting. At first it made me feel worse. But for some reason I kept reading and began to read about Jesus and his death on sinner's behalf. I found a comfort there that was incredible--bigger that any of the "crappy stuff" that was going on in my life. Since then I have delved into a relationship with God through Jesus (such as WizzKidd describes above) that trancends my own understanding. No, he doesn't "talk" to me, but I kind of feel his voice in my soul when I pray. I learn more about him by reading the Bible.

 

So because of that I am convinced that there is a God and he is the God of the Bible. As I read the Bible and learn more and more about God I am able to see just how insecapable his truths are. No, I'm not some blind follower of Pat Robertson and the Christian Right (I wish Pat would shut up, he makes us look bad). I've had some pretty serious doubts over the years. But God always leads me back to him. He won't let me go.

 

Now, to try to address Conovar's question. Yes, it does seem "hypocritical" of Christianity to say that it is right and all other religions are wrong. But Jesus himself said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one come to the Father except by me." You see this leaves us with three basic choices.

 

either:

1) Jesus was right, there is no way to God except by him. Christianity is the only way to God.

2) Jesus was wrong and he was a nutcase or a liar for saying this.

3) Jesus never said this, this statement was invented by evil men who wanted to create an uber-religion.

 

 

the problem with #2 is, read all of the other things that Jesus said...was he a nutcase? or a liar? He spoke about heavenly things, healed people, amazed the Jewish leaders of his day with his knowledge of the Jewish scriptures. Even people who don't believe that Jewus is God usually agree that he was a "good person". What kind of "good person" could say this unless it was true.

 

The problem with #3 is, this statement is in the very earliest manuscripts of the Bible. If it was made up, it was made up by someone who probably died defending their faith. Would you die for something you made up? Also, when you look at the things the Bible teaches about--truth, honor, righteousness, goodness, etc...how could someone who wrote about trust make such a terrible lie up?

 

So that is the short answer for why I am convinced that Christianity is true.

 

Respectfully,

 

Solorni

Unfortunatly what i have to say about #3 might come off as a little a**holish. Please take no offence.

Have you ever heard of emperor Constantine "The Great"? a few years after christianity began to pick up steam Constantine gathered almost anyone and everyone who was a major leader or "prophet" of an offshoot of judaism and held a conference. In this conference scrolls from almost every branch were submitted to be in the bible. There was one problem though. The divinity of Christ. was he really the son of god or was he a great prophet who died a martyr? They took a vote and decided that he was infact devine. But what of the scrolls and gospels that disagreed with this? of course they were barred from entering the bible. many were even burned. some have survived like the dead sea scrolls and the gospel of mary (the gospel of mary is not very widely known about and is very difficult to find if you wanted to read it).

Now here is a very interesting fact: Constantine was pagan up untill a few days before his death. basically he was betting on a winning religion and more or less wanted to stay in power a little bit longer...

Ok...God said in the old testament that His word would always stay true and He would keep it protected to be His word.

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Ok, I got this from a Christian website...I tried to find a neutral one but a quick search with "Constantine Bible" yielded only Christian sites. If you could find a better source I'd love to see it. I read on another site about the tearing up of scrolls--this was done to the legal documents of those who insisted that Christ was a creation, by those who insisted he was God. They were not historical documents, just their opinion peices. I guess that's where the burning of alternative quciptures story comes from.

 

The question “How did Constantine alter the Bible?” has become popular since the release of The Da Vinci Code. The book reads, “The fundamental irony of Christianity! The Bible, as we know it today, was collated by the pagan Roman emperor Constantine the Great."1

 

Is this true? Did Constantine alter the Bible? No, Constantine did not form or collate the Bible. In 306 AD, Constantine (274 – 337 AD) became ruler of the Roman Empire. He gained his fame for becoming the single ruler of the Roman Empire (after he deceived and defeated Licinius) before supposedly converting to Christianity (his conversion is debatable).

 

In 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea, which was the first general conference of the Christian church. Constantine had virtually nothing to do with the forming of the canon and it was not even discussed at Nicea. Instead, the council that formed decisions about the canon took place in 397 in Cathage. This was 60 years after Constantine’s death.

 

It is important to note that 21 books were acknowledged by Christians long before Constantine. In AD 330, Constantine did finance the copying of 50 Christian Scriptures. However, this was not a new Bible, and he did not omit any of the already accepted books.

Edited by solorni

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Conavar,

 

I don't understand your point about the definitions of Satan and Lucifer there... could you expand it for me? Thanks. ( I don't agree with the definitions there, either, based on the texts listed there. But that's a different debate.)

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THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE KING JAMES VERSION

From the birth of Christ to 100 A.D. the original manuscripts were written in the Greek language.

The New Testament was compiled by 400 A.D.

by 170 A.D. -- 20 N.T. books had been accepted by the early Christians.

 

by 400 A.D. -- all 27 books of the N.T. had been accepted by the early Christians as they were guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

The Holy Spirit guided so that only the genuine books were included.

 

The Holy Spirit also guided in the selection of the pure manuscripts.

 

The Holy Spirit so guided that false gospels and manuscripts were set aside.

the original manuscripts were lost but the Received Text that was produced during this time was a faithful reproduction of the original autographs.

 

 

452-1453 A.D. -- The Textus Receptus was used by the Greek Church during this time under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

 

1516 A.D. -- Erasmus edited the first printing of the Greek N.T.

 

This was in agreement with the Textus Receptus.

 

 

1526 A.D. -- Tyndale's New Testament in English was printed. He was burned at the stake in 1536 because he had the Bible printed in English.

 

1550 A.D. -- Stephens Greek N.T. (Textus Receptus).

 

1611 A.D. -- The King James or Authorised Version of the Bible was translated from the Greek Textus Receptus in the N.T. and Hebrew Masoretic Text in the O.T.

 

1611 A.D. -- To the present. Infidels and assorted enemies of the Bible have attacked our Bible in every way known to man, but God's Word shall abide forever.

THE CORRUPT FOUNDATION OF MODERN TRANSLATIONS

The "other Bibles" which are so prevalent today are as dependable as quicksand. They will vary even from printing to printing as the constantly changing whims of man directs. However, each new Bible will continue down the same path of confusion and error. You cannot produce good fruit from a rotten tree.

 

THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE "OTHER BIBLES"

From the birth of Christ to 400 A.D. False prophets wrote polluted gospels and other books of the Bible at the same time that the true books of the New Testament were being written. Paul makes mention of this in 2 Cor. 2:17, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the Word of God .... "Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit these tainted manuscripts were cast aside and were not included in the Textus Receptus.

 

331 A.D. Constantine ordered that an "ecumenical Bible" be written that would be accepable to every stripe of Christian that was under his jurisdiction. A man by the name of Eusebius was assigned to direct this undertaking. Eusebius was a follower of Origen who rejected the deity of Christ. He claimed that Christ was a created being. The Jehovah's Witnesses of today believe the same thing. This error is called the Arian heresy.

 

 

1481 A.D. The Vatican manuscript was discovered in the Vatican Library. This is a corrupted manuscript which repeatedly casts aside the deity of Christ. It reflects the Arianism of Origen and is thought by some to be one of the surviving manuscripts done be Euscbius at the command of Constantine. The date of its writing coincides with the "ecumenical Bible" of Constantine.

 

1844 A.D. The Sinaitic manuscript was discovered at Mt. Sinai in the monastery of Saint Catherine. It agrees closely with the Vatican manuscript and minimises the deity of Christ and is Arian in nature. It is safe to suggest that these two manuscripts were two of the fifty that were written for Constantine.

 

1881 A.D. The Westcott and Hort Greek Text was introduced. This text departed from the Textus Receptus and follows the Vatican and Sinaitic corruptions. Most scholars from every spectrum of Christianity have knowingly or otherwise promoted the Westcott and Hort text from that time to the present.

The Jehovah's Witness Bible entitled the "New World Translation of the Scriptures" was translated from the text of Westcott and Hort. Their friendship with Westcott and Hort is not surprising. They reject the deity of Christ and gain strength from this corrupt text.

 

Most, if not all, of the modern translations of the Bible follow the path of the two worst manuscripts which are in existence. They almost seem to loathe the Textus Receptus. This is evidenced by the fact that most Bible colleges, seminaries and schools use some Greek text other than the Textus Receptus. Nevertheless, the new versions are founded on faulty texts and are not acceptable for any purpose.

 

Hope that helps Solorni

 

 

 

solorni Posted Today, 01:47 AM

Conavar,

I don't understand your point about the definitions of Satan and Lucifer there... could you expand it for me? Thanks. ( I don't agree with the definitions there, either, based on the texts listed there. But that's a different debate.)

 

 

My point was that quoting any Religious txt is Wrong as over the years they have been changed and adapted to suit the aims of the church

Edited by conavar

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Ok I took the wrong approuch when stating what I believed. I am sorry for that. And I dont mean that humans brains are SO more advanced then animals. I meant we dont think the same way animals do. You may agree or disagree on this. But I've never seen a ant mourn, have you? I've seen hundreds of people mourn. I'm saying animals dont choose, the go with whats in their instuncts. We have to choose every singal day of our lives. I hope this didnt come on to think as my other posts did. This is what I believe, if you think I'm wrong and you believe a different way. If you think that path is the true one, then follow that path to the end. As for what I believe if you look at all my posts, and get rid of all my blabbering you can see what I believe in. And for tho'se who dont know what to believe, I hope, and pray yall find the path to true happness. Weither that be believing in God or not. Good luck on your journy

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Being and Aethist myself I just wondered what other EL players views are on Religion (Christian.Muslim etc)

 

Are you a believer and if so why .

 

or

 

Do you think it is total BS.

 

Has something happened in your life to change your views from one to the other ?

 

Have you recieved enlightenment through some event or has something made you disbelieve

 

Do you think religion is the biggest causer of trouble in the world today or do you think it could be mankinds saving grace.

 

 

Post Any views Plz

 

 

 

In my opinion you didnt take the wrong approach Gandalf ,you commented on your beliefs which is your right to do so and the whole point of this post..

Edited by conavar

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for what gandalf was saying, every animal has the free will too do what they want, but they don't. ants were disciplined so that they rebuild now, mourn later. its just like saying dogs don't have a choice too walk you to school. i am indian so i follow the ways of the great spirit, and believe that there is a higher place in life than humans. the way your saying, no offense too anyone, is that your are arrogant because you believe that humans are the highest there is in smarts. again, no offense, but you cam on a bit thick. i also don't believe that if you do something wrong in life you get eternal punishment, because in all reality, what kind of father would do that? this will be my first and last post, but I will read through but dont expect a reply

 

I would like to explain my take on this. I never said animals have free wills. If you meant they do have free wills ok. But I must explain what I think about this without fussing about it.

 

I dont believe animals have free wills. I've never seen a any mourn right after the any hills torn down, or after words. As for a dog following you to school, your his owner, you feed him, you take care of him. Without you he couldn't servive. He follows you because he has the instunct to protect and follow you. Have someone try and act like their hurting you. If the dog thinks his/shis really trying to hurt you he will protect you. thats what I believe on the subject

 

 

As what I think kidberg said, I've studied probibly to much. has there ever been something you just cant explain? Or how about ask your self this questions. Why arent other animals building huge things like we are, Why arent other animals more like us? I believe what I believe. Its hard for alot of people to have faith, To believe without seeing. Its one of the hardest things. How can you believe in something if you cant see it? All I can say is have faith that its there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of this is what I believe, but I cant, and wont change what I believe to make people happy. And I hope you wont either. If you believe in something, you should stick to it. But the trick is finding what you trully believe in.

 

If you take this as I'm a thick headed moron, than Ok.

 

 

 

Well this will be my last post on here.

 

My final word is, I hope yall find what makes yall happy.

 

 

P.S. if yall have anythign to say about this post, please post here and I will read it or PM me

Edited by Gandalf2

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Mora Here !!

 

Reading everything that was said before, I believe speak the truth of our Savior and His love for us . I am not a young man having studied Gods word for some 40 years now. And if I had the words to say to convince anyone that doesn't believe in God and his grace throught faith in His Son and the gift that is free to any that would receive it by faith, in His Son (eternal life) in Christ I would. This is left up to each of us to receive or not. The bible is a good way to start yet many will tell you that the bible is man made. I myself believe that it is true in every reguard. A interesting thing about the bible is its prophecy. Look at it and see how much of it has come true. But once again anything I say to prove or disprove is not going to change weather you believe or not. Gods word tells us if you seek you shall fine and if you have a open honest heart you will receive. So I am not going to debate with any here but to say this. God loves you and if you look for that love you will receive it. If you want to seek for it, look for it in the life and times of our Savior Christ Jesus our Lord. I pray that to any who might seek for God that you will receive from God His Son

 

Grace and Peace In our Savior

Christ Jesus

 

Mora Out !!

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