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Gryflet

OMFG, Not EL related but quite an issue.

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EU donates more money by the government.  US donates more privately.  I don't see the importance in this.

202035[/snapback]

This came up over a point I tried to make.

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america is one of the few places that turn down big offers of help, like lotsa cash,

 

America accepted cash help from any nation for help unless that offer was at an extreem cost, (ie don't look next time we abuse human rites, get your nose out of the country we want to invade, etc) so to those we said no.

 

 

sending people over (emergency service type people, I mean), etc. that's where the arrogance is, "I'll help all these people, and I don't need help from anywhere else"

 

The people in the middle the problem were afraid of others getting hurt and causing a bigger incident than saying no would. With the people freaking out and shooting rescuers I can understand why.

 

I am not saying it was handled perfect by any means. I just wish people could be nice. Tomorow it could be your brother dead and then read all this.

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Jeez -_-

 

How about God bless these victims. No need in comparing this to that. These are human lives.

 

My heart goes out to all who suffer in any tragedies.

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Jeez  -_-

 

How about God bless these victims. No need in comparing this to that. These are human lives.

 

My heart goes out to all who suffer in any tragedies.

202144[/snapback]

 

 

 

AMEN !!

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America accepted cash help from any nation for help unless that offer was at an extreem cost, (ie don't look next time we abuse human rites, get your nose out of the country we want to invade, etc) so to those we said no.

 

202087[/snapback]

 

It doesn't seem to have problems with Putin and his "regulated democracy" experiments, though...

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My earlier comment was directed at Mireille - that no one cares attitude - check some facts once in awhile.  America is one of the most charitable countries out there, and it's not just "to our own".  When the tsunami hit, we were sending aid practically everywhere to help.  The thousands of people dying daily in Africa?  Maybe our government isn't just pouring money, but maybe then that's because we think of it as a personal matter - you donate or you don't; the government shouldn't tell you how or who you have to give your money too.  BTW, there are MANY relief agencies based out of the USA sending millions of privately donated dollars to help out in these areas.

 

So now it's America's turn - big whoop.  Granted, many governments have turned out with sympathy and donations, but does that really mean much with people who say, "Get over it"?

 

Granted, ttl, there is a certain arrogance to being an American - show me a developed country with no arrogance.  Doesn't mean when things go bad anywhere, we don't band together and help.

 

As for the hurricanes - there's a reason FEMA failed.  That, simply put, is because of the way our governments run here in America - the Federal government does not have full control in every matter.  The state and local governments have fought for years that it is THEY who will be in control of things no matter what, and they will invite FEMA in when they are overtaxed.  Unfortunately, in this case, FEMA was called in long after any viable means to get into the area were already washed away and impassable.  The locals erred, and then blamed the government - typical response in the United States of America - the states want full control, but want the federal government ready to bail them out at the drop of a pin.

 

I personally see Bush's admission of failure in Katrina, and the response Rita started to bring as a new sign in the USA - maybe the feds won't wait so long to take over, and we can have ONE organization handling multistate disasters - not several.

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do you even understand what you are supporting with that statement? if the federal government had as much power as you are saying it should have then we all would have personal id numbers tatooed on our foreheads. actually our government has too much power allready. also think about the leadership fema was under. on live television the president of fema was being interviewed about why they hadnt been able to do anything in the superdome incedent and his reply to that specific sentiment was that they did not know about the conditions in the super dome untill that very interview. the news media had been talking about the crisis nonstop for the 3 days before the interview. i just dont understand how you could say that the manegment of fema was screwed over by the state when obviosly the people working in fema dont have enough competance to turn on a goddamn tv set and watch and listen.

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This was my point - FEMA can't act until the states say yes. The states waited until everything hit the proverbial fan to do anything, THEN expected FEMA to be a magic wand. People don't work like that.

 

If there is anything good to say about anyone's response to Katrina - it's that Rita was better anticipated.

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they could have at least independantly monitered the situation so that when they were asked to come in and help they would know the situation enough to do some good instead of running around with their heads up their arses.

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they could have at least independantly monitered the situation so that when they were asked to come in and help they would know the situation enough to do some good instead of running around with their heads up their arses.

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No. I think that if they were standing there monitoring the situation, they would be accused of standing there and monitoring the situation while doing nothing. If someone wants to accuse something because of ideology (which is, as it seems to me, what you are doing), he will always find a good reason and do it anyway.

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No. I think that if they were standing there monitoring the situation, they would be accused of standing there and monitoring the situation while doing nothing. If someone wants to accuse something because of ideology (which is, as it seems to me, what you are doing), he will always find a good reason and do it anyway.

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Exactly - it was a lose-lose situation, no matter WHAT FEMA did, it would have been wrong. They waited, and took the blame for politicians who don't want to take the blame. Had they stood by, they would be accused of standing by while the disaster got out of hand - same thing as they got anyway. Had they moved in sooner, they would be accused of violating states' rights.

 

Politicians care nothing for lives - unless "caring" means "more votes".

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i say who cares about the blame game though.. as long as when they were asked to go in good came out of it they could say those reasons we stated for not acting sooner and give the explanation you just gave. the media just wants a story for higher ratings and in effect more money. so of course they will state things that you outlined. they dont give a shit about if any good was done since they are a culmination of the glass is half empty orginizations. and also those politicians dont have enough balls to stand up to the media. my father had to learn the hard way about that. he was running for the house of representatives and his own party (republican) screwed him over. all of the canidates were being interviewed by the party newspaper and when it became his turn the interviewer told him he could only answer yes or no. well problem was is that the questions demanded multi sylabic phrases to have any real answer. he protested and the interviewer insisted that those were the only answers he could give. the interview was then completed in this manner and then lo and behold in the paper there were his answers along with the other canidates long winded responses to the same questions.

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my father had to learn the hard way about that. he was running for the house of representatives and his own party (republican) screwed him over. all of the canidates were being interviewed by the party newspaper and when it became his turn the interviewer told him he could only answer yes or no. well problem was is that the questions demanded multi sylabic phrases to have any real answer. he protested and the interviewer insisted that those were the only answers he could give. the interview was then completed in this manner and then lo and behold in the paper there were his answers along with the other canidates long winded responses to the same questions.

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Your dad simply doesn't have enough strong friends in high positions in the party. It's like this in all parties in the world, even in non-democratic countries.

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The reason that hurricane katrina did as much damadge ad it did was because it was underestimated.Also the goverment KNEW it was coming but acted too late because as i stated before it was underestimated.What is ironic was that a few years ago i read in the GLOBE AND MAIL that the waterlocks needed to be reinforced.As most expensive improvements go..it wasnt passed.Also New Orleans is a very poor city, so it is hard to help these men and women back one thier feet.

Many of them didnt leave because they were waiting for their welfare bill.First they underreacted due to the goverments first beleifs then they overreacted.Also goverments and Empires need equal power.You cant give one form of goverment too much more power than anouther.If anything the state powers should have more power to help in these sitiuations.We should care for these people even thoug more people die daily that go unnoticed.Alas if every one thought like that nothing would happen.We all hear about massive events that go unspoken like the rwanden genocide but will you be cruel to those people?What would you do in Bushes shiny shoes?"who cares?more people die and its not known ,so ill just sit back".No offense but that sounds really selfish,cruel and pig headed.

 

Ps:the events in russia chesnya aint a war

 

Edit to all those who think big issues are never being talked about or helped?Take this!!!!!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../International/

Edited by sparhawk

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Spar - a couple things:

 

1.) Anyone who knew anything about hurricanes knew that what happened in New Orleans was bound to happen - In fact, I remember a top 5 worst possible hurricane disasters in the United States was shown on the Weather Channel about 10 years ago. BTW, also ranking high on the list were Key West and New York City.

 

2.) The states need more power - how do you get more power than all of the power in a given situation? As it is now, the US Federal government cannot do anything in a disaster until the states throw up their hands. IMO, New Orleans and Louisiana dropped the ball, and then called FEMA too late to help anything - then decided to use FEMA for a scapegoat. They knew it was coming, and they did nothing. They told people to get out and they weren't actually making sure anyone did...

 

Personally, were I a resident of New Orleans, I would be demanding the immediate resignation of the mayor, the governor, and pretty much every state and city official involved in this situation.

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yes in this situation the state government was wrong and incompetant but it doesnt mean give the fedral government enough power to overule the states in every matter. actually you know where the blame for it should fall? on the voters and the nonvocal ones whom had the oppurtunity to vote but didnt out of choice. it all boils down to no one (or very few at the least) was doing their job as a citezen of the states and knowing all of the critical information neccesary to make a good decision with their vote. the voters elected that stupid management and look what it got them...then again it also should be blamed on the media since they seem to be able to sway the people who dont want to do their duty and actually know who they are voting for.

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yes in this situation the state government was wrong and incompetant but it doesnt mean give the fedral government enough power to overule the states in every matter. actually you know where the blame for it should fall? on the voters and the nonvocal ones whom had the oppurtunity to vote but didnt out of choice. it all boils down to no one (or very few at the least) was doing their job as a citezen of the states and knowing all of the critical information neccesary to make a good decision with their vote. the voters elected that stupid management and look what it got them...then again it also should be blamed on the media since they seem to be able to sway the people who dont want to do their duty and actually know who they are voting for.

208519[/snapback]

Exactly.

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Id like to call it Civil strife.For chechnya is a state of russia,and they have not openly declared war on russia.Alas it is just a state that wants to be free.

 

PS:why do americans think everything is war?

Edited by sparhawk

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Id like to call it Civil strife.For chechnya is a state of russia,and they have not openly declared war on russia.Alas it is just a state that wants to be free.

 

PS:why do americans think everything is war?

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They haven't openly declared war on Russia? Looks like you better tell Chechnya. Besides, didn't Russia try to claim it part of a war on terrorism?

 

Way I see it, both sides got weapons, and they're using them to kill each other in major numbers - it's a war.

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PS:why do americans think everything is war?

208596[/snapback]

 

As an American, I don't think everything is war. But I know that it is laughable to have called Vietnam and Korea 'Police Actions'.

 

I also think that for most people it is easier to say and understand 'war' than it is 'active hostilities'. (Doesn't excuse the use of inacurate terms, but makes it more understandable.)

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lol kenneth i thought that was funny too :icon13: mymy what americans call things to cover up for wars or personal gains.

209768[/snapback]

 

I call wars "stupid." Something wrong with that?

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lol kenneth i thought that was funny too :) mymy what americans call things to cover up for wars or personal gains.

209768[/snapback]

 

I call wars "stupid." Something wrong with that?

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Not that I ahve knowledge of, I agree to be honest, Whats the point of having wars if they don't declare much...President Bush (No offence to people who respect him or to Americans) But President Bush only creates wars or agrees to fight them because HE WANTS TO SHOW THAT HE HAS POWER!!!When as a fact, He doesen't have much to my veiw...

 

Thats all I have to say on that, And thats the end of that chapter!

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You know the Ironic thing about the U.S issues now and before is that they created them.They where the ones that put up saddam hussien,Osamo bin laden,Supporting the taliban,etc.I suppose that they must have seemed like good options at the time.But they were short term plans.Also they stuck their noses where they didnt belong.

 

Number one:Trying to stop the korean civil war in a police action.This means to support the democratic south(To gain allaince) and trying to wipe out the North.

 

Number two:Putting up American "advisers" in veitnam to assasinate the democratic goverment.Bad news..the communists decide to take control of their own country.

 

Number three:supporting the Talinban in a plot to drive out the Russians.

 

Number four:Putting up"allies" in Iraq(saddam),Kuwait,and chile.

 

Number five: giving Osamo Cia training to help them in the middle east.

 

 

What happens one:Many countries pool in the civil war Germany,Greece,Turkey,China,America,Russia and more which ends up in a draw.

 

What happens two:peaceful veitnam turns into a war with the americans fighting for control of the country and the communists trying to liberate themselves.communists win.

 

What happens three:Taliban drives out the Russians and they come into power.Of course they are both not right,wich one is the lesser evil?Too bad the Taliban arent really making the country stable.

 

What Happens four:Iraq invades Kuwait which starts the gulf war.Later on america finds an exuse to attack their former ally(nuclear weapons,oil and 9 11).Saddam hussien is put on trail and a new goverment comes into power.Ironic that the americans look like heros?

 

What happens five:they dont really help the middle east so osamo turns against the americans causing nine eleven.

 

Thats a breif blunt history of the Americans putting their noses in the book.

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