Spear

[Ambrosius]

Since it came ingame the spear hasnt been a real succes. Nobody seems to use it much.

Probably because of its wide damage range (5-65 is still only 35 damage on average) and because of all the negs it gives.

The halberd has been a (big) succes however, so why not revise the spear to follow the line of the halberd and to fill up the gap between halberd and bronze sword.

 

I would suggest:

Give it 50-60 damage, -4 accuracy and -2 defense.

[Vanyel]

I use spear. It looks cool.

[Wynand]

IMO a spear should actually give you positive defense, since its a long pointy stick that allows you to hold off your opponent at a greater distance than say a sword would. Also if you look into history spear formations were generally used as a defensive troop as opposed to offensive. (although I can see how it could be bad at close quarters).

 

If there were such an option, I'd have suggested that if you stand still in spot for 10-20 seconds with a spear it should give you a great defensive bonus (simulating getting into position). But if you equip it in the middle of a fight or shortly before one you have a negative def bonus. But as I said thats prolly roo complicated and time consuming.

[Ambrosius]

Yeah, thats prolly too complicated to implement.

 

I was more thinking along the lines of the logical follow up on the halberd:

 

Orcslayer 35-40 dmg, +1 def, cth, ctd + shield:

 

Halberd 40-55 dmg, -2 acc, no shield:

 

Spear 50-60 dmg, -4 acc, -2 def, no shield.

[Kaddy]

get def bless, use accuracy and atk pots and OWN with spear? no ty. overpowered.

[DHT]

I was thinking of actually making two-handed weapons have a special attack to freeze opponents for 3 hits (like the spider does), but it would have an area effect, that it affect opponents who stand 1 tile further from you - as if you fling the weapon and hit everyone around you, just not doing any damage, only freezing them for a short period of time. of course, it would have to be a really low chance, say 5-10%

[Ambrosius]

get def bless, use accuracy and atk pots and OWN with spear? no ty. overpowered.

 

Lol, only 5 more max damage then halberd but 2 accuracy and 2 defense less...

I'd say that more then makes up for that extra 5 max damage compared to halberd^^

 

Edit: oh, and not nearly as powerfull as bronze sword with 50-70 dmg, +5 acc, to hit, to dmg with which you can wear shield aswell.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Ambrosius

[conavar]

If you look at RL the halberd was an inaccurate high damage slashing/chopping weapon, and the spear while not dealing as much damage was more accurate because it was a stabbing weapon:

 

so the stats I would go for are :

 

Dmg 35-50

-1 defense

+1 accuracy

-2 crit to Hit

+2 crit to dmg

[Ambrosius]

Yeah, that would work also.

Think it would get used more often with stats like that aswell.

[korrode]

--- BEGIN SUGGESTION REASONING ---

If you look at RL the halberd was an inaccurate high damage slashing/chopping weapon, and the spear while not dealing as much damage was more accurate because it was a stabbing weapon:

 

so the stats I would go for are :

 

Dmg 35-50

-1 defense

+1 accuracy

-2 crit to Hit

+2 crit to dmg

Yeah, that would work also.

Think it would get used more often with stats like that aswell.

Might get used a bit more than it does now with those stats... but not much.

 

Minimum damage holds great value as it's the baseline guarantee, you know that even with the worst luck on the damage rolls you will still do X damage, and when planning strategy the worst possible luck is best to be expected. Most people know this, and is hence why the Spear and all single handed Axes are rarely used.

 

With the current cost/ingreds, the Spear sits below the Halberd in value. The problem is that to keep the accuracy VS damage VS defense equipment lineup, for the spear, as a two handed weapon, to sit between the Orc Slayer and the Halberd it would need to inflict around 40 damage and give ~4 defense bonus.

 

The problem there is that RL wise the Halberd should offer more of a defensive bonus than the Spear in close quarters combat, due to the combat stance used when wielding each weapon. A spear is held in a forward pointing position for thrust strikes; no good for blocking anything... a Halberd on the other hand is held either horizontally across the body or vertically for overhead slashing strikes; in either case, the pole can be used to block hits from those positions. This principle is already applied to the Wooden Staff and Quarterstaff, should be with the Halberd too imo.

 

IMO a spear should actually give you positive defense, since its a long pointy stick that allows you to hold off your opponent at a greater distance than say a sword would. Also if you look into history spear formations were generally used as a defensive troop as opposed to offensive. (although I can see how it could be bad at close quarters)

You're right in that the spear was primarily used to hold a defensive line (almost always used with a shield tho), but it didn't hold the line through blocking hits, it did it by easily dispatching incoming enemies in a single strike. EL combat simply doesn't work like this, so it cant really be applied.

--- END SUGGESTION REASONING ---

 

Anyways, i'll quit rambling on and make my actual suggestion

 

The Halberd requires 2 Wolfram bars and 4 Serpent stones. The Spear requires 2 Wolfram bars and 2 Serpent stones.

Swap those, so the Spear is the more expensive weapon.

 

New Halberd stats:

• 40-48 Damage
  
• +4 Defense
  
• -2 Accuracy
  
• +4 Crit-hit (the wide slash range of the Halberd justifies lucky hits)
  
• -2 Crit-dmg (the inherent slowness of wielding a large, head heavy slashing weapon reduces the ability to inflict highly directed blows)
  

New Spear stats:

• 45-55 Damage
  
• -3 Defense
  
• +5 Accuracy
  
• -3 Crit-hit (a forward thrusting weapon would be effective for landing hits if you're skilled, but if relying on luck; more likely you'd miss your opponent, especially as the forward thrust could slide along the curve of plate body armor)
  
• +4 Crit-dmg (sensical for a thin forward thrusting weapon to be good for striking inbetween armor joins, or piecing armor itself)
  

 

The spear would offer farily close to the devastating offensive hits of a Bronze Sword, but with reduced benefits for those relying on luck and with the wielder at a severe defensive disadvantage.

 

I also strongly believe the Bronze Sword should be changed to inflict a solid 50 damage (no range)... but i've suggested a Bronze Sword stats change before and iirc Radu and some other EL players didn't like the idea.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Korrode

[Wynand]

Good reasoning, and good idea's.

 

Although if you want to be realistic about it, the main reason spears were so popular through-out history is because they are cheap and easy to produce (and also because it takes alot less skill and training to properly handle a spear [point and thrust] as opposed to a sword/bow, but thats not relevant), so why make it more expensive to make than any other craftable weapon?

 

And while we're at it, why are bronze swords so imba powerful? I mean the metal itself may be slightly harder than primitive/crude iron, but steel/titanium are way harder, have sharper edges and is a lighter material... (ofc I know EL greatswords are made of 'wolframite' but then what about the basic swords steel long to tit serp?).

 

Then again, tis just a game, doesn't really matter does it?

[Ambrosius]

My main concern was making it more used ingame, its a shame if a newly introduced weapon doesnt get used imo.

I wasnt really looking at the realism of the weapons since its a computer game, altho the reasoning of Korrodes idea makes sence.

 

Btw, a halberd usually had a spear function aswell

See pic:

 

http://www.ambroseantiques.com/armour/1560halberd.htm

[korrode]

I wasnt really looking at the realism of the weapons since its a computer game

I agree ofc, first make balanced weps; then if u can manage to also have them 'make RL sense', great, but if not, eh.

The stats suggestions i made are balanced first and foremost.

 

As for RL Halberds with a spike on the tip, i know, but as we're all saying; it's a game, and since it's a game without separate physical damage types, it's easier to just make considerations for the Halberd as though it's a 'big two-handed axe'.

[Ambrosius]

Combining all these ideas and taking into account it's cheaper to make then a halberd + also giving it some sort of realism, it might be a good idea to put it between orcslayer and halberd with the following stats:

 

40-45 damage

+4 accuracy (quick thrust stab is hard to dodge)

-2 crit to hit (hard to aim at opponents weak spots, needs skill not luck)

+5 crit to dmg (armour piercing, so good change to do full damage)

No defense penalty as you can't use a shield with it, which already gives a defense disadvantage.

[korrode]

looks pretty good