Marriges by err..

[Cicero]

..you wouldn't have a member of the opposite sex in your immediate family. And Males & Females are of course different(i'm not talking sexualy in this case).

 

So you're saying single parents shouldn't be allowed to raise children either, right?

 

Jevik

 

I don't think single people are allowed to adopt. I haven't read everything, we are talking about adoption, right? The laws on that probably vary though.

[Geelef]

Well, Roja, you're absolutely right about 2 fathers/mothers aren't the same as one father and one mother. What I can tell you is that one parent will take up the 'fatherrole', while the other takes up the 'motherrole'. As you said, it's not the same, but it doesn't differ much. And if that kid finds out most parents are of different genders, he might ask questions, and if that happens the parents should be very open, explaining it. The kiddo should accept it then.

 

And btw, hate for girls/boys wont get out of gay parents, the kid'll have contact with his aunts and uncles too.

[Izzy]

que? you lost me after btw part geleef.

 

Um, two fathers vs 1 mother 1 father.

 

Now gay couples I have no issues with, but however I have issues with adoption period.

 

Its because I knew stupid stuff would happen once I learned more about adoption.

 

Can you imagine a 4 year old kid gets paired with a psycho who has a nice steady job and a wife and all.

 

Of course his wife is probably the lunatic in the house around that time of the month. But hey most of the adoptions we hear about are nice until the child asks, why do I look korean and you look white?

 

Or put the child through extra emotional stress. The only time a child should be put in for adoption is when his biological parents mistreat so sevearly that his/her life is in danger.

 

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Period: As for gay marriges, unless they are getting married in some paegan religion that supports gay marriges, or they make up their own religion or find a still living religion then thats the only way for them to get married, in my opinion.

 

To the people (Christians, Catholics, Jewish, Muslim, Dao) they all dont support gay marriges, infact in muslim countries out right gays would be killed and left in the streets for days. (By leaving their bodies in the streets that is a sign of disgrace, all Muslim bodies are supposed to be burried asap.)

 

But thats just a world that actually goes by the guidelines that people set for themselves.

 

I mean if some one writes a book and sais that women should not fondle women and men shall not fondle men, then why the hell are representatives of that book supporting a marrige of the two.

 

Wait, a "holy marrige".

----------------------------------------------

 

I personally dont like the idea of a man and a man having a kid (boy or girl) unless its their own, which is basically not possible.

 

And for those who are going to bring up women who dont produce eggs, guess what, they go their entire lives not having kids. The answers that simple, in fact I'm gonna use it against you.

 

They go with their spouce through their entire lives off the love they have for each other. If a gay marrige isnt something of just childish needs. (If you can dispute that I'd like to point out a poem later) All humans work off needs and greeds, its what makes everything move. But to play on another human being like its some pet and you want one is just sick.

--------------------------------------

 

All these papers I've read everything, its all just stupid, I mean how is this possible its not even possible, I can understand the love part, I broke that down in about 8 different ways, but jeez.

 

I read, gay people are some of the nicest people on the earth, hmmm, I can be nice too, but I'm not gay, doesn't mean Joe Shmo is a nice guy but he can be too.

 

It's a favorable steriotype that is used to support homosexuality. Hey the more gays the better for this world right? I mean think about it

 

If all women loved only women, and all men loved only men, then the human race would be gone in its own disgusting lust for taboo in a matter of years.

 

 

Believe it or not if all parents in the world have 1 kid, then that would lower the worlds population by over 1,600,000,000 people.

 

If those kids did it again the world would lose 1,200,000,000 people

 

A few more times some evil dude magic and swords, earth would be 1 big rpg.

[Wytter]

I'll just contribute with my own oppinions - might come back to flame you all later though ;-)

 

In Denmark it is possible to get married as a homosexual couple - you just can't get a christian blessed wedding (in the church), and many gay couples are unhappy about this special treatment of heterosexuals. As an atheist I have no problem with gay couples getting married - even in the church. The most obvious problem is that it's up to the priests to decide whether he would marry a couple or not, and most priests choose not to marry a gay couple.

Personally I don't think that a wedding in the church is that important, but it would be an important message to send if the church would let homosexual couples get married. This would contribute a lot to the acception of gay couples.

 

As to the question of letting gay couples adopt a child, I am not that sure. I understand their need for raising up a child, and even though the parents may be very fit for the job, it still raises some new issues - since the society we live in is not allways as open minded as one could hope, this might lead to bullying of the child, who would get severe mental disadvantages because of this mental abuse. This is really my only concern, and it is not related to the gay parents, but to the society's acception of these partnerships...

[Izzy]

ouch, neet.

 

You got some of the same stand points as me =D.

 

But all though I have no belief in any religion, I'd like to see if they can follow their own guidelines, and it gives me some sick pleasure to say I told ya so.

 

I don't know, I am just that way I guess. But the thing about adoption is that I mean I try to put myself in the kids shoes.

 

A psychatrist from the late 1800's said it the best.

 

A child with no mother has a major disadvantage to a child with a mother, as at certain ages a child developes in their subconcious sexually very suddle from watching their mothers....

 

It goes on, I cant remember his first or last name I believe it was Friod, or Floydd.

[Wytter]

Well, with the risk of turning this into partly a religious discussion I'd like to say this:

We live in the 21st century... Perhaps the religions should be brought up to date - seriously most followers of christianity (at least in Denmark) do not believe in every word of the bible... I think that religion should be a more personal conception of the world - e.g. believing in love and compassion instead of the owrds written hundreds of years ago... A priest in Denmark has actually said that he did not believe in God as a person but as love - a statement that first got him fired but then caused lots of stir in the media hence they eventually decided to reinstate him. All religions will eventually have to give in to the new ideas, changes in morality and society etc.

But then again - my oppinions concerning christianity comes as an atheist that believes that religions have only been made to make it easier for people to comprehend how the world has been created and to make basic morale guidelines on how to behave around others.

 

I am not sure whether you should believe a psychologist (perhaps you meant Freud?) from the late 1800s on this issue - I think that more modern behaviour studies should be used when discussing this - he might be wrong

[Guest]

Lol ok, look.

 

A religion unlike most things in this world is guided by words written in stone, and just like the effects of time never changes, those words ever change.

 

To say you need to bring a religion up to date is like saying, I think we should update the religion to make the Christian god (Jesus) have a nail stuck in his head on the cross and at the end of the nail a hanging Jewish star.

 

The entire sentence that you made of religions being updates is just the dumbest piece of shit I've ever heard in my life.

 

I mean what’s dumber....

 

ahh me for reading your post =D or you for typing it.

 

Wait neither of us are dumb cause we can both use words over two syllables. But hey, its your opinion right, but do me a favor and do some research before you say churches should change.

 

I mean wtf! Change the damn guide book of the church to add gay people? That’s like the end of the world.

 

Maybe revelations wasnt the end of the world as much as it was the end of "holy" church.

 

As long as a man cant make a man have a baby by natural sex, then gays should stick to their own devices. Make their own form of government go to war take some ones land then they can live in peace on that fruity little island. Thats of course if they want to.

 

Church shouldn't bend for gays; there is no absolute innocent person in the church but man! To change it to let in homosexuals.

 

*Falls back to the segragated world he comes from*

 

Yells: I dont hate gays, but to change church to accomidate them is like saying I can now say I wish I could kill the messiah and drink his blood then piss on him then say I could be forgiven for raping a 6 year old afterwards and have sex with another dude.

 

Which by the way isn''t accepted in the bible thus making it a sin.

 

If only we could see what happens after death, I'm going to find the exact words from the book and put em on some day. =D oh well.

[Wytter]

Sorry, I did not mean to offend you. The words of the book will never be changed, I know this - my point is that the interpretion of these words will change with time...

[Jevik]

A religion unlike most things in this world is guided by words written in stone, and just like the effects of time never changes, those words ever change.  

 

The entire sentence that you made of religions being updates is just the dumbest piece of shit I've ever heard in my life.

 

You're incredibly ignorant. Religions, and their holy books (and most importantly, interpretations of their holy books), change over time like anything else. Take Roman Catholicism for example.

 

Some major changes to Catholicism since it's inception: accepting that the world isn't square, accepting that it isn't flat, the sacrament of confession, the ascension of Mary, the infallibility of the Pope, etc.

 

Not to mention that many basic instructions in the Bible are outright ingored or "reinterpreted".

 

Finally, marriage does not equal religion, and certainling not the Christian one. Otherwise, you couldnt' marry a non-virgin (well you could, she'd jsut be stoned to death after you found out), you coudln't marry a non-believer, there would be no divorce, you'd have to marry your brother's wife if he died, and so on.

 

Jevik

[Cicero]

Some major changes to Catholicism since it's inception:  accepting that the world isn't square, accepting that it isn't flat, the sacrament of confession, the ascension of Mary, the infallibility of the Pope, etc.

Catholicism != all Christianity. The original texts that the religion is based on remain the same, even though the doctrine of some denominations has changed to contradict them.

 

Not to mention that many basic instructions in the Bible are outright ingored or "reinterpreted".

I could ignore any law I want to, it doesn't mean it's not the law anymore.

 

you'd have to marry your brother's wife if he died

I think that was just a cultural thing, there was never a law about it. Maybe that's just my interpretation

[Jevik]

Some major changes to Catholicism since it's inception:  accepting that the world isn't square, accepting that it isn't flat, the sacrament of confession, the ascension of Mary, the infallibility of the Pope, etc.

Catholicism != all Christianity. The original texts that the religion is based on remain the same, even though the doctrine of some denominations has changed to contradict them.

 

I never specified Christinaity, since it there's so many sects, denominations, and heresies that it's far too broad. If you're saying Christianity is a religion matching the original Biblical texts, then you'd hardly find any Christians today.

 

Not to mention that many basic instructions in the Bible are outright ingored or "reinterpreted".

 

I could ignore any law I want to, it doesn't mean it's not the law anymore.

 

if no one follows a law, and no one enforces it, then it's not a law.

 

you'd have to marry your brother's wife if he died

I think that was just a cultural thing, there was never a law about it. Maybe that's just my interpretation

 

 

Deuteronomy 20, if I recall correctly.

 

My point is that a religion is how it's active members practice, not how a book says it's supposed to be practised.

 

Jevik

[Cicero]

My point is that a religion is how it's active members practice, not how a book says it's supposed to be practised.

 

Jevik

 

I got your point, I just disagree. If people aren't following a book that's essentially an instruction manual for a religion, then they aren't following that religion correctly. It becomes a different one. This goes for all religions, not just Christianity. For example, people who would "kill the infidels" in the name of their god when their religion actually teaches otherwise aren't actually following that religion. The people of the crusades and terrorists in the middle east are not truly following their religions. Active members don't define the religion.

[Jevik]

Fair enough, I suppose. But the instruction manual was jsut written by other followers of the religion. I don't see how just because it's written down and old makes it any more legitimate than what a modern day follower thinks their religion is.

 

It would be like saying people int he US now aren't Americans, because they don't follow the original constitution and laws.

 

Jevik

[Cicero]

Fair enough, I suppose.  But the instruction manual was jsut written by other followers of the religion.  I don't see how just because it's written down and old makes it any more legitimate than what a modern day follower thinks their religion is.

For most religions their holy book was usually written by a prophet or other such person who was receiving the information from their god. Divine dictation is what makes it more legitimate. Whether you believe that the original author was right is a different story, of course. Even if you believe that it's all made up, the books are written by the people who made them up.

 

It would be like saying people int he US now aren't Americans, because they don't follow the original constitution and laws.

The constitution contains provisions for it to be modified, whereas holy books usually don't have instructions on how to vote on new religious doctrine. We're still following the constitution because flexibility was intentionally built in to the constitution. Often I think that some things shouldn't have been changed, and other things need to be. That's not entirely up to me though.

[Nitrix]

I think all this is being cause by the Chernobyl accident and nuclear fallout. :?

[Izzy]

Um actually he does have a point, I mean something is written so it isn't forgotten, no matter how it was written it was written in the view of the person who wrote it. The ideals of that book was supposed to be against same sex relationships. I don't think it's ok to rate people, but in the bible it also states that men shall become lovers of themselves which clearly is a bad thing.

 

Put it like this, I ok at doing this so here goes:

 

Lets say we are in a world at a time that the very first homosexual couple is about to appear, now let's say that none of us are blinded by hate or prejudice, or have a grudge against change. The initial reaction to homosexuals in all my gatherings would be the same as mine. Curiosity as to why, who, what, when, and how. Homosexuals are just that, I wish I could just say something to end it and give people a sudden realization but I cant.

 

I know to myself that homosexuality is not something anyone should take part in, and a friend thats a guy should not be mistaken for love, just a close friend. I say this now because I finally just remembered what love actually feels like. (An ex-g/f I haven't seen in 3 years; details: her aunt died so she had to move back to PR with her mom) I might have been puppy love for all I know but back then I wasnt as grown as I am now so I cant tell the exact state of mind I was in, but to me in my perception at the time it was love.

 

However I have a close relationship with a kid I know right now, he always chills at my house, we always play video games, I know the games he like and hates and the same around, if we knew each other any better we would be able to complete each others sentences. But though in some cases we are closer than husband and wife we are not attracted to each other in a sexual sense. However I still go through the pleasure he brings; such as the competition in playing Time Splitters 2, or woopin his ass in Marvel vs Capcom 2, or some other game. It doesn't mean I look at him in a sexual way, just as a friend.

 

BTW I knew him for over 12 years, he was the one who reminded me about Brenda; the girl I mentioned above.

 

That is just how I feel. About the attraction part.

 

The rest of it, such as marriges confuse me on a whole other level.

 

I believed that church and state in the US were 2 separate entities. (YA RIGHT) I mean like I said in other posts, the church is what causes these wars. If you look back, the backbone of all major wars in the past has been the church, its so easy to forget them though just cause Pope Paul apologized to the Jews for the Germans behavior... How can you apologize for that many lives >.<.

 

I believe the church itself is currupt, gay marriges well, lets say this, if my great great grandson turns out gay, and the entire human species turns gay thats their problem, I'll be long and dead. It'll just be so funny,

 

Men hate women, women hate men, Men ok with women but think its freaky to have sex with them. Whoa thats just like the entire world becoming celibate.

 

Almost any way.

[Izzy]

Fair enough, I suppose.  But the instruction manual was jsut written by other followers of the religion.  I don't see how just because it's written down and old makes it any more legitimate than what a modern day follower thinks their religion is.

 

It would be like saying people int he US now aren't Americans, because they don't follow the original constitution and laws.

 

Jevik

 

 

BTW.

 

Just so you know in the bible it sais that the followers of the religion did write it but they werent really writing it, it was the holy spirit writting it through them.

 

Also the consitution has nothing to do with us being americans, native indians are americans but they had no constitutional laws. =P.

 

Put it like this, The catholic religion came from the words of the bible. No man made it up, it is directly from the bible (or so is suggested).

 

America is a piece of land that was here long before indians were here, we just landed on it and called it america.

 

Do you see why you cant compare the two, very very bad illustration.

 

awww! Pass interception violation, penatly 5 yards end zone penalty an additional 10 yards.

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I'm a little skitchy tonight so don't bother responding to this specific post, or I'll most likely end up turning this into a flame and bite your head off.

[Erinaroa]

I'm good friends with a homosexual. It's not really a mistaken love, its just how they perceive things, they just happen to be attracted to guys, things like that happen. I say, people should just accept it, but its not going to happen you see. I also know a kid that hates gays, my friend asked him why he hates gays, and he told him that he would have to hate gays too to understand, but that is only because it is a poor reason, and only someone who shows an equal amount of hatred because of someone that is different than them can amplify it to something major and a reason to hate.

 

Ok, here is what I say: There is always gonna be two sides to everything, and as long as there are, you arent going to be able to convince people to change their mind.

 

Think of an arguement, no matter how many facts, and proofs, and views you state, the person you are arguing with will always have a counter statement, even if it contradicts something they will do in the future, or have done in the past, because people dont like to be wrong, they will argue all the way to their grave, just to be right.

 

It all just has to do with the way everyone thinks about things, people just think differently.

[Izzy]

lol, yup.

 

Its like anything you say is turned against you in the old school fashion.

 

eg. "I know you are but what am I"

 

=P

 

Hey that guy brought up a good point though, I may not believe in god, but I know women are here for a good reason, thats why they got err stuff and we got our ... stuff. (Spares Tumaros and all others under his age) physically we are like a puzzle see, we fit perfectly with one another to make a bright and perfect picture.

 

Homosexuals cant do the same. =D

[Jevik]

 

 

Also the consitution has nothing to do with us being americans, native indians are americans but they had no constitutional laws. =P.

 

Put it like this, The catholic religion came from the words of the bible. No man made it up, it is directly from the bible (or so is suggested).

 

America is a piece of land that was here long before indians were here, we just landed on it and called it america.  

 

Do you see why you cant compare the two, very very bad illustration.

 

When I said American, I was using a common label that means "a citizen of the United States of America". I realize that in other cultures, American refers to anyone from the Americas. Sorry for the confusion.

 

And regardless of what the Bible claims, both were written by people, outlining instructions on what it is to be a member of a certain group. I think the comparison is quite valid.

[Killerlamb]

Humans are animals. Animals are suppose to like the opposite sex. animals don't fuck each other dude on dude. The same saying COULD go to war (however ants from different "tribes" go to war). Its almost like human are just wrong. The bible fucked everything up a LONG time ago and now we're all damned for eternity. Oh well. Most humans are extremelly stupid. Why did we even make the atom bombs before we even have a defense against them. They didn't even think of the power that they had. We shouldn't keep on fighting for useless reasons. Most people think of ants as stupid for fighting each other. (and they are cannibals, so they have a reason to kill other tribes) , but whats our reason?

[Izzy]

hey just had to be the devils advocate there =P.

 

I mean really now, the only time I'd hurt someone for being gay is if they tried to be gay with me thats it.

 

I mean I dont go looking for gay people to hurt, I'm just happy I could go through this without being called homophobic.

 

=P If I was scared of gay people I think I would run not fight em. =P

 

that word is dumb period. A person with a phobia is unable to confront what they are afraid of, if a person attacks gays verbally or physically they are called phobic though... interesting, must of been a gay son of the man who came up with insurance... which by the way is the largest global fraud ever!

 

Hey would Roja and Ent like a $500 or a $1000 deductible or maybe the limited offer $5000 deductible =D. On their car insurance of course.

 

----

 

Any way a person who has a phobia tends to run away from their problem out of fear, or try to aviod their problem at all costs thus making it a phobia.

 

If that person can confront the issue at hand then it is no longer a phobia. O.o very weird.

 

"I'm not homophobic, your just heterophobic, stairin at my jeans watchin my genitals buldgin...." - Eminem

 

Id say that Neo Americans are afraid of homosexuals because they try to avoid them, ok heres a perfect example.

 

There were these two girls in high school, one really fat (well not really, but fat enough) she was nice but well not some one to get with for my sake. Then the other had a better frame, a nice person but still not some one I'd have gotten with back then.

 

Now these 2 clearly had it out for me, so before it got any further I had told them I was celibate. =D (It works its like a girl anti - attractor) But they played it off like nothing and cooled their jets and went down for friendship, they never confronted me about it so it was ok, but I could tell every time I talked to one of them that that was the first thing in their mind.

 

(Just looking at the eyes; it tells tales worth miles in parchment scrolls)

 

Thats sorta how it is now, Americans who are not happy with gays and not too unhappy will just look at them and go... "I think he's gay, ya he's gay."

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I try not to make spelling errors

If ya see em do me a favor

and stfu. =D

 

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