Sugestions

[Damned_Angel]

- Ipothesis:wine/ale/mead can be bought only from taverns and the bottle dissapears after consuming it as ingredient in potions for instance.

 

- Idea: It will be more realistic to have empty bottles after you consume a bottle of wine/ale/mead (in potions). this empty bottles could be stored.

 

By mixing fruits with a mortar and pestle and using an empty bottle you could be able to make some alchohol: wine, mead, ale. this could improve the alchemy level of the newbbies, and help them learn that harvesting fruits and veggies is difficult, but offers more experience

 

- Ipothesis:vials are the most important thing in game that can't be ever made by antisocial players (except sigils, that can be bought)

 

Idea: therefore i think that vials should be included also in alchemy. a potential recipe: tools mortar and pestle and hammer - 5 quartz, 1fire essence.

 

- Ipothesis&idea:

- also titanium plate should be an interesting item to bring on

- if ranged weapons are to be included, gold or silver chain could be an asset.

 

The magic lacks in damage spells, so fireball and ice storm could be included (this will bring an use to fur items as well)

[Learner]

One of the reasons vials and wine haven't been made manufacturable is we do need ways of pulling some money out of the economy.

[Ruln]

One of the reasons vials and wine haven't been made manufacturable is we do need ways of pulling some money out of the economy.

159770[/snapback]

 

Haven't you essentially done that already though by greatly reducing monster drops?

 

And given the recent deflation why would you want to remove money from the economy. Wouldn't you want to do the opposite to neutralize/reverse that trend?

[Learner]

The defation is the price players charge each other and it is a different issue. People aren't buying/selling for a low price because of the amount of money in game, but because of the excess supply of cheap goods. How much cash you have doesn't affect how much you'll spend on something that has a flooded market.1

 

The monster drop and made items all pull gold into the economy, if you don't bleed some of that money off you will have some very strange situations (remember the price of beaver furs on the old server at one time?). As it is, there is still too much money getting into the game. The single biggest way money is getting removed from the game is something we don't want, players leaving.

 

Think about how much money you make in a week, and then how much you pay to NPC's. Any money paid to other players doesn't count because it stays in circulation. Now, how much money do you make from an NPC or help make from one?

[jakoblin]

buy 10 gp each for sand to make glass bottle from a npc.

 

 

 

and buy a 10 gp bottle mold to make glass bottle .

 

these should remove money from the economy.

 

btw these are ruenscape idea.

[Ruln]

The defation is the price players charge each other and it is a different issue. People aren't buying/selling for a low price because of the amount of money in game, but because of the excess supply of cheap goods. How much cash you have doesn't affect how much you'll spend on something that has a flooded market.1

 

The monster drop and made items all pull gold into the economy, if you don't bleed some of that money off you will have some very strange situations (remember the price of beaver furs on the old server at one time?). As it is, there is still too much money getting into the game. The single biggest way money is getting removed from the game is something we don't want, players leaving.

 

Think about how much money you make in a week, and then how much you pay to NPC's. Any money paid to other players doesn't count because it stays in circulation. Now, how much money do you make from an NPC or help make from one?

159776[/snapback]

 

I won't claim to be an expert in economics but I'm having trouble understanding the logic here. On the one hand you are claiming that deflation as because of an oversupply of goods (True) while on the other you are claiming that to much money leads to inflation (Also true).

 

So you have essentially agreed with me while saying I am wrong. I'm very confused.

[duran]

gold into game: selling stuff to npcs. monster drops (both in pure coin and in stuff that npcs buy).

 

gold out of game: items buyable from npcs only.

 

see the problem?

[Ruln]

I understand that. The point however is that the only way to fight deflation is to put more money into the game. More money leads to inflation, which is not surprisingly the opposite of deflation. Inflation means items start costing more.

 

Of course in real terms they end up costing something close to the same in either case.

[Learner]

I understand that.  The point however is that the only way to fight deflation is to put more money into the game.  More money leads to inflation, which is not surprisingly the opposite of deflation.  Inflation means items start costing more.

 

Of course in real terms they end up costing something close to the same in either case.

159828[/snapback]

One of the problems is that this is a closed artificial system so some of the normal economic rules don't apply. Part of the problem that is involved with the deflation is a flood of cheap goods (people just leveling and monster drops) which have little or cost, and a low demand. Some of the items that are worthless is because the better items are available in high qty, so the lower level qty has no demand.

 

But, we can't fake a demand by adding NPC's buying goods without flooding the market with even more money (Trik has shown this). If they buy for too low, people don't take the time to sell them thinking they have more value or trying to get more from players.

 

Both of the problems being talked about (flood of goods & excess money) do need to be addressed, but being an artificial situation, it is very hard to adjust properly.

[Ruln]

One of the problems is that this is a closed artificial system so some of the normal economic rules don't apply. Part of the problem that is involved with the deflation is a flood of cheap goods (people just leveling and monster drops) which have little or cost, and a low demand. Some of the items that are worthless is because the better items are available in high qty, so the lower level qty has no demand.

 

Well, actually I don't know of any manu'd items that sell for more then they cost. Then again I'll admit I don't sell to other players so maybe I'm wrong. I've noted before that the current manu/crafting system is working strongly against the economy. I don't really see a lot of hope until that problem is dealt with.

 

But, we can't fake a demand by adding NPC's buying goods without flooding the market with even more money (Trik has shown this). If they buy for too low, people don't take the time to sell them thinking they have more value or trying to get more from players.

 

It would be interesting to graph over time the number of characters active over the previous 30 days along with the total number of gold coins those players have. This might lend some insite into how the gold coin supply is changing over time.

 

Both of the problems being talked about (flood of goods & excess money) do need to be addressed, but being an artificial situation, it is very hard to adjust properly.

159831[/snapback]

 

Another problem is the population. IE, more active players would likely lead to a more robust economy. In theory as EL grows in popularity some of these problems should get better. Though again I'll say there will still be problems even then if the manu/crafting side of things isn't changed significantly.

[Ruln]

Hmm, actually keeping track of all items over time would be useful. Throw in surveys of market prices at a given point in time on various items and you'll start to get a much better picture of what effect various changes have on the economy.

 

I have no idea how all this data is stored but I suspect a program could be written to gather most/all of the stuff I've suggested in a day or less.

 

Good hard data is always your best friend when trying to understand a problem.

[ttlanhil]

Hmm, actually keeping track of all items over time would be useful.  Throw in surveys of market prices at a given point in time on various items and you'll start to get a much better picture of what effect various changes have on the economy.

 

I have no idea how all this data is stored but I suspect a program could be written to gather most/all of the stuff I've suggested in a day or less.

 

Good hard data is always your best friend when trying to understand a problem.

159899[/snapback]

While I'm sure this could be done, the amount of data space and extra computing power needed for this scares me.

each single items means you have to, for the worst single item, track every single gold coin from whenever it's 'made' (from shop or monster drop) to the time it's destroyed (used in a shop)...

that's a lot of transactions, and i seriously doubt EL tracks individual items, it would track number of each type, for example, a 'stack' of type 'gold coin' with quantity '20000', not 20k copies of a coin.

the extra work would outweight the advantages

[Ruln]

It doesn't need to be that complicated, just simple counts. I've got a lot of DB experience and the overhead on this could be trivial depending on how the backend of EL is implamented.

 

Yeah, it would be nice to be able to track everything from birth until death but I agree the overhead there is likely not worth it. (Even if it were possible).

Edited May 7, 2005 by Ruln

[Lachesis]

Breaking/degrading items and failures with loss are also money drains in the game. One post pointed on an important problem that causes economy problems: the mismatch between supply and demand. It's a real flaw that the items with largest supply have almost no demand, and it is caused by two mechanisms working together: high-level items obsoleting low level items and forcing players to make lots of the low-level items before they can make the high-level ones. The latter one is not touchable, but the former we can deal with. For instance, if the probability of armor & weapons breaking would drop much more slowly when fighting weaker monsters, killing wolves with titanium serpent sword and full plate armor would be a huge waste of money, and the demand for leather or iron armor would increase significantly. Thus, the price drop problem can be addressed separately from the money flood problem.

 

With regards

Lachesis

[duran]

the thing is that armor and weapon degradation isnt a gradual thing. its a all or nothing check. sure one could reduce the odds of breaking a low level item on lower level monsters tho.

 

another thing would be to limit the number of books a person can read/know. this way a lower level person would focus on books that help him while a higher level person would focus on books that he can use. but this would require the removal of the paths of knowledge that we have right now.

 

somehow im thinking that maybe the level required system was better for the economy then the current level recommended system.

[ttlanhil]

I don't like the idea of limiting books, that's a strong step towards class-like restrictions.

one of the things I like a lot about EL is that i can do whatever I like (with the penalty that the jack of all trades is master of none)

[duran]

its class like, but you build your own class kinda in that you can have x number of books known and you pick what books.

 

yes it means that you can no longer become the master of all things, but to me that have kinda been a problem of the game for a long time.