Scamming Guild SwW (Comming Soon)

[justice_knight]

Thats the danger of the written word. Be careful of what you type. I notice you went back to your original post and edited out your insult. For that, thank you.

So, because you dont agree with my opinions you feel entitled to abuse/insult? Weird logic. No one is encouraging you to turn it into a flame. That action was solely your own. Have I resorted to insults? No.

Why should anyone expect to be insulted for suggesting an idea to cater for activities that ALREADY occur in the game?

How does suggesting roleplaying a thief in a thieves guild got to do with someone feeling they can resort to insults? Nothing. If you don't agree, then give a reason why.

Actually I'm not a scammer. Im suggesting an idea for a thieves/scamming guild. Check your facts.

Why is announcing a secret guild by proxy any good? And who says the guild should be secret? I'm not. I'm merely suggeting it could achieve a degree of anonymity in the guild list. Not the same thing.

And why is the idea of a 'regular' thieves guild bad? Have you read anything said so far? Back up your uninformed statement with an argument/facts. Don't resort to just insults.

 

How could a 'secret' guild work? What is a 'secret' guild? It would have to be a regular guild, with rules of conduct governing bahaviour, and ensuring it all fits in with EL rules.

 

Oh, and just so you know, I'm not actually doing any of this, Godfathernoodle is. (And no, I have no affiliation with him. Don't even know who he is) I am suggesting such a guild could work and might add an element of excitment to the game. For that I expect a debate, not insults.

 

Resorting to insults without any factual content or reason makes a person look weak.

 

And.... Round 2! Dind ding!

153447[/snapback]

who said i was even talking about u i was talking about godfathernoodle

[MarantZ]

who said i was even talking about u i was talking about godfathernoodle

 

Er, because you quoted this...

 

They could... but it wouldn't take much at all to figure out what the new name was.  At that point someone can easily create a small database of it's players, or a thread in the Outlaws section anytime they see someone new to the guild.

 

Which was a response to me, about a question I raised.

 

Additionally:

 

but nooooo he had to be dum enough to make it like it was a good thing

 

I've been the one who has said it could be a 'good thing'!

 

Maybe you should of mentioned names?

 

So in response to your question: You did.

 

I had noticed you also quoted a response to GFN. But how does one tell what part of the text is meant for who? I suggest you quote only relevant parts of the text. An example is your post preceeding this one, youve quoted all of my post in its entirety! You only needed to quote specific points.

 

A lot of the flames etc on the boards are started because people don't make their posts clear. However, if people cannot string a concise reasoned post together, then I suppose it's to be expected.

Edited April 16, 2005 by MarantZ

[justice_knight]

geese well u talked about something that was not about u it was about gfn in the first place and the reason i couldnt just get a certain topic of the quote is because i dont know how to just quote one part

[Arnieman]

it would seem to me to be hard work to run this guild. I mean, sure, just change the guild tag, and you fool most people. But, people who are like me and check #guild_info when they encounter a tag they don't know would be able to tell if your name, info, and to join don't change as well.

 

Not to mention your guild member's names would get recorded, so there's $5 to Entropy for name-changes, or you lose a good character and have to make a new one.

 

But, if you think you can do it, well, go ahead. I won't be dealing with it anytime soon.

[NeXt]

who cares i pk all in pk maps so there fucked any way

[MarantZ]

geese well u talked about something that was not about u it was about gfn in the first place and the reason i couldnt just get a certain topic of the quote is because i dont know how to just quote one part

 

Like I said, use names.

[justice_knight]

u big i dont no who ur namer is person

[MarantZ]

u big i dont no who ur namer is person

 

And in English?

[justice_knight]

ur a jerkish scammer end of story

[MarantZ]

ur a jerkish scammer end of story

 

Obviously posting a sensible reply is a bit difficult for you. For that you have my sympathies.

 

And as mentioned before, I'm not actually a scammer. Jerkish or otherwise.

Edited April 22, 2005 by MarantZ

[justice_knight]

well then why are u defending such a dum and unthought up idea

[MarantZ]

Why is it a dumb idea? As has been explained, it is indeed quite possible that such a guild can remain relatively anonymous, as name and info can be changed daily. And those that can be bothered to check daily are few.

 

The only remaining obstacle is due to some people's knee jerk reaction to such an idea. Such activities already occur within the game, and are allowed - they make players keep on their toes and makes the EL experience more diverse. Dark players, when done properly, are not always a bad thing.

 

The trick is ensuring such players do indeed play 'properly', hence why such a guild needs a strict code of conduct.

 

If you think this is a bad idea, you need to explain your reasoning. Calling me names, and making uninformed statements, isn't constructive.

 

And while we are on constuctive behaviour...

 

ur a jerkish scammer end of story

 

Ask yourself, if I called you this, would you be so reasonable in your response?

 

Note that I still havent actually been rude to you or called you names, despite the uncalled for behaviour you have exhibited.

Edited April 22, 2005 by MarantZ

[Bathory]

Why does everyone think this idea is impossible? Man, not everyone's going to check the Guild page very time they trade, and every day to see what the guild's new name is. A handful will, but otherwise hardly anyone.

 

And Justice_knight, why do you care about such a guild? You don't even play the game anymore (even though you only played for a week anyway)... oh wait, you've gone and returned about 50 times in the past few days, so I don't know what you're doing anymore...

[rasberrybeard]

Look I think what the guy is trying to say is that we want to play the game without worrying if the next guy we trade with or offer to train with etc. is going to scam us. There is already that worry, but if an entire guild is devoted to organizedly(sp) doing this it just makes me worry more. I dont think it adds any desirable elements to the game. On top of that, with such a guild in place, dont you think it would wreak havoc on the already frail economy?

Edited April 22, 2005 by scarab2k

[justice_knight]

Why does everyone think this idea is impossible? Man, not everyone's going to check the Guild page very time they trade, and every day to see what the guild's new name is. A handful will, but otherwise hardly anyone.

 

And Justice_knight, why do you care about such a guild? You don't even play the game anymore (even though you only played for a week anyway)... oh wait, you've gone and returned about 50 times in the past few days, so I don't know what you're doing anymore...

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um ive told u i was legolas129 so u werent paying attention i knew it oh yeah and i dont want to be scammed constantly its enoying as heck when ppl get scammed i dont want to

 

Look I think what the guy is trying to say is that we want to play the game without worrying if the next guy we trade with or offer to train with etc. is going to scam us. There is already that worry, but if an entire guild is devoted to organizedly(sp) doing this it just makes me worry more. I dont think it adds any desirable elements to the game. On top of that, with such a guild in place, dont you think it would wreak havoc on the already frail economy?

155200[/snapback]

 

thats what i ment but i was trying to put it short but hey u did it for me thanx

[Tanyia]

Look I think what the guy is trying to say is that we want to play the game without worrying if the next guy we trade with or offer to train with etc. is going to scam us. There is already that worry, but if an entire guild is devoted to organizedly(sp) doing this it just makes me worry more.

155200[/snapback]

 

It seems that having a scamming guild would reduce your worry because they are all located in one guild, instead of randomly distributed in EL. True, you may have to do some hunting each day to find out what the guild name is that day, but I think this would actually be rather fun. It's like a daily quest. If you know several people who are in that guild, all you have to do is note their tag/guild name for the day if you see them.

 

Just for the record, Marantz, I like your idea. I must say it's disappointing that some of the responses to it have been less than mature-it discourages others from posting their ideas as well.

[justice_knight]

sorry if i sounded rude but ive gotten hacked and scammed and its very enoying so it mad me forios when i saw this and marantz i understand but u wouldnt understand sorry for being rude

[MarantZ]

Tanyia, Badwog, etc, thank you for the support!

 

justice_knight, please keep in mind the forums encourage people with different viewpoints to debate. Not everone agrees - it would be very dull indeed if people agreed all the time! But you can make your point without getting personal. For example there are players here who don't seem to agree, but they make their points without being rude.

 

Thank you for the apology. And no worries!

 

On to business. I had posted this in a different forum but include it here. I think it might go some way to explaining how such a guild could be run....

 

I think a scamming/thieves guild could be a 'good/interesting' thing. I dont doubt it's probably already been done (only been playing EL since xmas), but I dont think there is a current thieves guild. The aim of the guild would be a place to cater for those people who want to play dark characters! To have a guild that promotes bag jumping, scamming, and all the methods that entails.

 

But it would HAVE to be in a guild with clear rules about doing it in character, to promote role play. So there would be NO bragging on the forums for a start. No name calling, etc. When a scam/bag jump took place, the thief would state to the victim they've been a victim of the thieves guild and leave it at that. And obviously there would have to be honour among thieves - any guildmates scamming/thieving from each other couldn't be allowed!

 

There could even be room for assassins. A character could 'hire' the services of the thieves guild and nominate a character to be scammed/repeatedy killed for a given time period, etc. Indeed any other guildmates who scam fellow guildmates would also go on this 'hit list'. On non PK maps there is the possibility of reporting the victim's postition to all fellow guild members, so they could be ready if s/he entered a pk map. The target could also be continously followed in non pk maps, but I think harrassing them in non PK maps is a step too far!

 

I'm not sure of EL rules, so maybe targetting players is not allowed. Please bear in mind these are just initial, unresearched thoughts.

 

The trick is to add an additional element of 'spice' to the game, and not to cross the line into making anyones gaming experience miserable.

 

It would also be mandatory to have a clear rule structure. All nefarious behaviour would have to fit in with EL rules for a start. There are bound to be 'victims' who will complain. There would have to be a standard response as mentioned above, and any further insults by the victim would have to be ignored. The guild promotes role playing of thieves/dark characters, and a line would have to be drawn between that, and forum/ingame insults. Obviously there would be no scamming of newbies.

 

It could all fail miserably, or it could be an interesting addition to EL! It is definately a gamble!

 

Been thinking about this for a while, but dont have the money/time/inclination to set up such a guild. But if anyone wants to run with this - please do!

Edited April 22, 2005 by MarantZ

[jimmythesaint]

Ok... after all this bitching going on back and forth that I just read I came to one simple solution.

 

SPY ON THEM!

 

Thats right... beat them at their own game. Create an alternate character and with your main character report/post your alt character as a confirmed "scammer".

 

Then when your alt is in the scammer guild just get the name that they use and everytime they change it you can announce their guild name with your main character. No need to go searching for all this guild info/lists crap.

 

I for one like the idea of a guild dedicated to evil deeds as long as its within the rules/boundaries of the game. But really its too easy to get around as I pointed out above.

[MarantZ]

after all this bitching going on back and forth

 

Bitching going forth...yes. Bitching going back....no. All the abuse has been one way.

 

SPY ON THEM!

 

Very intriguing idea!! The spy would have to ensure he isnt discovered. And there are possible ways of finding him/her out. Send guild members on various tasks and monitor who does what. Allow membership to only those applicants who pass certain tasks. Maybe only allow membership from recommendations. Or possibly only accept players with high scores - (who would put a lot of effort into a second character?) Maybe all of these? But this is all good stuff - it encourages 'dark roleplay'! To have to pass certain tasks to get into the guild could be fun. And further, if the guild has a spy, then suddenly guild activity increases as each member is under suspicion and has to 'prove their worth'!

 

Maybe have a fixed amount of members, say 30, at which point no more members would be accepted? As long as those initial 30 did not include a spy, it would be 'spy proof'. One thing is certain, it would not be a large guild - the risk of spy interception is too great.

 

Suddenly the guild has become quite elitist! It has been established it can remain anonymous, but now it will also have to safeguard against potential spies and this means it cannot grow quickly. It has to ensure any potential member has to be tested/recommended, and once accepted, is part of an elite guild of dark characters.

Edited April 23, 2005 by MarantZ

[rasberrybeard]

Very intriguing idea!! The spy would have to ensure he isnt discovered. And there are possible ways of finding him/her out. Send guild members on various tasks and monitor who does what. Allow membership to only those applicants who pass certain tasks. Maybe only allow membership from recommendations. Or possibly only accept players with high scores - (who would put a lot of effort into a second character?) Maybe all of these? But this is all good stuff - it encourages 'dark roleplay'! To have to pass certain tasks to get into the guild could be fun. And further, if the guild has a spy, then suddenly guild activity increases as each member is under suspicion and has to 'prove their worth'!

 

Maybe have a fixed amount of members, say 30, at which point no more members would be accepted? As long as those initial 30 did not include a spy, it would be 'spy proof'. One thing is certain, it would not be a large guild - the risk of spy interception is too great.

 

Suddenly the guild has become quite elitist! It has been established it can remain anonymous, but now it will also have to safeguard against potential spies and this means it cannot grow quickly. It has to ensure any potential member has to be tested/recommended, and once accepted, is part of an elite guild of dark characters.

 

Several things wrong with this picture. The most obvious being that with each post someone makes against this idea, someone says something like "WE COULD DO THIS blah blahb blah". how many memebears are going to be willing to put up with all these rules and changes?

 

Note the bolded words, which Im sorry but only hurt your argument, there would be nothing elitist or prestigous about it, not only would all your members be anonymous, but if they chose to be known they would be put on other guilds pk lists. So I think your missing the point here, there would be no glory, hardly even any fun, and it would be hard to have to change your name and guild name every day.

 

Also looking at this from the other side, say you need help, who are you gong to ask? "Hi other guild were a secret order of thieves that why our name is not familiar to you, will you help us?" I mean thats taking it a little extreme, but you get the picture.

[Arnieman]

I think any respect the guild could have would be dependent on if it is founded to fulfill a "Robin Hood" complex (such as, take bag with plate from a rich fighter, give to poor newbie at beam), or, if it was a "rob everyone blind and get all the profits for me" guild.

 

Not endorsing this idea still, but if it had a "Robin Hood" style to it, it may be kind of fun to have around.... although I can see the "Outlaw" threads now...

 

Experienced_Player: Some_Thief just stole my Iron Plate! That smegging smegger!

Notorious_n00b: Some_Thief is such a nice guy, he gave me a free Iron Plate!

[MarantZ]

Some good points!

 

The most obvious being that with each post someone makes against this idea, someone says something like "WE COULD DO THIS blah blahb blah". how many memebears are going to be willing to put up with all these rules and changes?

 

That is the very nature of a forum - sounding out ideas. Any rules for such a guild would have to set in stone here, and then implemented in a guild once they are known to work.

 

there would be nothing elitist or prestigous about it, not only would all your members be anonymous,

 

The guild would indeed be elite. Elite means a select few, having earned their position. In this case you would have to earn a place in the guild by some sort of trial, to help overcome the possibility of potential spies.

 

it would be hard to have to change your name and guild name every day.

 

As I understand it, only the person who runs the guild would have to do this? But as I said I have never run a guild so I'm not sure. Have I got this wrong?

 

Also looking at this from the other side, say you need help, who are you gong to ask? "Hi other guild were a secret order of thieves that why our name is not familiar to you, will you help us?"

 

Obviously such a guild would not be asking for help. The nature of such a guild precludes it.

 

not only would all your members be anonymous

 

Please note: As previously mentioned, I am NOT going to run such a guild. However I am very curious to see if such a thing is viable.

 

I do like Arniemans ideas!

 

but if it had a "Robin Hood" style to it, it may be kind of fun to have around

 

Experienced_Player: Some_Thief just stole my Iron Plate! That smegging smegger!

Notorious_n00b: Some_Thief is such a nice guy, he gave me a free Iron Plate!

 

Hilarious! And it would entail elements of good, fun roleplaying too!

Edited April 23, 2005 by MarantZ

[jimmythesaint]

If you have a guild of thieves out for their own gain then how hard would it be to bribe one of the members into telling you what you want to know?

 

Thats if your spy doesnt work out....

[MarantZ]

If you have a guild of thieves out for their own gain then how hard would it be to bribe one of the members into telling you what you want to know?

 

What, everyday? Good luck with that...

Edited April 24, 2005 by MarantZ