Lorck
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Posts posted by Lorck
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This is taken totally out of context. here is the complete quote:
Read what you link to in the future?People enter these virtual economies for recreation and entertainment rather than necessity, which means that virtual economies lack the aspects of a real economyPeople enter these virtual economies for recreation and entertainment rather than necessity, which means that virtual economies lack the aspects of a real economy that are not considered to be "fun" (for instance, players in a virtual economy often do not need to buy food in order to survive, and usually do not have any biological needs at all)
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the relevance of offer/demand law.
Offer/demand law is universal. I explained carefully why it was relevant in the post aboves.Not only that, but you say you can apply any real world economics to the game. Yes you can. Doesn't make it relevant or meaningful though.Next time quote on context, please. EDIT:Or learn economy. Or just stfu.
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I will ignore the rest of your post since its just personal attacks. About being either completely removed or not, i disagree. Lowering BM activity increases shop activity and inflation get lower, all at same time, its a win-win for everyone but the gold sellers, and honestly i don't care about them. There could be transactions etc, BUT hopefully in a a volume that doesn't hurt the gaming experience of everyone (but the gold sellers) as it is now.It's either removed or not, rest is just work that solves nothing. If gc buying is removed it will very likely be hell to do and the whole idea of EL shop is also a bit odd then (depending on how you look into it.) Even if it's removed there will be transactions, there will always be a way.
Not all fighters are powerful enough to farm gold to sell. And some just wouldn't be bothered to do that.so now its fighters who buy the Gc? werent they uber powerfull in-game and rich in the first place? afaik you said fighters are the ones offering the Gc
You think the rates are too low because the gold sellers kept lowering their prices to remain competitive. Some years ago the rate was 1$->3k, nobody complained.if people would all buy from shop the price of stones would fall greatly, whats the point in spending $2 for a lousy 4k?i think the $1 for 8k is already lousy, you could buy 800k and its gone in a week
You could keep doing that, if gold/item selling get illegal, DHT already said it, here it is:Soooo people who buy gc on the BM and then turn around and buy RARE items from people ingame who purchased them from the shop aren't supporting the game??People who sell gc on the BM and then turn around and buy things in the shop to sell to the people who buy RARE items ingame that bought their gc from the BM aren't supporting the game?
The one buying the service/item for gcs has to make a forum thread in, say, Help me forum, looking for a person who could do the exchange. Then if the money doesn't reach radu in some given time, ban. easy. -
Yes, that is the point.BM competes with shop yeah, but buying gc from BM wont bring more Stones in game
Not that retarded, if you keep in mind the competition between shop & gold sellers. They just keep lowering their prices in order to remain attractive to players.its retarded to rely on buying Gc from BM to buy rare stones
Yes, there is a problem. When you buy from BM, no stone enter the game. If there was no BM or the BM was slowed down, fighters who wanted to do $->gc conversion would need to buy more from the shop, adding stones on market, controlling the inflation.hence its not a problem with the price and rarity of stones
You are suggesting that manuers should stop manu? Slowing down the BM option sounds better.they will drop in price again if everyone stops buying at high prices
I am getting tired of answering the same thing again and again, to someone who is obviously biased and posting the same thing again & again. Lower BM activity, more shop activity, lower inflation, win-win situation for everyone but the gold sellers.hahaha, omg still not able to read it? -
Dugur: once again, you don't need to remove the BM to be good for the game, just slowing it down would be nice.
Furthermore, people should work in real life etc, not be like Liam aka Luigi. If a person is in a poor country where $100 can be matter of life & death, how they could afford a computer with a 3D graphic card & internet connection to farm gold in EL anyways?
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Yes, the ammount of evidence of ignobel economy prize keep adding up... Of course you can still apply economics to virtual worlds, here is a start.PHAIL - This is a game, it does not always work perfectly with real world analysis. If demand and supply worked in EL as it does in theory
Some people can't understand sarcasm... ofc, if you keep with this bullshit (like claiming "yeah yeah offer/demand laws are useless in online games because ... because??") then some people from ignobel prizes can look with another eyes.I'm terrified how seriously you took my joke
It is, for the greater good of the community.I thought it was about the community.At Luigi's last comment, i will ignore the offtopic stuff like dragon armors/attributes cap, it seems bullshit to just warp the topic trying to defend a practice which doesn't do any good to the game, it just harms the gameplay. But i will reply to this:
The way it is now its way too easy. Simple as that. People can even advertise in many forums without fear of punishment. Slowing down would be really good, tyvm sir. Btw, once again, GET A JOB dude, a real job, not something as shameful as online selling of gold in games.There will always be a black market in any game, it's inevitable
Yes, i did answer, its not my fault you are way too dumb to understand or way too biased to admit. Here it goes again: the BM players actively compete with the shop. Its just unfair competition, the BM guys keep lowering their prices to outbid the shop. Mainly manuers buy stuff from shop, why is this the case?uhm, you didnt answer it, you skipped the fact that people with brains buy their rare stones from shop instead of gc from BM and then still not be able to buy the stones. (because they are rare, buying gc wont bring more into the game for the BM user to buy)Why not fighters buy from the shop, but only manuers? Because they buy from the damn Black market?
Lol @ you talking about brains, yet again.damn, i thought that example was easy enough to understand, i should draw a picture for you next time lol -
I didn't, i already answered this stuff, funny how you didn't read or was way too biased to just ignore straight away.lol funny how lorck can skip some simple thingsThe stones are RARE, they are supposed to be RARE and the only way to get them in-game is by harvesting/shopbecause the stones are rare and very wanted the demand is higher then supply, increasing it's price, Inflation has nothing to do with the BM
This was already answered in a post replying to your post. Its either a blatant bias (you are a well know BM user) and/or just dumbness.Its simple, i am sure you know all this but i will explain it again. When you buy from a player, instead of buying from the shop, no rare ingred get into the game. And Entropy keep the drop rate low so that (1) the BM players don't get much gold in their hands easily, (2) in order to stay competitive. The BM just hurts the game expirience of all, not only of those who buy from the BM.About the rest of your comment, the players of BM offer a big enough rate in order to compete (unfairly in my point of view) with the shop. Just ban the gold sellers, i would say, stop straight away the competition.
@Senzon: I would prefer that the items of players who don't want to play anymore would stay on their storage, tyvm. And there are still plenty of farmers...
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This is not the case. The market has a demand/offer, the offer is too low for the demand, you totally ignored it(maybe bias?).Actually if you read my post you'd see I wasn't blaming anyone, simply stating what happened.
I know from a guild i used to be in, with like ~30 players, 5 or so stopped just because of the changes on harvesting. No, not cheaters or farmers, legit players. Bullshit is you blaming manuers for the fault of gold sellers, that is bullshit.How many? Since when do you have access to such detailed statistics. Stop talking bullshit.
Enough players to affect negatively the economy and the gameplay.Let me guess. You have stats on how many people use the so called "black market as well?
This is true, you simply gone with the trend of ignore the offer/demand and just blame manuers to try to protect a practice in a game which is completly against the interest of the vast majority of players. And asking for a nobel prize? Rofl, ok nobel prize is not what used to be, but just claiming you want a nobel prize for some ridiculous statements make you deserve an ignobel prize.
ow.And finally, you should be indicated to ignobel prize of economy, instead.And once again, you don't need to get completely rid of BM to do any good. Just slowing it down would be a really good thing. Hell, only slowing it advertising would be a good thing.
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Frost: is different to earn the gc in game, and outside game.
And don't come with that Bullshit "oh, its evil manuers' fault". Its not, simple, read my post above.
About player retention and population and all, do you know how many legit players stopped because of the mini events? I know many. Why the mini events started? Yep, to slow down the BM. How many who stopped or will stop because of f*** up economy? I bet many. Just get rid of the damn black market, which only hurts the community as a whole to the privilege of some guys who use the BM. Just slowing down the black market will improve the playability of the game, and increase the population.
And finally, you should be indicated to ignobel prize of economy, instead.
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Great stupidity? Try to buy this stuff on market. About being "the evil manuers' fault" i already debunked that myth, but you ignored (due to your obvious and blatant bias?), don't worry i will do that again.Just another act of the great stupidity of lorck. Really, you obviously have all the statistics that prove that the shortage of these items is because of the BM, it possibly couldn't be top manuers could it?
We think because its true. Simple fact: free economies are driven by offer/demand law. If there is not enough offer of rare ingreds and demand stays strong, prices will go up. There is not enough offer of rare stuff because players buy from BM instead of buying from the shop, then there is not enough items entering game and the manuers will have to raise their buying prices.Lol you people think that the manuing items price increase is caused by BM. It's obviously because of the top manuers fighting over the resources to mass manu.I don't think Luigi (or the other gc sellers) will agree with the above paragraph, but everyone who studied a tiny bit of economy will recognize it as true. Of course, they will keep saying "but ohmygod, its not our fault, its evil manuer's fault", don't fall for it, because there isn't really the case.
No, one of the reasons for that to be put in game is to slow down BM activity. "But Lorck is retard, show some statistics please" you would probably reply. Ok, straight from Entropy's mouth, on his blog, right after the introduction of the mini events, i will skip the irrelevant part, btw:@Lorck: Mini-Events were put into game to help prevent afk harvesting from alts."Recently I made a few changes in how the harvesting works. Mainly, I increased the number of events...Gold farmers had many harvesting characters which were used to make gold and then sell for RL $$$...while at the same time impacts the cheaters and farmers, with relatively little impact on honest players."
Ye, its not the gold seller's fault. And it does impact a lot the honest & legit players , the most hated feature of EL of all was put into place to exactly slow down the BM, while punishing the bulk of good & legit EL players. This is TOTALLY outrageous, to say the least.
I am not Nathan, but this question is easy enough so i will answer. The manuer's are not dumb, they won't try to inflate artificially the prices (and ruin themselves in the process) if there is enough supplies to meet the demand.Let me ask you a question nathan, do you think that ingreds prices solely increased in price because people bought GC from the BM? Or do you agree that people mass manu/hoard ingreds increasing the price?
Not really common sense are easy to find in EL. As it is to find gold sellers. Just make it illegal, at the worst case it would slow down their advertising, in the best case it will completly remove it from the game to the great joy of the bulk of EL players.Common Sense is hard to find in EL nowadays.A final note to Luigi: get a real job, dude. There is no "diplomatic" way to say this, but really, get a job dude, ffs.
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Well, you just commented like some people did earlier on channel 6: "omg that books will make afk players pr0 without doing anything". It takes long time to read a book, making it only worth to people new to the skill, till lets say 40's... They are a very good idea imo, and people should try before saying BS."WOW! Awesome Idea! Where do/will people get them from in-game?"Are you just commenting without even reading my post?
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But it was never saw it used as much as it is now, to the point of provoking serious problems to the economy, and to the point of the introduction of mini events in the hope of slowing it down.The so called "black-market" has always been there. The so called "high prices" are "new". -
My rl is fine & you don't know anything about it. As i said, i don't considere myself superior to most people just to griefers (people who plays multiplayer games to irritate others, like jumping in a bag and making it poof for no reason) and their cheerleaders (like you). I also think i have luck enough to not need to sell gc/items in game to pay my bills.
If you feel really in need to cheerlead griefers in online games due to lack of attention, then i am afraid who doesn't have a future are you, not me. And what you define by parasites? In my point of view are some of the griefers you cheerlead for.
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Oh Gohan, still saying bullshit till you get #ignore'd... seems you don't have changed either.
EDIT: And about being diva, etc, i guess you are also a member of the club gohan. ^^ And the pursuit of attention is what makes griefers (like sleepyjo) and griefers cheerleaders do what they do, some people try to justify that behavior claiming "omg community rules just sux" but we all know it comes from lack of attention.
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To Ringil_Oddsocks: like i said in another post, you may be santa claus and give high level items & gc to other people, but if you keep giving tons of stuff to other, unrelated to you people, then i think there is something really suspect.
About being costly to moderators, they already keep track of trades because of the illegal multi thing, and if there are too much work added they would just say that, we are discussing here if the gc/item selling for $ from players being illegal would be a good thing.
About "making BM hard to opperate", i say its way too easy as it is. There is even a whole forum dedicated to flame each other and/or black market.
And its not just about the economy. There is the mini events, which in my opinion, is the most disliked feature of EL which is only in place to slow down the black market. I feel its just wrong that the bulk of the EL players get punished with bad economy & mini events for the benefit of a few buyer/sellers of gold.
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Not all transactions, only the suspect ones, like people giving each other large amounts for almost nothing. Also making it illegal, would harm the ability of the gold sellers to do their advertising, which would slow down the BM and benefit the EL community at large.And the moderators, all volunteers that are supposed to be helpers, not a bunch of highschool hall monitors, are supposed to all keep track of this, in their own time, for totally free? Or do you expect Radu to keep track of all these transactions, instead of investing that time in actually developing the game?
And in my opinion this has to do with the low amount of those items entering the game, ie, too much BM activity. If there was enough of those items entering the game, that 2 or 3 high level manuers would not afford to keep buying for big prices for long. Also its hard to find stuff for selling, its obvious to me its related to the low supplies of the ingreds.Not really. From what I can see there are 2 or 3 people just raising the price they are willing to pay for things like serpent, bindingstones and wolfram bars -
Ye, people give another 4M of gc all the time, cuz they are sweethearts...
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I don't did that for nothing. They provoked me, and they were noobs for other reasons, not just that they had low levels. I usually help people with low levels, and i don't call them noobs if they aren't jerks AND noobs.#1. So you're trying to tell me you didn't call golemer/lamorian noobs because they had low levels? bad liar.
Not really, i reply because i like to have arguments with noobs, like you.#2. you're an idiot, of course you care about what people think about you or else you wouldn't have replied.
Usually when i die i just mention something if i got laggy. And i think i only fought you on your char on the test server and even if you was fighting with a shared char i don't whine. And about that episode what you think? I should not have being pwned by a char who (1) was light years ahead of me in levels;(2)was bought; (3) was shared;(4)was fighting someone resetted... Yeah, i had many chances to win, at least i fought, its not a "whine" just stating simple facts.#3. I pwnt you at nca/kf etc many times. Each time you had a different excuse, including my favorite: "You beat me because I have low mana"
And still agree that account/gc selling is the biggest problem of the game. At least someone with your name did on ch6, dunno if it was you or someone who you share your char.#4. lol, taking stuff so seriously. that forum title was a joke with me and some mates. I've sold my fair share of accounts and GC, never said I didn't.
I don't act like i am different or superior of the bulk of the EL players. I may think i have more luck irl than some losers who have to sell gc in online games because they can't get a better job irl, but that is another issue.I know what I am, you make excuses for yourself and try to act like you're different or superior to the pact.Obviously your not so high and mighty seeing as you're 27, live with your mother/father, and play EL 7+ hours a day. Go out and live in the real world once in a while eh?
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Again, if they were holding because of price, it would be easy to buy when you try to buy on market, the sellers would just pm you with high prices. But i lost my bronze greaves some time ago, no way to buy it on the market, its easier to just get ingreds and someone to mix for you.or, they produce the items and keep them in storage to prevent them from dropping in price cause of too much supply
Its simple, i am sure you know all this but i will explain it again. When you buy from a player, instead of buying from the shop, no rare ingred get into the game. And Entropy keep the drop rate low so that (1) the BM players don't get much gold in their hands easily, (2) in order to stay competitive. The BM just hurts the game expirience of all, not only of those who buy from the BM."mentioned shortage of rare ingreds."if theres a shortage of rare ingreds, wouldnt that have to do with the droprate, or rate of finding them while harvesting rather then Gc selling/buying?
Its not that hard i guess, if someone keep giving large amounts to other players for nothing, either he is santaclaus or there is something really suspect.Theirs no way to track the sale of gc/items/chars when rl$ is involved. you don't have access to receipts/reliable sources. that's why they call it the "black market".Also, there is even a forum dedicated to this, and again, its just too easy the way it is now, if it get just slowed it will be do a lot of good for the economy and the game in general.
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You don't need to catch all the "rule breakers" to slow down the BM, just make the buyer or seller think twice about doing that. The way it is now is too easy, no risk for the buyer or the seller.And how much are you willing to pay to policy something like this? It would take a major effort and resources to be able to reliably detect all real $ transactions! -
If that was the case, then we would see lots of people offering (lets say) jagged saber for big prices. What he have today is that high level items are both expensive AND hard to find, due to the mentioned shortage of rare ingreds.and its not just competition between top lvl manuers outbidding eachother on everything? -
We are expiriencing a shortage of bindings/efes/emes/rostogols etc due to the competition between the black market and the EL shop. We also get mini-events to slow down the black market. My suggestion is: lets get a more healthy economy, no more buy way overpriced jagged sabbers, etc, no more mini-events, just get rid of the damn black market which only hurts the economy and the game in general.
Btw, cast "create fire protection", because i expect to be flamed as hell after this.
EDIT: I don't think we would really "get rid" of the BM, but it would slow down it, and that is pretty good.
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I never call other people noob or whiner for nothing. And yes, i am a big noob, but a big noob who did more in this game than you will ever do, call me arrogant, but its simple fact.Lol at the hypocrisy. So feeble minded. You yourself go around calling others noobs & whiners for "nothing" when you're a big noob.
I don't care about you or other people think about me. I have other perception, and other people who know me well also think the same way.You obviously think you're above other people by the way you act. not just one person perceives you as this, but you claim constantly that you're something else.
When?You give people smeg about making excuses, when you make excuses constantly.
LOL, the guy who says that the problem with this game is that people buy accounts and/or gc, and also claims he is the #1 account/gc seller, calling another person hypocrite. Please e-mail your photo to dictionary publishing houses so that they can put it right with the definition of hypocrite.Take a look around, you're a massive hypocrite. -
As other indicated, you got pr0 rationality due to your mage build. One possible solution to the issues mentioned in this thread is to weak the effects of regular remote healing and reduce its costs... and provide an higher level spell, which does the effects of the remote healing we have today with similar costs of what we have today. The game needs more high level spells, the highest useful spell, in my humble opinion, is mana drain which is level 40.I can remeote heal someone for 90+ hit points. The cost for that at the moment is fair imo -
I am pretty happy as they are right now, but i never noticed much of a change on tool breakage.They already decrease the chance of tools breaking. But seriously, with all of the changes made to this medallion, can't we just be happy now?
Make gc & item selling for real money illegal
in Suggestions - General, Misc.
Posted · Edited by Lorck · Report reply
And to Asgnny, very pr0 post BUT i disagree with the alt restriction or one person at a time. The gold sellers have already done too much harm to the game, we could just try to make them illegal instead of trying to slow down them restricting the actions of the whole community.
EDIT: And to gordong11, please read about some other posts on this thread, thanks.