Lorck
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Posts posted by Lorck
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Honestly, WHEN I SAID THAT? Better, can you quote someone saying that, plz? Don't put words in other people's mouths.everyone in favour of this idea, the pp buyers worked extremely hard for their PP and you want to remove that. no rewards involved. you want to screw them cause they put in more hard work then others, while they arent even that overpowered.taking away the rewards they got for their hard work equals not being rewarded for hard work.
Btw, in the bolded part you admit it is overpowered.
Because its true. Honestly, just name a computer (or pen & paper) rpg which is at least half succesful that the scale of attributes/levels are not exponential (with the obvious exception of EL).and still you keep going on about that linearly crap
All dev teams of rpgs should learn from other games' good things and mistakes. One thing that worked in all games and worked well, is the way you get the stats. The only game which has a problem in the way people get their attributes is EL at high levels, guess why.another game doesnt have a tree in kf, should we remove it?
But everyone can use the spell. If everyone can use it, its fair, right? Its available to all. Its your argument.thats why the spell would be overpowered cause you cant do anything about it, you can do something against a pp buyer.
It is similar in one way: everyone can use it, its available to all players, so its not overpowered. The fact that being available to all players DOESN'T make it ANY LESS OVERPOWERED...but seriously, if you want to argue, then atleast have valid points and arguements, a spell which insta kills someone isnt the same as someone who needs about 8 hits to kill you if you dont restore.
But you said they were overpowered, read above. And the fact you have beaten someone stronger doesn't mean anything, since we don't know the details of how you killed them. If you kill them in a fair fight, 1vs1 or something, i will be interested to watch a fight in NC arena, specially at brave's day.proved multiple times they can be beaten by a lower a/d with no bought pp, conclusion: they arent overpowered.
They get the highest power in a totally imbalanced way. I have no problems with people who train to get powerful, but i do have a problem with imbalances.they train and get gc to buy those pp's, hence they have the highest power -
This does not make *ANY* sense. Imagine a spell that instakill. Its not overpowered, since everyone can cast it (or build a char to cast it). If its available to all, in *ANY* way it means it is not overpowered.its available to all
No, WOW has hard caps, at level 70, I don't know of a single rpg game where your attributes or levels scale linearly, and it seems you don't know either. I will make here the same challenge i did to you on the ch6: just name ONE at least half-succesful game (excluding EL) where your attributes or stats goes up in a linear way, just name one and i drop out of the discussion.the linear fashion crap is the same in every game, its normal. its like that in WoW aswell, the stronger you get, the better equipment you can have, the more gold it costs, the more you are able to earn, you just need to work for it.The games were designed that way for one reason. EL was designed this way too in the beginning, and people still says that before the "pp buying" fest the game was more balanced.
Name one person in this thread who said the work put on the chars should not be rewarded... why you complain for something people did not even suggested?note that last part, you need to work for it. if you dont want to then dont complain at forums how those who do work for it are overpowered, thats selfish -
When i get some good astro, i go to irinveron, and i usually find the "bad" north spawn open, and i train on it. Dunno why people don't go fight them, its still good exp & drops, at least for me.
Btw, i agree that the yeti spawn time should be lowered, and you just can't have everything. If for more spawns/lower respawn time we have to accept lowered drops, i think its a fine deal.
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Its simple. In most games, its get harder to get even more powerful once you get a power increase. This is not true in high level fighting in EL. You get more powerful, you can get more drops (from spawn/instances), then you can use that drops to be even more powerful, etc. And since the way to get more powerful is constant, you get a linear increasing in power, at a constant rate.(2)In EL, at high levels of a/d, you can buy character "power" by buying PP's in a linear (or so) fashion;IPlease explain what you mean by a linear fashion. If you mean that people tend to earn gc at a constant rate and can therefore buy nexus removal stones and hydro bars at a constant rate, that may be true
Its obviously imbalanced. It gets increasingly hard to be smart/fast/strong as more smart/fast/strong you are. At least it should be this way. If that was required to use 50 bars for 1 nex, than 60 bars for the second, etc, i would not complain much. The way it is now, its just too imbalanced.
The difference is that they would use their brains when building their char, and another difference is as stated above, not an "increasingly" easier time since the game would behave as it was designed to behave, when you get stronger, it gets harder to get even more strong.
This i want to refute right now. Its so completly without any sense. The way it is now is just "try to max" the attributes, so what is the "variation" in it? None?quite frankly i'd say theres more variation in builds now then when you change it.It seems logical to me that if pp buying is removed players will still try to make their characters as strong as they can, so what's the difference?
They get strong to a point that a player on top 10 of attack can hit the pp buyer guy for like 8 of damage using an orc slayer. Or to the point that they can get multied by yetis/achims in invasions and win.Here's a question I don't we've answered yet: just how much stronger have some players become due to pp buying? Has it really made a significant difference?
Then you would have a "soft" cap, another significant design feature of the game. Yes, you still could be stronger, but it would be diminishing returns, people would at some point just enjoy the game instead of trying to hoard gc to bid for more PPs.The upper limit won't be lowered at all. The only difference would be that it would take somewhat longer to get stronger. -
I don't have time to right now to reply to all of the slimpick's or infamous' comments, but i would like to say some things:
(1)Most games use an exponential scale to control the "power" of this players, it seems this was the initial EL design;
(2)In EL, at high levels of a/d, you can buy character "power" by buying PP's in a linear (or so) fashion;
(3)the fact you can do (2) in EL at high a/d levels (yes, mixers are overflowed with gc, thats why they always bid high in every auction on the market o.O) makes it very imbalanced.
This i want to refute right now. Its so completly without any sense. The way it is now is just "try to max" the attributes, so what is the "variation" in it? None?quite frankly i'd say theres more variation in builds now then when you change it. -
Well, i posted that because Ozmondious does not seem to like much to do the bars. My point is: people should not do stuff they don't like in order to be competitive or have fun in a game.K, you do this to stay competitive? What if to stay competitive you don't needed to do boring/repetitive stuff?Pardon me, Lorck, but that is what training is too. Training is repetitive and boring. Mix a bunch of this....hammer out a bunch of this....cast this spell a bunch of times....kill a bunch of this critter....repetitive. Making 50 hydro bars from raw ingreds..repetitive. I don't see a difference in how repetitive these two things are.
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K, you do this to stay competitive? What if to stay competitive you don't needed to do boring/repetitive stuff?I'll have to think about this more, but one thing that I think is being overlooked is that it's not just a walk in the park to buy pp's. I have mixed all my own steel/iron bars and a few of teh swords, harv'd my own hydro and made those bars. It's not easy to buy a pp. Meet me at the iron, and I'll go through the entire process with you, then one more time to sell the hydro to buy a removal stone -
Well, i think people should be rewarded for their work, no doubt about that.edit: and it definatly isnt good for the game, does anyone want to see all their years of hard work go down the drain just cause someone lower, focusing on other skills says its best for them? no, people quit for far less then this, remember how much people quit with something as simple as mini-events?this would make most of the top 50 a/d quit if theres no compensation, how is that good for pk? pk would get more dead, and we'd have more people who only train instead of pking, atleast with filling the attr cap people get the feeling they own enough to go pk, without it, people would just keep training and training till they are so far above everyone elses a/d that pp buying isnt needed.
How is it good for PK when someone who is now very ambitious about it but in the low 100s a/d is already facing PKers like you who will only get more attributes maxed out, while the lower leveled one still needs to train? Sure, people can buy a character and instantly get a lot closer to your levels, but someone who wants to play the game and level the char all by themselves basically will never stand a chance because it's an endless story.
You will take that as 'crying', but it's not. I'm perfectly happy with my character in which I've invested a lot of time, effort, and gc/USD, and with my 109/114 a/d. But in the long run, for the game, it's important to get new players, and to make them stay. At the moment, most new PK oriented players can within a month be found on unoff forum because they already see they can never catch up with you if they wanna do it all from scratch. It can't go on like that. Is that tough on a few players who have been playing for years? Yes. Should EL stop developing only to keep those longtime players ingame? I don't think so.
But who knows.. maybe Radu will read this and come up with a solution that makes you just as happy as the original poster and the ones that support his post, so why kick and scream now already?
I also think EL end game should not be just "get millions of gc, to bid for pickpoints", try to max all the attribs without strategy, then go to pk (and in a pk environment with 50 or so players who all did the same).
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No, they would still be very strong if pp buying gets removed. The point is that they should at least think a bit in the building of their chars, and in strategy and all, instead of just endlessly "click in an yeti, restore if your hp get lower than a certain point, get the bag, repeat".The argument against keeping players from becoming very strong is that players who play more, train more, and generally put more time and effort into getting stronger should be getting something for their efforts. Why should players who train very little be just as strong as players who train a lot? If you want a game where victory is determined entirely by skill and not by amount of time spent level grinding, play a first person shooter, not a role playing game. -
People should not die often while training. People die while training if (1) they are fighting monsters stronger than they should have fighting AND/OR (2)they are careless/incompetent/n00b and can't control the char properly AND/OR (3) they have lag (or because they got grued).do you have the statistics to see how much people die and lose rost? no, so where are you getting your info from?another 1, you said yourself you spend most your time harvesting, so how would you know how much people die? i dont either, but radu is happy with the rosto losses atm. should say enough.
I have no empathy for those who dies for reasons (1) and (2), if you die for reason (3) you should get a better internet connection.
So yeah, people should not die often while training, that was my point, rosto costs should not be a huge factor in training costs.
No, nobody argued here that mixers should pwn fighters in combat and they still would not pwn fighters in combat even if the fighters can't buy pps. Fighters have (or should have) higher a/d and higher OA than all the rest, they naturally have more PPs than everyone else;if its not lazyness what is it then? they are willing to work hard to beat those pp buyers? doesnt seem like it, they want to continue doing fighting unrelated skills and beat the people who spend most if not all of the day fighting. shows they arent willing to spend time to work on the skill they wanna own in =lazyness.
If you have 40 or more extra pps, it doesnt matter how badly you spent your pps (only if you do crazy stuff like getting excavator perk), you will still have a huge advantage against those who did not have 40 extra pps.ill say it again, how do you get those loads of pp? by pp buying, do you get those in a month? no, you spend years to get them, will anyone with common sense put pp randomly if they might have to do with that build for a couple more months till they can spend more pp? no. come on, your smarter then this.
Factor whatever you want in, fighters still generate WAY MORE gc (again not talking about exp) than everyone else hands down.but while you make them you have chances to find Nexus removals (helps your pp buying if you want to fight better) enrichment stones, binding stones, rostogols, attribute removals, gc for free with mini events and other random events.
Funny that when radu asked if the spawns should be changed you was one of the first to criticize it because of lowering the drops. You want everything easy, great exp, great drops, easy spawns, the game served up in a silver plate. Maybe if you and people like you were less greedy than we would have spawns for everyone.and you completely fail to see that theres always things to harvest, but there arent always yeti's to make gc from.if it really was that much easier then why does everyone fight and buy their Gc? if it was as easy as you said no1 in their right mind would spend 1000s $ on Gc.
you already said you did the yeti killing on Test with no1 around to occupy the spawns, i wish that was possible on main, lol i even offered radu $ to change the spawns
only Senzon and Smurf as fighters sold Gc, but they buy too. that should say something, mostly its small amount unlike the millions mixers sell.my arguements arent invalid, i've been around long enough to know how things work, in black market and in-game, maybe you should spend a few more weeks in EL before saying things that dont even make sense.
When Learner said that? I remember radu saying on ch6 the black market slowed down a lot after the mini events. And you are the admin of the forum which hosts the black market, you should know that most people selling gc nowadays are fighters.again, a false arguement. Learner (a developer of the game/admin/mod/guy with server access) or however you want to call it has said its because of harvester alts.
Indeed, before the pp buying fest the game was better, and yes, i like to talk and chat about the past, this not means i dont know enough about the game right now.again, Welcome to EL Lorck, spend some time learning theg ame again, alot has changed, from about 90+% of the convo's you have it seems you are stuck in the past, always bringing up the past.
I will argue till you stop posting stuff without much sense, to your own benefit, or till i get banned from forum (or get posting restriction).you need to live and learn in the present if you want to argue about things that happen now -
People don't die often, so usually rosto is not a factor in the consideration of training costs.Lorck, theres so much wrong about your arguments.1st, why would people train less? cause sr/He get more expensive? price drop of rosto covers for that, and isnt that good for the mixers? win-win for both, mixers make more gc, fighters spend less for rosto's and able to afford the rise in price of Sr/He.
Nah, its not lazyness, and of course, you cry that you don't have money for pk, monster training doesn't make you enough gc (ROFL) and then you buy pps for millions, great. Btw, who cares if the thread starter was a LION member (i thought DUGUR was prkl member, that was the tag i saw him on kf.2nd, it was originally suggested by a LION member, read the thread before posting. and the people suggesting to remove it are mostly the people too lazy to put in some work to beat others ^^ (does it even matter that pp buyers defend it? like their opinion doesnt count rofl)
Nah, you don't. If you have a huge load of pps it doesn't matter much how you spent your pps. You still have a much better char than the others without thinking (and without knowing exactly what you are doing).3rd, thats what we call charbuyers Lorck, welcome to EL
besides, you dont get max attributes in a month or so, it takes years. so randomly spending them wont work, till you max all you have to spend wisely
Yes, i have being harvesting tons and tons of stuff (i harvest more than i do any other stuff in EL, because of RL, no, its not because fighting is "expensive", this is ridiculous imo) and never got any nex removal stone. And about the s2e stuff, you know it takes MUCH, MUCH more time to make the bars and all, than to just kill yetis and with the drops buy the swords... And yes, i have done both, kill yetis (after the caps & yeti gc reduction) and made steel bars, yeti killing is way much faster hands down.4rd, if you are gonna argue, use some valid points. the last one didnt prove anything at all.just to point it out to you, notice how i mentioned harvesting hydro and hopefully find some nexus removals? you dont need to spend much gc for that, the removals you find are free, you dont have to pay for the hydro either, indirectly you do cause of the S2E, but the exp covers for that, trade-off between gc/exp?
Maybe before the mini events, etc. And i rarely see harvesters announcing gc for sale on black market, its mostly fighters. Btw, your arguments are not even valid to begin with...and we all know its harvester alts who sell Gc, soooo yeah.. if harvesting really was less gc then everyone would have a fighter alt to make and sell gc.next time, try to quote and give valid arguements back, do some research and use the knowledge you gained.
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And it would increase the prices of SRs/HEs.really, if people have to go around for resources that would decrease the amount of harver alts, less gc comes in game by NPC and less Gc gets sold for $, thats good for all EL.
People would not train as much (i mean, most people, not the top fighters who makes ridiculous amount of gc to buy pps AND/OR sell for $), therefore people would not lose much rostos.rosto prices would go down, $ -> Gc rate would go down making it more attractive to buy from shop and sell in-game, good for radu and the development of this game, no?
Yes, people like me (hey i am LION member now? tell that to the LION folks who attack me in KFand i argued with someone about removing pp buying, at first its "whats best for the game" but later it changed to "its best for me"just cause most of the pkers are stronger then LION doesnt mean u should screw them over just cause they do buy pp and you dont.
), Liquid, Korrode, Senzon, are all LION members. To be fair, the few people who defend pp buying are usually pp buyers.
Yes, much strategy, just get pick points, use it randomly for attributes and you get an uber char. Btw, there was a post of some pp buyer on this thread showing that he could not even know what toughness cross attribute was for, that i can call "strategic" char building.besides, we have caps, its still possible to make a strategic attribute build to fight, someone else just spended more time and work then you on maxing them all.
You know that harvesting get MUCH less gc than monster fighting. I would not even discuss the exp, because 25x or so the amount of exp per hour is ridiculous.afaik most of you can harvest, including hydro. so why not all go harv, find some nexus removals for eachother and join the pp buying club -
Funny how i am for weeks "about a week in game".lorck, you have been back to game for about a week now and you know all..
=Hc= and nome? Plenty of pp buyers and/or gc buyers and/or gc sellers.who are my allies/friends? you dont know, proves your first argument false
K, then just do it, instead of saying "well, their gc was bought with $".alot of pp buyers are enemies, i dont cry that they are ebul pp buyers, no i work my ass off to use whats available to them too and beat em
In this server i can't. Only with really good astro (like +6/+6 of a/d i can do yeti, and only with good astro + boost pots i can do trice).2nd, then go fight lorck, you are at the stats to train yeti/trice, so if you would happily trade it then do it.
And do what with it? I have either do carry it to a sto, or to mix it on spot to do anything useful with it. Then if you clock everything up, 4kgc per hour is what i get.and if you can barely harv 2k silver in 1 hour then thats really pathetic, you can harv atleast 4k or more each hour
The argument is quite simple, the game is already way imbalanced in favor of top fighters and you want it more so?you must be joking that im joking, what a wonderfull argument
Makaveli doesn't buy PP? Lil_boosie did not buy gc? What about Liquid, he doesn't sell gc? ....then name them? hmm only one i know of is Senzon, Smurf and 1 else. all 3 dont buy pp.
Do what, fight yetis and trice? I do it on test server. Killed some trice and some yeti there. Nothing broke, i had some profit that i used to buy weapons to test there, like bronze swords and spear and etc. On this server i have killed plenty of PW and MCs and FCs (for over 3 weeks), got only 1 jagged sabber damaged, and 1 titanium shield damaged (on pk).they do what you can do aswell, just cause you are too lazy to do it doesnt mean all the pp buyers hard work should be for nothing.Btw, you know that harvesting is much more boring than fighting, and that if i could do Yeti, or even MC (lack of spawns), i would do it in a heartbeat.
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Many sells gc or buy pickpoints, then they have lots of gc to spare. And again, i don't care if they spend $, and it seems you don't care either, since many of your allies are gc sellers/gc buyers/pp buyers.hmm which fighter has a nice storage by doing their skill while not spending $?
Yes, you lose every kind of armor every hour... bah, i would happily trade my 4k i make from harvesting for like 7k per hour fighting (and gaining ridiculous amounts of exp) and risking lose some stuff.and yes lorck, more can be made from trices, but more can be lost aswell. tit plate/greaves/cuisses/CoL/MoL/shield/OS/Rost for like 15k gc an hour. oh, and the 4k worth of Sr/He needs to be deducted from it aswell.
It used to be like 3-5NMT a week. ^^ I made tons of gc a time, spent everything on pk (rostos, giant stones, orange spam gear), and people say pk is expensive now (of course its expensive, you have to save money for millions to buy pps).the only reason some fighters are uber rich is cause they got lucky to be able to train yeti when they still dropped tit armor, and could find like 3-5 NMT a month
You must be joking.now its kinda balanced cause drops got significantly lowered since then, andn ow u add expenses to our already big list of expenses.how about increase drops again to cover for it?
I know much more fighters who sell gc than mixers.and i know a few more mixers who could have storages like that, but they sell millions worth of gc often. no wonder u dont have much gc then -
And who cares? If pp's buying is ok, why not give the manuers some extra gc? I mean, its not the pk is expensive and all, since you guys have even gc to buy pickpoints for over a million gc, 20k to fix an armor won't hurt much your pocket.great change for mixers, aslong as others pay for it..need to replace dragon armors more or repair them, in the end its fighters who pay for it, another thing to add to our list of expenses, will we be compensated for it?
no cuz then its yelling and whining that fighters will be overpowered ^^
Actually, repairing the armor should help lower the cost to the players because it'll take less items to repair then to make it new!
but radu did say he will increase breakrate aswell
besides, demand for scales goes up, price increases, manuer will charge you for it
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You said in this post that you put LION guild brown because they "cried"... why don't you ignored them? Oh, btw, Kgxjeff says you cry on pm to him often, and this can be seen on your unofficial forum signature... double standards for the lose?if u can brod us for accepting a person who may have serped your spawns....i cant brod a person who pisses me off and doesnt stfu after i told him to stop 20x no?#ignore ftw?
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What about the break rates if this changes get implemented?
Btw,: voted yes.
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Thoughness should affect only combat damage, rationality attribute should protected against harm (and other offensive spells),or i am wrong?mean fill up atributes to increase ur thoughnes abit witch protect u abit against harms :< -
Better than brod for no reason, =Hc= did this...=hc=was already brod tagged when i joined so idk
but when it got red than back to brod. we told in #ig
unlike you guys didnt pull a brod during a fight
and it was for couple of reasons.
You brod tagged =Hc= because they summoned in PK.
lol
EDIT:And i have read in another forum that =Hc= brod tagged a guild for attacking while training? When that stopped =Hc= from attacking someone? Bit hypocrite, no?
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I can't see why Masterpiter could not benefit from it as well. He would just get an even higher OA. And i remember masterpiter being upset when the SRs changed and his pp's put into vegetal nexus gone to the garbage. Then i resetted to get "clean OA", and i still get penalised for that?I'm not going to argue more about this, but still I don't like this idea.As I said earlier, it would make training too easy. People were crying about TS and now you want to make it easier again? This game includes lots of sacrifies. Just see how Masterpited made his way to the top. He sacrified his oa and then trained it back. Think how pissed he would be if he came back and saw there was that kind of stone now. He worked more than a year to get his oa that high after reset and now he just needs to buy the fucking stone and get higher oa than ever.
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You can always make the stone one lifetime use only. And i doubt if radu made the thing $1000 people would use it often. Just think about chars, how many chars sells for over $5k or so? And even if they do use the stone often, if they spend k's of $ in the shop, radu would be happy.Just make the stone really expensive. There are removals from anything nowadays, but before that you could do only #reset to remove pick points. I remember me, NItager, and some other folks resetting once because the SRs got changed and there was no point to continue to make potions if you was a fighter, so the pickpoints you put in vegetal would be lost. Then years later your OA you had was gone forever? NO CHANCE of getting it back? A bit hard, no?Even it would cost 1000$, there would be people buying them with RL money and gc.
I did reset to recover from an error i dont even did, read above.Yes it is hard, but it's the point in resetting.
No, 2Billion exp is not easy to get. The #1 OA is probably at least one year away to get it. And who cares anyways, the people worked in game to get exp, i can't believe that is "worse" than just get a credit card and buy some pps without do much stuff in the game at all.Soon there would be people with maxed oa this way and it kinda makes the original idea of this thread pointless, since there would be those 160 a/d people with nearly max oa. IMO it's even worse than PP buying.
If they work in game to get great exp, i don't care if they are evil or good, rich or poor, i will respect them.Edit: And again ebul IRL rich people gets the biggest profit. -
There is no way i can think to stop the $->gc conversion. Even in games where it is blatantly against the rules it still happens. And yeah, korrode stated it all perfectly.
Edit:
Just make the stone really expensive. The stone could be an "one" lifetime use only. Like you can only use a stone once per character.It would make resetting "too easy" and you would even get profit from it. Just train your char, then make "real" reset when you don't get good exp anymore, train again with pretty good exp and continue to do so until you have uber pr0 a/d. Then just buy the stone and you'll get really high oa very easily. So I'd say no to this idea.There are removals for most things nowadays, but before that you could do only #reset to remove nexus and perks. I remember me, NItager, and some other folks resetting once because the SRs got changed and there was no point to continue to make potions if you was a fighter, so the pickpoints you put in vegetal would be lost. Then years later your OA exp you had was gone forever? NO CHANCE of getting it back? A bit hard, no?
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Agreed.Atm nexus stones aren't used to remove failed setup on nexi, but to buy pps. Also make an npc you can use to remove a nexus point to another nexus. -
K, i want to order 3k silver ore. If you guys later can accept orders on Life essences, please let me know.
EDIT:JuvenaL in game, btw.
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People had trouble adapting to cooldown, to the harvest mini events, etc. And all those changes in the end improved the game (but i still don't like the mini events).I think that it will make it harder to explain to all of the newbs if we have to tell them they only have one of the requirements to really use a weapon. Even if all the documentation was updated, they would still have trouble with it.
Interesting, now people like Aislinn are ebul fighter pkers? Btw, one of the few "ebul fighter pker" who posted in this thread was me, and it was against the idea. But after reading all the stuff on this thread i have changed my mind.This thread is about fighters not liking their amount of safety and chance to win on a pk map. I think it should have been deleted as soon as that was clear.And i think your logic is totally flawed, to be honest. I think 99% of the "evil fighter pkers" would want newbies wearing expensive stuff so that the newbs could drop their shiny IDA set...
Thats what irks me the most in the EL community. People would not want a change, even for their own benefit, if they think that someone they hate would like that change.While a friend of mine suggested that such restrictions would increase the demand for lower class weapons like ti long and ti short, I am still against this.
There were many earth shattering changes, like cooldown, automated harvesting, automated mixing, just to name a few.hmmmm....most changes in the game are rather minor. This one seems to question Radu's basic game design for weapons and armor. It sounds like "human nexus is stupid. let's replace it". Has he posted on this thread yet?
Remove PP buying
in Suggestions - General, Misc.
Posted · Edited by Lorck · Report reply