Elf_Ninja

I voted yes and that i would purchase. I'm interested in this proposal and don't think it would have a large neg. effect on the in game economy since most of the suggestions mentioned are chance based. I also like the idea of possible P2P based on the 3 initial races perhaps some different physical features, eye color, hair etc. That being said I do think that if you really want to see better income from the EL shop you should consider revamping the shop page. It is not very user friendly, I know when I was an el noob and first looked at the page I just was Having a form that people can fill out automatically with their user name and either a drop down or click and purchase(Like a shopcart program) would drive up sales imo. It might also be good to include a link in game to the shop page or (if possible) be able to purchase shop items through an in game menu, with delivery coming through going to an NPC instead of a member of staff having to meet you and deliver. I think making it more available to players will increase your traffic in the shop and help drive up profits. Hope that's not too off topic.

Firstly I'll say this poll was worded very poorly and very bias. Secondly I voted No, I don't think that this solves the problem it's like putting a band-aid on a arm that just got cut off by a jagged saber.

Ok maybe I wasn't clear. The reason that we HAVE to add in the time saved by the school to compare the two methods is because in theory you make 97.5gc for every min you are not doing the project. So if there is a difference of 506 min between Method 4 and method 2 then you have to take that into consideration when you are doing an Analysis of the different methods so that you can track them evenly over time. Our time base right now it the largest Number in the two methods: 852. So in order to get an accurate reading both methods have to be measured against 852 min. As it stands in the "Total Cost" of Method 2 only 346 min are taken into consideration. So you must make up the other 506 remaining min in order to compare the methods evenly otherwise you are doing what everyone has been doing this entire post forgetting totally about time cost. This would be the same if you had 10 Methods you were comparing or 50. Every single method would have to be measured against a stable unit of time. Lets put this in a real world example and see if it makes more sense to you. The schools in EL are kinda like Outsourcing in the real world. In outsourcing I can get a product made for me that I could probably make myself but it may cost me more time. In a business time is defiantly money. I would have to pay someone to make the part in my company and then install it in whatever final product I'm making. So say I'm a DVD company and i produce DVD that come with a case. Right now my company makes cases ourselves and it takes 6 hours for us to make 1000 cases and we pay 1 employee to make those $12/hour and and our material costs are $.05 per case. Now I've just got a brochure from a company that says they can sell me DVD cases for $.15 each and free shipping! If you are a true business person then you will do cost analysis to see if it saves you money, if your a bad business person then you say LOL they are charging triple what I pay now ROTFL. So what would you find out if you did an analysis on this? Well in theory you save the 6 hours you pay your employee so that is a savings of $72 per 1000 cases, if the materials for 1000 cases cost you $50 total then that added up to $122 total that you spend on each 1000 DVD cases. How much does it cost to order 1000 cases from your brochure? $150, But wait? Now I have an employee that can make the company money somewhere else for 6 hours. So say I can set him to making graphic's for inserts that makes the company $144 in that same 6 hours. I still have to pay them so that means we only make $72 but I can say that because I'm now Outsourcing the DVD cases I make the company $72 more in 6 hours so I can take that $72 off of the expense of the $150 I'm paying for the DVD cases since I have to calculate what I'm doing with the extra time I have. So that means it costs the company right now $122 to make it's own DVD cases or with a re-adjustment of resources by outsourcing and re-assignment it costs $78 for the same 1000 DVD cases. If you can't follow that don't go into business. You will fail. Oh and I could possibly give the employee a raise to compensate for the new position and still make money.....or I could fire him and still "save" $72 for that six hours which result would be the same but I wouldn't have the extra money making potential.

Ok so you know the "official" term for what we are doing here it is called Cost Benefit Analysis In order to compare the methods we need to allow them to stand on the same footing of time. As stated in above link "all costs are expressed in money terms, and are adjusted for the time value of money, so that all flows of benefits and flows of project costs over time are expressed on a common basis in terms of their “present value.”" So what I did in the "Gain" Table was express the total value gained by using School based on the amount of time needed for each proposed leveling method based on the 97.5 gc/min base. So here's how it works in order to compare One method to another we have to "use" the same amount of time. If we don't then the formula is wrong as one part will have been calculated with one time and the other part with a completely different time there fore not creating a balance. So we in order to find a gain or loss versus Method 2 and Method 4 it would look like this: Total Cost 4 - (Total Cost 2 +((Time 2- Time 4) * gc/min) 116501 - (154245 + ((852-346) * 97.5)= Gain or loss 116501 - (154245 + (-506 *97.5) = Gain or loss 116501 - (154245 +(-49335)= Gain or loss 116501 - (104910)= Gain or loss 11591= Gain (because number is greater then 0 it is considered a gain) So this means for the total amount of time spent on the project you gain 11591gc. If Total Cost 2 had been a Higher number causing the final number to be negative then there would have been loss. Hope this helps I'm still in EL while doing this multitasking

In theory, Trik is "paying" about double that. Did I miss anything? Ok I believe the correct formula would be: (Quantity*Item Value - Cost)/time= cost/time In this instance it's: (Quantity*Item Value - (Item Cost - Travel Cost - Time Cost)/Time= Cost/Time (10365 helms * 20gc -(33271.65 gc loss + 2067 travel cost + (936mins* 97.5gc/min))/936mins = 86.21 gc/min I think that's pretty much what the box under the school theory shows. Tirk with carry of helm with buying all ing upfront gets closest to being profitable but still is a loss of 11.29gc/min. Also I reset the sheet as it seems someone deleted a whole box and I fixed two things Zenial pointed out: Food cost is 6 and not 5 as I had it Carry to Trik and School adjustment to include the higher food value.

See the bit in bold!?! (I thought you read the posts before yours :'() Doing it without carrying an extra 31 leather helms is crazy talk. Weight of leather helm = 3. Weight of leather helm ings = 7+food. Thus, I'll only be using a small section of your spreadsheet. With such, I'm a little skeptical of separated "Trips leather" "Trips Thread" "Trips food" - of course this would have no effect on school outcome, but I will use combination (leather + thread + food + helms + needles) trips when looking at Trik. Yes that is why in this spreadsheet I cover all 5 possible ways you can level using helms. And you can actually carry 32 helms if I counted right. That is included in the variable Trik w/ Helms. The Trips leather, trips helm etc are all based on the EMU entered at the top of the sheet(I used that standard stated in this post for my initial variable). You can actually change the EMU and it will adjust how many trips you need to make automatically based on the max amount able to be carried back to sto every trip and the amount of gc you are wanting to spend on your project. The nice thing about this chart is you can enter in your personal emu/gc and figure that out. Actually not true, In the trik way there is 3 tele ports if you buy all ing up front. In the School there is 4. The main issue I have with the initial post is that it creates a chart like that which I made for ways 1 and 5 on my spreadsheet. It is a very bad way of lvling but is presented at the top as a way to recycle your gc: The problem is that most responses after that people have talked about buying all the ing. up front and then getting the gc back. That is not how the theory was presented, you would need a much larger gc investment then stated if that is the way this should be presented. And if you actually follow the path laid out in the initial posting it is a very long and expensive process. Because you HAVE to factor in that you will NOT get your gc back UNTIL you sell all your helms back to trik and then start your cycle over again. Hench Charts 1 and 5 on my spreadsheet. In each cycle you cannot buy your leather/fp/thread before you get your gc back therefore you have to travel there and spend the TIME to do it again.... and again.... and again.... Putting a price on time is the factor everyone has avoided. I came up with the number 97.5 gc/min(5850 gc/hour) based on some tests. But you can enter in your own personal value on time in this chart and decide which way is best for you. I've found through testing that 87.7gc/min(5262 gc/hour) is the break even point if you can make at least that per min then it is better to use the school, even if you buy your ing. up front. If not you are better of using the buy ALL upfront and carry helms to trik method. That being said it is also worth noting that the higher your emu the more plausible Tirk becomes, but still does not make him more profitable in the end when factoring in time. I'll admit that the reason I started this was not necessarily to prove you wrong although I could see it was in the math. I did it because I also wanted to know which is better. I have done both ways in my manu lvling, and in my in game experience I finally decided on the school as being better intuitively. But this process has helped me see the actual numbers that helped me come to that intuitive decision. If you want the link I provided you can even download a copy of the spreadsheet(in various formats) and check all the numbers and formulas individually. The reason I Declared all the variables at the top was so that I knew what all had to be factored into this process and how it related to every possible way to lvl using helms. If you don't declare all your variables you most likely will miss one along the way(which I did in my original post which is why i went back and added that chart at the top of my spreadsheet) and say that factor is not important enough to consider. Truth is it is important if you want to have a full understanding of the final outcome. Things like: Statements like that don't bring and objective and well rounded approach to the problem, you must be willing to address all arguments to be able to find the correct solution. If this chart had found that with the time factor added using Trik is inevitably cheaper then yes I would have switched. And yes some of the numbers I posted above I have admitted were wrong because I had added a variable in twice before I cleaned up the spreadsheet by declaring all variables properly, and when I found that issue I was ready to recount my statement that School was better but it turned out to still be more profitable with time even though it wasn't as much as I had originally come to believe. Anyways I'm a long poster hehe hope that helps understand some of why I did this. And really if you can provide ACTUAL changes or errors in the formulas/math on the chart I am willing to change my position. But be prepared to show your work and don't leave out factors you feel are unimportant because you think so, you have to prove that they are unimportant.

Ok since there is interest I went in and cleaned up my spreadsheet and made it viewable online. You should be able to adjust any of the variables in the top chart and it will adjust all the numbers in the sheet. If you find an error with any formulas post here so that I can verify and I will adjust Right now it is set to open so anyone can play with the document but if you do please try to reset it to base values when you are done. The first column base values are as follows: 800 38205 =(4.67*3)+(2*4)+(0.24*5) Formula for helm cost 20 =ROUNDDOWN((C6-1)/7.11, 0)Formula for helms no carry =ROUNDDOWN((C6-1-96)/7.11,0)+32 formula for helms carry 97.5 45 Here is the link: Leather Spreadsheet It is pretty irrelevant in most of the formulas, but it is very relevant in the manner in which this theory was posted above. If you travel every time to gather your ing. again because you truly limit yourself to the initial amount of gc then it becomes a serious factor, seconds add up to minutes, minutes add up to hours. No worries new chart does all the rounding based on the entered amount of gc and emu Ok added this method in, it seems to save you about 6 min. if you do decreasing gc method, and about 26 min if you do the buy up front method. You can check on chart. Let me know what you think i'm interested in feedback. Oh and please note the chart after the School method this gives you the total GC gained by saving time. ~Edit: you may notice some difference between the numbers I posted in above posts and the numbers on the chart. I found a few extra numbers in there that I added in the wrong places (multiplied a few things 2 times instead of once ) and so fixed. But tested the new formulas and they are accurate now afaik. But it seems it is still profitable to use school just not as much as stated above sorry.~

Selling flowers for 10k TS pots Starting price: 290k Auction ends 48 hours from now..... Time is now: 19th March 2009 - 11:43 AM (Central Standard US) Go!

Only a few hours left Flowers sold close

Ok the original post theory was: So when I calculated I did my formula based on this decreasing gc path. If a person was to get all the ing and do them all at once the numbers can be run using the formula but a -gc amount would have to be added to the final equation. (which thanks for posting I noticed and error in my math!!) Trik formula should acutally read: Time=((E2*2.67)+(F2*0.75)+(G2*1.5)+(A2*0.05)+(1.5+0.5+0.5+(ROUNDUP((A2/114),0)*2))) I forgot to add the bolded part as one cannot carry all the ing. in one trip to Trik, just as they can't carry all the ing to school in one trip! So in reality at this point it is now much more profitable to go with school I will post new numbers at bottom. If a person was to get all the ing before doing Trik way the totals are: 10 hours 52 min, Travel cost: 159gc, GC lost to Trik: 24,265gc Time loss: 36,712gc So total lost this method is 60,977gc, Lost in School would be 53,414gc So in theory you save 7,563gc at school compared to Trik This is of course assuming that you can make 97.5gc/min harvesting raw ing. Ok I'll try to explain this better I didn't want to do a uber-mega post but pry would have been clearer. Based on the Decreasing gc theory every time you spend the gc, you must then go and restock, Hench you actually have to take the number of ttr and multiply that by the number of times you do a whole cycle. So for getting ing. for Decreasing gc the ttr cost would be written: GC=(13*(53*3)) There are 13 cycles in post, it costs approx. 53gc per ttr, and in the above path there are 3 ttr. So gc=2,067 subtract from that the 212gc it costs the person loading up on School theory and you get your extra travel cost of 1,855gc. OK updated numbers due to my error in the formula: Trik Decreasing gc method mentioned above: 14 hours 23 min, Time cost: 84,143gc, Travel cost: 2,067gc Total loss: 86,210gc School method: 4 hours and 35min, Time gain: 57,330gc, travel costs: 212gc, GC loss: 89,914gc Total loss: 32,796gc School method saves 53,414gc over Decreasing gc method if done as stated in original post! Wow hope this helps and remember kids:

Ok so I know I'm resurrecting this post but I couldn't help it. The reason? Every bodies Math sucks!!!! yay! Seems some variables were left out and I'm not sure where actually Zenial gets the final time numbers. I'd also like to add a possible gc/min ratio so that we can figure how much is spent on time. To do this I asked people I know with 800+ emu(as the rest of this seems to be based on) at how much raw materials they harvest in an hour. So purely raw ing. I get about 97.5gc/min.(this is at current silver rates with someone of 800ish emu) So for Trik way, I'm gonna assume that the person starts in Irsis, then moves to MM, MM to PL, PL to VotD, then VotD to Trik. So the formula for time to Trik is Time=((E2*2.67)+(F2*0.75)+(G2*1.5)+(A2*0.05)+(1.5+0.5+0.5+2)) E2 is Trips of leather, F2 is Trips for Thread, G2 is Trips for Food, A2 is the number of helms, the numbers next to these represent the amount of time needed for each action. The numbers at the end are the amount of time needed to travel to the sto in maps ing. are bought from npc. **All times have been converted to decimal for easier calculations** So using Zenial's chart of recycling gc the total time do to all the helms listed up there (7777 total if helm costs 23.12gc based on npc pricing) Total time needed would be 12 hours and 21 min, Travel costs using tele to portals (and assuming they can beam, or that rings cost nothing to them) is 2,067gc, and you have "spent" 72,247.5gc worth of time. Why does it take so long? Well you assume that you are starting with 38,205gc but what people didn't figure is that to properly recycle you money you have to get it all back from Trik and then spend it again. So every single time there is a new column you are spending time doing trips again. So after cycle 1 you are inefficient on trips to Feasting pots. After cycle 6 you are starting to be inefficient on trips to thread, and after cycle 8 you start to be inefficient on leather. Ok so School. In this I am assuming the person starts in MM, goes to PL, PL to Irsis, Irsis to WV. I have also added in the time it takes to go from sto to school and back. So formula for time to School is Time=((E2*2.67)+(F2*0.75)+(G2*1.5)+(A2*0.05)+(0.5+1.5+1.67+(ROUNDUP((A2/114),1)*0.4))) Same variables as above only now we are only doing 3889 helms. So time is 4hours and 35min, travel costs 212gc, time "spent" 26,812.5gc. That means in the time you save doing it this way you make 45,435gc. You also save 1,855gc in travel costs. So even though you start with 38,205gc you have to add 47,290gc to that for added time and expenses= 85,495gc to lvl with trik To lvl with School is 89,914 plus 212 extra expenses= 90,126gc So the real loss in using the school is really 4,631gc I will use school maybe I can turn some of those raw ing. into something worth 4,631gc in 30 more min If you wish me to post my excel spreadsheet I did this on I can, I can also provide all variables.

Ok so I had to at least post this to get it out of my head lol. Here's my idea: What if when a player(with a rosto) was killed by another player(or possibly monster but less inclined to that) the rosto stone had a random chance of dropping 1-3 platinum coins? I thought at first gold coins like 500-2k but I'm more interested in the platinum coins as they are not used much if at all in the game and they don't as of yet have a set value since the NPC sells high and buys low like an item rather then a currency. I didn't think the prize should be to high as it would be abused if the reward was to great. The main reason I though of this was to possibly encourage some pk even though I don't pk myself I might be more inclined if I had a chance at getting something, and since most people visiting pk maps are all decked out in the best gear but also use a rosto there is no motivation to kill them for me as the only reward would be a minor amount of XP as compared to monster/animal training. Anyways it's out there now thoughts? ideas? Rip er up I won't be offended just had to get it out there. Hopefully leads to more bricks for Ent.

Ok this one worked for me.....at first. Loaded it up pressed F2 couldn't get past IP insides but was able to F1 back through many maps. Was averaging 40-50fps per map. Closed program and edited config file to 1k and it wouldn't open. Tried 500, 250, and then 2 for kicks. Still did not open so when back to 1 and still won't open. Error log reads: Hope that helps.

[map_viewer\main.cpp:236] invalid bitset<N> position I get this as well. Specs: Processor: AMD Athlon 64 FX-74 Processor (4 CPUs), ~3.0GHz Memory: 8190MB RAM Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT (2 separate cards not in SLI) Operating System: Windows Vista™ Ultimate (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1 (6001.vistasp1_gdr.080917-1612) Motherboard: Asus L1N64-SLI

I voted no..in general. I guess I want to know is this a limited issue? only certain maps are truly affected ie: NC? I find it nice at times to have bots in say a mine where i just broke 3 pickaxes and don't want to have to run all the way back to sto for another one. At the same point I hadn't been to NC for long time and went there a few weeks back and was shocked by the number of bots. I figured since they had to be approved in the first place it had been decided that this was a "trade" zone to keep them out of other areas lol. And I do like the idea of keeping bots behind stalls I thought that was what they were partially added for was future use by either NPC's or Bots. BUT if bots are required to stand at stalls you might consider expanding the trading area of a bot in the front as there is only one usable square to trade on some of the bigger countered stalls, fells kinda weird trading with a bot through the back of a stall... Anyways I'm sure there is a compromise out there, possibly some bots do have to move but Others in random areas of maps aren't really that "randomly" placed they were put there for some reason like selling me a pickaxe cuz I'm lazy. ~edit~ What if that alley in NC was changed to look like a marketplace? Kinda like a squatters market would that ease some peoples feel of the alley? just a random thought I had after I posted.

1 in 2000? I think your sampling is small. I've made many(many[many]) vials. Yes before astro was introduced I had an even better break rate say 1 in 6000 or even better. And I didn't pay attention to astro at first but if you do(if your not skeptic) as I have started to my break rates are going back down. What does that mean for your figures? way off, I got to where I could actually under sell the NPC on vials and still make a profit. 15gc for a vial is a joke, and the only reason I stopped doing vials is I got sick of them lol. IMO EL economy is doing ok. Players really are free to ask what they want for an item they make or buy or as I prefer trade for something other then gc. Raw materials for me are 95% of the time better then gc. It's not about the money for me as much as the XP I can gain. And rare items are just that hard to find, at times I have many other times I have none I just adjust my strategy and wait till I can get some again. Raw materials in bulk are a must for this game, whether that be hours of monster spawns or hours at the silver mine. As time goes on things get adjusted and tweaked to make it better, when(if) cities come about I'm sure higher lvl players will love it as out for the gc they have and new/lower lvl players will go about their business and possibly dream of attempting to attain the prestige of being apart of a city someday. As a side note someone a few pages back I think mentioned paying to keep a rank with a god. I think having a somewhat stable lvl is nice but WOULD pay in items on a monthly or set time period to a god say rings for crafting or swords for manu etc. to attain a higher god lvl that would allow more xp. It might be another out for high lvls of items needed for lvling or possibly rare items could be asked for as well if one got too out of hand. So in theory god quests as they stand would still be in place but if a patron would like to advance in worship and stay "active" in there god's eyes they could donate goods to gain more xp or another added bonus of some sort say less fail/add lvl in skill for a amount of time ie: 1 el week or 1 el month etc. I think that would be a nice added aspect to the EL roleplay/gods that would have positive effect.

Hey now that I see the enriched ess added guess I should have voted 30+ I save mine for future use, either armor or weapons, or possibly new things to be added in the future. Most of mine tho is EWE as a crafter I make many WE and I don't have any good place to use the EWE when I get them, Arrow mold here and there and made a s2e of ice but still have 20 EWE and growing... GC is under 50k atm but have had much higher, usually it goes fast tho as I invest it in xp So don't think I'm hoarding rare stuff and when I do hoard regular materials it's to do lots of lvling soon Hope this helps your research

I'll take all the raw meat. Catch me in game tomorrow.

I wasn't complaining in fact if it is a feature of the instance it is working well as I stated. I figured that you wanted feedback on the game play and monsters, etc. I may come at the assessment slightly different then most as I have a background in computer animation and have read on game design/theory. So in that with that I tend to notice things like visual cue's, map layout etc. as that is how I've been trained. The walking wasn't so bad for me as the missing of the entrance. The way the rocks were set up in that area it tended to blend in with the surrounding environment. Possibly once this has been played 4+ times people will have a good understanding of how the flow of the map goes, but if you are wanting people playing for the fist time to know that they should look in that ravine then you would need to adjust coloring or add a visible landmark to signify something is different. But once again if it is to be somewhat difficult to find then it is working well and I have no problem with that. that's why I added the And no I don't know how big they are as I tested this one. But I did have a lot of fun and thought that it adds a nice aspect of team play to EL. I will play this on main server when I get a chance.

Hey tested 2 times earlier was a lot of fun. Even though I only got through first two waves as RL called. My thoughts on what I did get through I personally had more fun with Feros then the Des. Chims. They seemed a bit harder then the chims. Not sure if it alternates between the two pry is nice if they do. Second wave after Radu adjusted the melteans was better, they defiantly take team work which is very nice. I also like that the drops were changed to sr's and HE as we could not have possibly carried enough to get us through the whole instance. A thought on the respawning back at the start, might be a feature intended but seemed to take forever to walk back to meet up with group. That combined with the way the terrain was set up around the melteans spawn means that a few times I walked past the entrance and had to walk back even though I was looking for landmarks previously noticed. The first area where the Des. Chims spawns had a visual indicator that something was slightly different in the fact that the green area with mushrooms was there and easy to find. So possibly a similar thing could be done around the entrance to melteans. But if it's intended to keep people in longer to make the time run out then it is working well But if not a tele to a half way point or something might be nice, I wouldn't get crazy with the tele's but if you do progress linearly in the map once you get to 3rd or 4th round would be a very long walk back, but I didn't get that far so I can't speak to that. On the whole had a blast wished I could have finished the whole thing. I took some video that I will try to post tomorrow after it is recoded/compressed for those that were involved. PS: The animator in me says make a cool eerie green sky over the instance

I'm interested as well Quesar. Not sure if I can get on at that time but could a little later but if you get enough go ahead without me Would have gotten on when it was announced this afternoon but was at work and only harvest there....

LOL the United States already has one of the best health care systems in the world. Why do you think people from countries with nationalized health care choose to pay out of their own pocket to come here and receive treatment? Don't believe me look it up those with the money to do so come here.... for the moment. Besides if our government can't get Social Security right what makes anyone think that adding a est. $1.6Trillion(for the next 10 years, {Triple last 8 years in Iraq fyi}) national health care system on top of that will be any better? And as far as Taxes go yes I understand people in some other countries do pay higher taxes, I have lived overseas for over 10 years of my life. So I pry understand better then most American's international issues and what a great thing we have here in the USA. But personally I would rather pay a higher price for something I want and choose, and donate or spend money with places I want to succeed, or pay for the health care I choose rather then see the government take the money I make and tell me where I should spend it or who it should go to. Personally I would prefer Joe Blow down the street go and get his own job and make his own money rather then me support him and his 6 kids through government supported programs. And yes I do live down the street from several Joe Blows who already LIVE OFF THE GOVERNMENT, why enable him even more with a government run health care system.(pretty soon he'll be asking for a free computer to play EL on, and wanting me to come over and sit his kids for free while he does that.) There is enough opportunity in this country you can do whatever the hell you want to make an honest buck. I by no means have a high paying job (my wife and I combined up until last year were considered blow the poverty line!) but I meet my bills every month, paid my own way through college, save some for the future, buy some nice things for my wife and daughter on occasion and I'm happy. I Do Not Believe it is the function of the government to allocate my money. But apparently there is a large group of people in my country who are not smart enough or don't care enough manage their own finances and would prefer the government do it for them. Heck the Colonies broke from England over a total tax of 2.6%...... (and yes I do support local businesses, I do support charities, I do volunteer my time to help the needy)

Here is me serving my Goddess: Zarin LotS of Phantom Warriors: PW's Cool downs all around: Cool down Crazy Ogre Action: Ogres The pics pry would be better on my other puter but are fun just the same

Well.... I think it will be interesting in one year to see what people are saying about Obama. I was thinking about starting my own business and now I might still but I'm afraid of how many taxes I'll have to pay. (and yes even though I would be a small business I would have offered health care for my employees as it is a great incentive for keeping people long term) Anyways If the nationalized health care goes through anyone want to move to a remote island and rename it Seridia? We can start our own gov.

It was great! Loved seeing my Goddess in action. Was laggy at times but I was at work on the server computer...(shhhh don't tell only ninja's get away with that.) If I had been at my home PC pry would have been fine. Also shame on all of you for not knowing Durnam's name!