Dugur

Iirc radu mentioned manu level of around 60 on channel 6. Someone correct if I'm wrong or there's more info on it.

Sorry, I still can. The update changed nothing really for me :< If this was actually on topic I'd ask for clarifications on some part of your post that makes no sense to me All in all, if we don't want to look at the overall picture, why bother? If there actually was something else than omfg no it'd add to the topic and possibly prove those that think pp buying is bad bad to know better. Only person that can do omfg no is radu, rest can debate, and personal whining can be done somewhere else.

Paul said it. Easy to make optimal pvp, too easy to change build. And too much hassle.

Actually with example of rusik, the nearly max oa is false. Still about 2 years for him to reach the max.

Notice also 178 max oa would make maximum of 4 attributes 48. What this means is that there are no more toughness beasts like now, so the underpoweredness of great swords against dragon armour will also be leveled a bit as a result. Also the oh so talked mage build will be more demanding, you actually need to build the char properly. Not just take easy 80 oa and perk up for max ratio.

nvm

But the topic speaks only of bronze sword, not the arrow adding dmg. Ofc it gives penalties, but it slaughters noobs still like a mage slaughters a non MI person.

I never wanted to measure PK skill. Only the chance for a 1 year char to be competitive against the top. As I mentioned earlier, anyone can kill anything. I have witnessed double BoD hit in arena from half the ad person and looted steel set. What was in that vid is to my eyes a mirror with a critical, 148 hp gone in an instant. Restore earlier, use GHP yeeees what not. What we have now is the items leveling the field in PK, and this in my humble opinion blows. You want to kill with your character, then the game is against you partially. Then you kill with magic/summon/rang/eng. It can be elaborated massively, but staying on mano a mano area where your trianed char is the weapon, not the bronze or ubber items, it just doesn't work. Now this is the problem on getting fun PK. We need new chars there. Most say a fighter char is most fun in PK, those are needed. But the poor bastages who come after a year of playing get slaughtered for in no way being able to be competitive 1) because of lvls 2) because of items. I don't see PK too tempting if you are to fight to win with randomness. Ofc survival is a thing for some, but... :x OP here OP there. For fun PK there has to be a way to get more ppl to join the "fun." In my own limited mind more supportive roles from other skills might help, and this would need some motivation for guilds to bother help grow them from _new_ players. Also the problem with skill vs. items needs to be addressed, I'm happy to see bronze is being nerfed and some ubber items did too in past. Is it good for PK if lvls are more relevant in the result of fight?

Lil_boosie pwned anthony in 1vs1... he made even a video with it. Anthony isn't a pp monster, and the same setting would most likely end up more often in different ending if repeated several times. Game mechanics allow anyone to kill anything, the success percentage just varies and since fighting against human there is also randomness in the counterparts performance. This is why the example needs to be able to be repeated with same result. And yes, you can make summon level to kill with acw in a year np. But I do like videos, send it in pm please.

Welcome to future. Shame the knowledge of game mechanics is a wee bit outdated in some areas. Still usable tho, go get em tiger. Show me a person killing a pp monster that knows what he's doing with a char he has trained a year in current system in normal one on one and I'll pull my head out of my arse so you won't mistake my nose for an adams apple anymore.

But the main issue has been omfg mage alts pwn all, omfg you make mage alt in month to kill all EL etc. HaZe knows, he has one. The idea of OP talk of mages started mainly to the frustration from lack of interest/ability/ficus-training in using MI and dying to a "noob OP alt." Me, Sonic, Gohan are/were more lethal and still didn't get it to boil up. Note, adding some magic resistance to an item won't stop you from dying to harm from real pro. One point of res - one point of damage gives you possibly a second longer to react, but since everyone seems to be in console or on their alt mage window when in PK area they die anyway. I'm really looking forward to see how the magic protection spell will work tweaked.

Lorck, what Nienora did was possible those times. In current EL to get to the levels of #1 it's not possible in reasonable amount of work. Top ppl pvp in guild maps for hours, every day for millions oa. If you start new char, buy mid lvl (110-120's) char or train old char you had pro but is now mid lvl, you can make millions exp too, sure. You just can't catch them in a year assuming they bother to train at all. I'm mid 120's and lvling to ~140 takes roughly 150 million exp / att or def, so about 300 million oa exp. Normal speed no sweat and easy to look at is 250k / hour on oa. 4 hours = 1 million. Train 12 hours, non stop, for 3 million a day. kk np. Do it in 3-4 months / year as you please. But... since you mentioned #1... To be in top 5, I'd need to train my att and def +450 million exp. 900 mill oa exp. Million a day is easy, but it takes several years. 12 hours non stop on spawn a day, 300 days. Well, I guess it is doable if you take it to extreme. Why bother enjoying a game. That is if others won't train and you work like a robot. 12 hours on spawn would mean you spend more time than that in game. And cutting the bullshit and speaking of extreme. PvP and use $$ - good partner who is also supposed to get exp oa / hour 400+k. For simplicity call it 400k. PvP 12 effective hours a day = 4,8 million. You can do it in 6 months. Everyone is happy to sit at computer for 12+ hours a day just fleeing attacking fleeing attacking. In past we had TS, and in past pvp was easier. With some build play you could make it so that you get pure def exp and no dmg or breaks at all. Get a partner from opposite timezone and you have 24 hour training afk in guild map. Now the situation is changed a bit, but still some pigholes there. Funny how the names came to top in pairs. So Lorck, yes I agree with you it is possible to train to top. It's good to mention if you add 450 million to a 125 def char you get to mid 150's. To get to fight for the #1 def you still need 250 million def more assuming the #1 doesn't train. Having the levels gets you still whooped. Those top guys also have bought pps. I heard of person with 60+ nexus bought, most turned to pps. It's commonly known TooMass char had 40+ bought pps. _had_. If we count a pp for h-bar @10,5k and nex rem 250k it's ~775k gc. Current conversion rates bring you to... 100$$ ea? To be strong it costs 6k$ for bought pps, and a year of your life. I may have some flaws in my calcs, but it's rough estimate anyway. Smaller level gets to enjoy competitive PK, but ambitious person who wants to be in the top... *shivers* No wonder they quit?

The problem in PK is too small player base. After few weeks of active PK you know all and everyone. Would be no problem if ppl fought against their friends for the fun, but mostly it's just team the person/guild you like the least. Then too many of the PKers build almost EMO status to anything that happens in KF. They get hard on for succesful brod hit on a person that greeted your main opponent. And wtf is it with pki? Most pki in EL is from gangbang/some epic use of gc vs. opponent not interested in competitiveness but fun. Most fun in PK is achieved by being in a guild that all EL hates. I once had decent DPa alt when FURY was still active and famous. With FURY tag there were plenty of ppl to try to "judge" you in arena. Having 2 big sides in PK is ok, but the problem is that the game we play doesn't support teamplay too much. Suuuuure you can support with ranging and even yay remote heal... but that's about it. The PKing side of el is mostly tanks, because there is no other reasonable solution yet. Those mages... have you seen them really in a supporting role instead of one man mass DPS unit? To get to the level of being able to stand against the current KF population, it takes you years. In old times sure you could do it, but after the top has been pvping in the guild maps few million exp / day it takes you... well it's impossible, you will always be an underdog. Does this motivate new players to join the PKing? If we had the area where your a/d drops to certain level, say 120? 130? then you could catch up. Others still have dozens of pps more due to buying them and insane oa but you can't say it's because your a/d is low. Also if we had other skills properly usable in PK we could get new ppl using those skills to _support_ the already existing big sides of opposing tanks. Or you just start casually fighting your friends in KF, drop allies and just have fun. Best time I ever had PKing was in DiE! No emo bullshit involved, if shit was poured on you you just pour it back with some extra. And I wasn't there when DiE! was it's full strenght or OP in any way. Small group and hardly any allies. Either we get some way for new peeps to be useful or start killing all and everyone or get some other solution. Oh, NCa could be ND. It'd bring tons of PK. As long as ppl hate you. Get that aggro level up and a kill message on @6 and there'll be a party, no?

There are still ppl who tested but stayed silent. If there's something to add from your experience, please add it.

It could be interesting if there were EvE invasions. A group of goblins spawn somewhere and they go to other mob area to kill the enemy, and some opposing help spawns there. Don't see it very convenient idea, but has minor potential quest wise (help goblins slaughter those infidel hobgoblins, start from talking to an npc goblin in tavern) Many minor details making it not happen I think, but somewat interesting concept.

Ah, excellent way to advertise Sir_Odies services. All you hear is good feedback, plenty enough to negate the failed one. Now all we need here is the link to the service page and the circle is complete. *ka-ching* ^^

Weeeell, the part where you break armors against higher monsters isn't so true because it's much about your attributes too. Good toughness and suddenly your augs last forever. Also the weapons breaking, well, don't they go when you hit and not when you are hit (unless broded) so higher monster saves you from weapon breaks(?) Ofc the point is nice, but everything can't be put into that. The spawn time matters loads, you can serp double spawns etc. Being told to do something or not to do something limits your thinking in many cases, and if you stop using own brain it's a fail anyway.

It is just sad that the small player base in EL makes illusion of PK maps being safe. You go in PK map, you are supposed to be ready to defend yourself from other players. It doesn't matter if it's a "mage" a noob or what not. Very few check PK maps actively, average PKer goes to KF and holds hands. Now that we have ppl checking maps we get the talk of "mages" and especially alt ones. Stated annoyance is that a person can come invis and harm you to death assuming you are in a PK map unprepared. Why unprepared? Where is the MI or TS? Now someone can come telling they cost too much and a magic user can kill you too cheap. Sure, dig out anything you can to call for nerf or to get safety in PK maps. It is endless BS, this isn't game where everything is equal. Omg tailoring is so unjustified skill. Omg ranging is shit to lvl. Omg I am a fighter and die to opponent using 500gc. I don't see this matter as a mage issue only. It is issue of illusion of safety in PK maps due to too small group of active player killing ppl. Now that we have few more of them we get the talk. It's just convenient they chose to use magic, we make it possible not bothering MI or TS. How about we remove harm from game. Someone blows you up with a mine. Boo-hoo. Someone nails you with arrows. Boo-hoo. Both can be done invis. Ah not to mention the OMFG SUMMONER. Ofc summoner doesn't count because that skill costs, oui? Not to forget my favourite of them all, the invis broder. But heeey, we can ignore most of these because of the cost of equipment? Funny is, I never heard a person whine on PK server for dying from harm. And yes, I can harm 200+ with pots. I am still not a mage but an allarounder. If this game had more players that PK there wouldn't be this talk imo. You could go in PK area and chill out there for hours and still see no one. Now that there suddenly is a threat that can in some cases kill you fast... They could be top a/d with sword+arrow (using arrow with weapon is OP omgno?) with spells and rings, but they can't be arsed from the pvp marathon or yeti queue (or they have alt to do the shit)(not to be taken too seriously). On the other hand, if there was a chance to find someone in a PK area, maybe more ppl would look at them? Just remove the harm spell being castable on players and make Life Drain do damage even if you have full hp. We still have combat spell for PvP, you will suck at it without rationality, and uber magic won't make it OP. Mage issue solved. Then we just wait for the engineers on a killing spree.

You must be joking. Even if you aren't joking, lets see: the guy needs (1)a COL;(2) a great sword; (3) some other armor and cape;(4)a good level in magic, so he wont fail restore. Even so, it would be pretty risky. So yes, COL, great swords, 49 magic, everything a newbie with 20/20 a/d can have easily; Actually the char was 18/7, 21 magic and using augs+iron helm with a cape and a great sword = week or two maximum. Build and items aren't too hard to figure out. The game mechanics just allow it and same stuff turned to PvP instead of PvE has been talked ages ago - any noob can kill anyone, the odds are just smaller.

There's been talk of smite/heal summoned spell changes and I want to offer some other ideas too. Mostly I'm interested in seeing new spells and having magic more supportive in combat. Ofc what isn't broken can't be fixed, so I'm hoping the newer spells are considered and maybe in next 12 months we have something new to play with. Shield: Atm often used in PK, sometimes in a/d training and lots in magic leveling. Just +3 armour. If possible, make dependant on magic and rationality + your armour in use. Using leathers spell gives up to +10 (notice cast by a proper mage), with metal armours less and dragon armours practically nothing (+1). Could be done by checking the armour total you have and spell gives bonus based on the #arm, more armour the less bonus from spell. Why? Metals disrupt the magic making it weaker, as do magical dragon scales. Bonus here being the cost in PK, high lvl armour still has advantage but you can get some protection with leather too. The armour bonus based mostly on magic lvl, rationality having a minor effect. Make the spell duration dependant on mag and ratio both. Harm: Keep as is on player vs monster, nerf a bit on player vs player (different spell for player target? We want fireball ) Also, possibly, add armour modifier - the weaker armour the target uses, the less dmg harm deals. Against metal armours the damage gets considerable bonus, dragon armours no difference, and against leathers much less dmg. Make also casters clothing weaken the spell cast. (Though subjectively, I'm not complaining the current max hits of 200+) Bones to Gold: Atm top players can convert about 1:1, only useful on spawn with lots of bones but hardly worth the effort. Make spell dependant on alchemy and magic together. Add chance of losing the bones on casting and high rationality have bonus on success. Life Drain: Since we are dealing with life, and summoning is the key to meddle with it, add bonus to the spell from summoning. +1 point / 10 summon levels for example. Invisibility: Remove the spell and make potion 100% success. If this is no way ffs!, then make the duration dependant on magic and rationality. Remove buffs: Spell to remove opponents shield/heat/cold/magic/radiation protection/TS and accuracy/evasion. Success rate based on mag and ratio (maybe potion too, but getting too complicated and not making too much sense) Add buffs: Make protective spells castable on others. For example all of the protection spells would be cast like remote heal - you can cast on self or on friend next to you. Shield would have different shield other spell making it worth to have your teams mage cast the shields and spend mana. Now the mage would need to think who to buff and how much mana to save, not just wait for MI to drop. Durations skill+attribute based. (Notice, works with summons too. Give them TS and those smites aren't so easy to do) Camouflage: Spell to reduce light modifier based on ranging+magic and rationality. Spirit link: 2 peeps are fighting, you cast the spell on other one and take the damage he would be dealt. If you move, the link is gone. If they move, the link is gone. Also some % of the damage reduced from casters mana to prevent a mage with 450 restore making too big a difference. The FireBall: Couldn't resist adding to the list. You know how it goes, a ball of fire with or without area damage when hit. Inaccurate but ranging helps to hit.

Wtf? O.o Miracle has happened then while I was away from game Not really. Alive and well would mean when you go in TD you'd meet someone at least after an hour of wait. It's different to tell of loot on @6 to get someone interested to come there to be looted than actually experiencing a real l00tgasm there. It's dead.

Auction for whole set, no helm. Start at 150k gc. Lasts 48 hours starting from this post. Min bid 1k gc.

Hold your horses. First post: Posted Sep 10 2009, 09:28 PM +48 hours. End: Sep 12 2009, 09:28 PM Unless I'm completely mistaken the valid bid at the moment of time closing was Stannards 167k, so congrats. I will not change the time of the auction for it'd ruin the whole purpose of auction.

Those uncapped PK maps could be capped too (enter and you are lowered to certain lvl) Instances and invasions would still keep you happy to be able to use those über lvls? Would work for me at least.

60's mag with maxed ratio does not harm 150-160 iirc. The talk of omfg alt mage is a bit over estimated on dmg side, but that is a minor detail in overall picture. Magpie already said it, MI protects you. Yeeeeees there are MI wards but they aren't really used due to not being worth using unless in TD and the opponent is in good gear and either clueless, cocky or stupid. And the wards are easy to avoid, too easy if you ask me. When we got caps and magic got ratio dependent I was one of the first ones to take the "mage build." I was also one of the first to get some reputation with it. Those times KF was still a drop map and ppl hanged out in NCA. You did not have MI icons either. For few weeks I managed to poof shit loads of bricks in NCA, but then suddenly everyone had MI. At least any decent PKer. Some ppl pmed me to see if I was online and ppl warned other to keep the MI. Point here is players bothered to cast and keep MI. And now? KF is no drop, ppl like the topic starter idle at KF entrance holding hands. On death you lose nothing, most don't even bother to keep MI. On death they are boomerangs coming back. This wasn't the case when you had dropping KF. So why the hell is there talk of mages being unstoppable if there is no stopping attempt? Those "alt mages" who are "trained in a month" (lies) need three hits minimum to kill you. Being in KF with touchyfeely attitude in console mode editing the screenie you took of the oh so pretty thermal serp gets you killed, it doesn't take a mage to do it. A decent fighter with bronze+arrow kills you with same effectiveness even if you have MI on. You don't read a book when you drive a car. Hulda is a nice place for yeti and acw. I have met ppl there that don't MI and the meeting used to be short. Often I didn't even come invis and still killed them. One laddie thought whining replaces MI, he lost few rostos to a mage coming visible and killing him. Result? [PM from Gossip: _carelessyetiserper_ was last logged on about 55 days ago.] So what the fuck? You see someone coming at you mile away - no MI? If player base is careless it's not just "mage class" being overpowering. Those who are the sneakiest will always have the advantage and a mage needs that advantage to be succesful. Everything has their counters, you just need to use them. Mage dealing too much damage for too cheap is amusing because you can get 100% immunity to that damage for half the cost. And if you say they come invis you are supposed to use TS = cheaper than invis. Counters ppl. And to the OP part. Nerf as you please. It has been stated that rationality effect is ridiculously big. Then we have problem of top a/d suddenly dealing mage alt lvl harms. Or is it a problem? Those characters are a result of years training and millions spent on pp buying, they are supposed to be strong. And as mentioned above, everything has their counters. Decrease the effect of rationality. Lets say it together: NERF. If the player base has too big gaps lvl wise you either make a cap to the levels or something else. Example being a map where you enter makes you max 100 a/d and 70 magic for the time you are there. Doesn't remove the pp buying issue but does it not solve the problem of too wide lvl gaps? You still want to lvl to be able to do instances etc, but PKing will get a lot more popular.