robotbob
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Posts posted by robotbob
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Here is a summoning related suggestion that has been on my mind, and I figure
I should "get it out there" while the summoner related poll is going, so...
I know this has been mentioned before, in some form or another, its been
a key issue since they have been released, but here is another idea:
Summon Stones cooldown times aka OMFGBBQ tiger spam. (although spiced tiger meat in a can...nvm)
The suggestion is:
>>> Make the summon skill a factor in stone (summoning) cooldown times. <<<
A fighter(without summon levels) can still use summon stones,but not nearly at the current speed.
It would require actual summon levels in order to 'machine gun' tigers. The min time would be no
lower than it is currently with zero summons creating a base (?5-10 seconds? for max).
I think it would (if the other changes occur) finally seal summoning as its own combat skill,
and perhaps move fighter to fighter combat back into the Smashie Slashy type
It may have been suggested in some form or another, since this topic is now ancient. But
here it is repackaged, since lately we have more newbies than olbies.
IF you agree, you could ignore the bottom text (shit you can just ignore it all
),but here are my counter arguments.
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(1st Counter Argument)
The first obvious one I can see is this:
Well then why not make Potion usage require a potion level? and so on. If you want to make stones
require a summoning one.
While not a bad idea, it would unbalance all players current abilities, since mages\fighters\summoners etc
need these potions as a part of the games core design. IF there was an alternative, then it would be a
reasonable equal. Also, potioners skill is not a part of el combat as it currently stands, but the
summoners skill is however.
In the roleplay sense "Anyone can drink blue happy water from a vial, but it would take a particular skill
to use magical stones quickly in combat"
(2nd Counter argument)
Why not make it require nexus (animal) instead of this?
Well, rich players could just quickly buy 6 animal with hydro and then
its just a matter of buying pps and not working on levels. It would do nothing for
combat balance and restoring pure fighters as fighters.
(3rd Counter argument)
Won't this make summon stone sales decrease?
Yes, but ask any summoner how often they sells stones to players
vs how many times they sell them to npcs...The stones will still be made, and they
would leave the game at the same rate, via the npc. (I had 100 bear stones in my bot
at npc buy price for nearly a year *cough*, npc got em
)-this ends my epic wind baggy suggestion, tyvm please drive thru
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BTW, not sure you realize, but there is an uninvizibilizer ward. If you spend so much for the ACs, then you should get the ward.yes but the mage justs tptr and his in the middle of the summons.. ofc a summoner can't move his/her summons out of the way in 2 secs. the mage will just smite away... the uninvis wards doesnt help much
But isn't that just tactics and countertactics? Mages are pretty vulnerable, most of them have fairly small EMU, many of them (though not all) have low a-d that gets them in underworld in 1 hit from an ACW.
Won't this just eliminate the role of the mage in PK entirely from the moment there are summons in play? And if so, how does that bring more balance? Seems to me it just flips over the balance to the other extreme.
Don't get me wrong, i think it's good if there would be some changes, but it seems to be forgotten that the mages basically have just the magic as their weapon.
Btw.. the ubberest mage ingame has a pretty decent summoning level too ^ ^
To address the question of balance (in my opinion): A summoner build cannot use a spell designed for
his\her use, the heal summons spell (because its dependant on Magic\Rationality). Same for the smite summons
spell, only a pure mage can use this summon spell with any strength. It would make summoners vital to the defense of
their own summons (reasonable idea) and the destruction of the enemies summons (makes sense for roleplay).
It does not 'nerf' (aka weaken) a mages power, because all it requires a mage todo, is level his summon skill.
So:
- Places the summon spells back into the hands of summoners
- Give summoners the ability to defend their summons (Heal)
- Give summoners the ability to fight the enemies summons (Smite)
- Increases the amount of time required to gain the 5 seconds knock-out smite.
- Increases the appeal of the summon skill and removes more items from the game (due to leveling)
- Increases the demand for LEs, animal parts, and warm cozy seats at the gypsum.
- Makes sense roleplay wise (game lore)
- Keeps mages intact without a call to 'just Nerf-em'
IMHO it doesn't damage mages (just little more time to gain) and it gives summoners (some new, due to requirement)
with all the other summoner *love* (The summoner perk, Summons bypass MI based on summon lvl/4, multi strong summons)
moves summoners from mixers to a vital part of el combat. (We now get hybrids, Fighter\Summoners or Mage\Summoners)
Now don't get me wrong, I think mages need some design *love* too. Myself and other have epic novels
dedicated to this topic, but I get the feeling most people are afraid of it. Every other post in regards to mages are
"omfg i was in hulda and invis mage...lower harm nao....not fair i spent 4,000 hours"
You have to admit, its way easier to get 50 magic, than 50 summons. But with a mage high rationality (but low emu)
leveling summons should not be extremely difficult, just would require an attribute commitment beyond (48 will/48Reason).
Now whether Teleport to Range into the middle of a summons group, and not moving, to avoid triggering
the uninvizibilizer ward is an expected counter to it, only Entropy knows. But it does seem reasonable, since they
are triggered by movement, and not moving would be a counter.
- Places the summon spells back into the hands of summoners
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I made a poll
Please let me know if I missed anything or totally fubar'd it.
And thank you Entropy for considering our requests.
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This poll was requested in regards to this >thread<, please read it before voting.
These changes are (hopefully) for balance, and not to overpower anyone.
So please take this in mind in voting, its about summoner VS mage(etc) player combat
balance.
If I missed anything and this poll is FUBAR, please quickly state why and what I missed.
I started it quickly to 'get the ball rolling' but I may have missed something
Thanks to TigerClaw for beginning the discussion.
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Thanks, that help clear things up, pre-poll.
On the smite\heal summon level dependancy, I thought it
would be part of the equation in determing strength, ie need a high
summon level to get maxium power out of it. So magic+rationatlity didn't automatically
create super smites or heals. Makes sense, since its really a summon spell, than a pure mage one.
But I never considered "higher smite resistance based on the master's summoning level"
So I think the poll system will let us do multiple questions, so a last question can be "if you voted yes on smite\heal summon dependant"
- Summoning level determines the power of Smite|Heal summon spells
- Summoning level determines a summons smite resistance based on masters summon level
@Tigerclaw, the problem with implementing both is a minor over powered state, because a high summoner
could have "un-smite-able summons. I don't know I could be wrong. But IMHO if you could get one, id vote for the
top one, it makes those spells summoner oriented ones.
I'll start the poll if no one else does in a few.
- Summoning level determines the power of Smite|Heal summon spells
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Should the poll be an OR, or a AND
These are the suggestions (I think, please someone correct me if mistaken)
- Make all Arctic Chimeran Wolves have True Sight.
- Lose invisibility if attacked or New Arrow that would remove invisibilty.
- Hawk and Falcons have True Sight (or alternative animal?)
- (Remove Poisoning from Invis pots, w/ invisiblity cooldown.) I think this one was conditional with "lose invisiblity" as a balance.
- Make smite summoned dependant on summons levels.
So just a quick question before someone makes the poll, to ensure its done right.
Its it a poll for ONE suggestion to be implemented, or individual support (Yes\No) for each individual ones.
(Sorry for asking this, I started to make the poll to get the ball rolling, but this struck my mind first
) - Make all Arctic Chimeran Wolves have True Sight.
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Sure, make all ACW have TS np.I would also like to see invisibility being lost when you're attacked. Hawk and Falcon could have TS too, or maybe some lower lvl summon like wolf? Optionally a new arrow that would remove invisibility once hit. First thought was using orange dye making them. If these are brought to game, the invis potion poison effect should be removed imo (but also an invisibility sickness added, if you come visible from invis you can't go back invis until 5-10 seconds have passed)
And the idea of making smite summoned dependant on summon level too is one of the best in this thread.
At last some great suggestions in this thread!
Yeah "at last", finally, not like they are the threads consolidated ideas
I fully support all these changes
ty Dugur 
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[snip]...
possible solutions:
-Summons has TS if the Summoner has TS.
-Summons has MI if the Summoner has MI.
-Rationality gets changed pretty plx!!
-Summons has decent Magic Resistance if Summoner has MI.
-Players lose invis once attacked..
oh yes. plx dont say "OP!!" cause its really not.. and if it does come out to be OP at least it OP for a price (4 ELEs & 1 EWE, more then a bronze sword..) ... (unlike some other Skills thats OP and cost only a few DEs & HEs...)
-TigerClaw of GoW
I agree with "player should lose invisibility if attacked" this would allow rangers to "pop em visible"
I see trying to give summons the exact same buffs, the summoner has, for the same cost a problem.
But how about True Sight and Magic Immunity can be cast on other players\summons, like remote heal?
This would give the ability to buff a summons if needed, this gives mages something, while giving summoners a defense.
Ill also repeat my last post:
Perhaps Smite|Heal summon should take into account the caster's summon
level as well. This does solve your issues with the time it takes to become strong enough to
destroy your summons. It would then take many hours of stone making to be able to 5 punch knock em out.
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Here is another idea to maybe help fix the 5 smites to win issue.
Perhaps Smite|Heal summon should take into account the caster's summon
level as well.
So the only mage type that could quickly kill summons, would be a
summoner also. It would also remove the problem of time required for such skill.
I've sit in Arius grinding out bear stones so I know summon levels aren't easy to aquire.
It wont nerf mages, or OP summoners, seems like a reasonable change.
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Warning: epic reply to epic post, don't drop the baby reading it.
afaik EL isnt a "class" game.. and thats why alot of people plays it; it gives multiple possibility. and to reponse to ur "one skill has to beat another" -El despite claiming to be a class free game, it does have classes, even if its the uber battlemage one. Even though you could reset and change class, it still
takes alot of work to change from mixer\fighter\pure mage, etc. You even refer to yourself as a "summoner" and the crux of your anger is
the 'mages'. Sounds just like classes to me.
I did not say 'one skill has to beat another' I said one type of combat, should have a counter for another type of combat. There should never be a
character build type that is strong against all types. We had this prior, one super class, and the days of Toomass\etc, clearing and shutting
down an arena (until he got bored) was horrible. Want it back?
Pkers vs Mages: Pkers ofc has the advantage.. but a Mage has high restores.. they can fight back; they have MD & harm too, once their enemie drop his/her's MI. but point being.. they can fight back! (with Invis pots if necessary) Fighters can do NOTHING to prevent the Mages from casting spells... Mages on the other hand can do nothing to STOP the fighters from fighting/casting MI.Please read my post above on Powerblocks. I gave a suggestion to fix this, this isn't forum combat.
Pkers vs Summoners: Summoners might be able to summon.. but the Pkers are quite strong imo so they can still take on the creatures the Summoners summons..(beside summons has only a tiny percentage of their usual defense) the only creature a Summoner can summon that might prove diffuculties for a Pkers is ACs (which needs group to take down..instead of 1 SINGLE MAGE ALT) & RDs.. Pkers can do NOTHING to stop Summoners from summoning more while the Pker takes out one Creature at a time.. Summoners can do nothing to STOP Pkers from fighting/killing their summons.I'm at a loss to understand this obvious statement:
- You cant stop them from killing them
- And they can't stop you from summoning them.
- There are only 2 dangerous summons.
What are you asking for? unkillable summons ? Reread my post on Powerblocks on stopping summoners.
Only thing that isn't "the sky is blue, the sun rises in the east" is the part about 'omfg mage alts'.
Summoners vs Mages: well this part is kind of straight foward.. most SUMMONERs devote so much time to SUMMONING that they dont spend time TRAINING to be PKERs... and MAGES can train MAGIC AND A/D at the same time.. since they just have to put their points into will/reasoning instead of vitality/instincts.. so when the Summoners are off in the gypsum mines (muling the heavy-est material in EL atm ((not counting Wolf Ores cause Manufacturers dont NEED to harvest them to lvl manu)) and then critical failing ALOT of stones as they mix away days after days after days just to get a summon lvl...)OK:
- Summoners summon apparently and dont train to be pkers.
- Mages train magic and AD at the same time, orly.
- Summoners are mixing and critical fail alot.
Whatever point you aimed for there, I missed it again.
the Mages on the other hand are just training on monsters like any other Pkers and then only thing the mages need to do is cut back an hour of training or so to cast shield again and again and again (single click.. u dont fail & LOSE the ess needed..)-sorry was distracted there for a moment.. was about to start my ranting but will do at the end of the post-
Kinda hard to figure out wtf you are talking about there. maybe the can
sit and get exp, like a summoner?
Summoners can summon & Mages can smite.. the summons are gone... and then there is ONLY the summoner.. and with no summons (since u cant expect to do much if ur summons die by 50s-70s per smite & this isnt just ONE summon.. this is ALL summons in range.. ALL summons i repeat.. without summons a Summoner is consider'd a regular Pker. so did i really spent 1 whole year for 2 secs of fame as a summoner and then be reduced to a regular Pker?? if i wanted that i could've just trained a/d!! (sorry; sorry.. i feel the ranting part of me is about to explode soon..)I have terrible news for you, summoners have not received enough tweaks enough to be lone pkers, you
will need a team. I still think you are insisting on being a One Man Swiss Army Knife thing. My post are
about group vs group and not, why can't we single handed, hold KF?
If in this now midly aggressive incoherent rant you are really mad that you can't single handed Pk as a summoner?
And its the mages fault, your team isn't faster using the game items available to them to stop the mage. And you aren't fast enough
to heal your own summons?
I do suggest rangers be able to reveal invisible people, or a special arrow\bolt that can reveal them. This will give rangers
a duty in revealing stealthers.
- excluding archers cause i know nothing of them... -and btw EL is not a rock-paper-scissor game imo. if u want rock-paper-scissor.. u can always go back to the game u were refering to or WoW
Maybe you just dont understand want I mean, you are asking for a rock to the mages scissors. I know
its a complicated thing to understand (I get to use my
here) Sarcasm aside, it means there is a counter<->countersystem, so for every attack, there is a defense. Its up to the players to win or lose, and not lose to the system.
But it seems you are still stuck on:
"ALL summons i repeat.. without summons a Summoner is consider'd a regular Pker. so did i really spent 1 whole year for 2 secs of fame as a summoner and then be reduced to a regular Pker??"When did summoner become a lone uber pker?, I missed that update.
Up until the number of ACs etc, changes, summoners were mixers, supplying stones to pkers.
The game should require a team and not a one man army, ok?
Hey, I'm on your side for balance, but your post is still not about summoning but "OMFG mage alts" and the time
it takes to make one great is growing smaller by the post. It was 3 months and now its down to 1 month.
Well Gl.
- You cant stop them from killing them
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Sorry for the double post, just going to point something out about rationality.
The obvious reason harm\restore etc is dependant on rationality and not pure magic
levels is:
All high AD fighters also have 70+ magic, if it was purely based on magic levels, then
top fighters would be top mages. The game would be right back to the start, the super battlemage,
before the restore changes.
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I hopes of giving a productive suggestion, besides the omfg its boRk'd, maybe
an idea, to the original problem:
(Disclaimer: I know the original topic is about summons, but summons are melee by proxy anyway)
(Skip to the -short version-, if you feel sleepy
)Perhaps, all that is needed is a magic counter(unlike a ward), but would also work against
melees, with restore as an exception** In the other, closed but outstanding pk game, they
employed a tactic called a "PowerBlock". If you get the drop on a magic user,(pre-emptive strike)
you can 'powerblock' them, to prevent spells for 3-5 seconds.
Although, a magic user would have the ability to 'freeze\root' a melee, as the equal counter. it worked quite well.
(Now with Great Heals doing 80 per now, melee have extra insurance, in cooldowns.)
However, powerblocks were not spells for melee, they were 'special skills'. A player
could trigger, with cooldown, to get a certain effect, and weapon dependant (Axe may
have powerblocks, while a sword may possibly not). This gives other implementation options, besides
more spells melees are dependant on :/
Again, with their system. A lone pkers life span was incredibly short, at the very least you required
a scout, to reveal "stealthers". (aka invisible mages, and rogues) Just IMHO, but group vs group is better
than, lone super character that cannot be killed, because it spent 1,000 hours\$$ to become so.
I don't believe the system is at all derailed, its evolving, to a rock-paper-scissors
complex system.While others still long for the simplicty of EL's early years, the 'old school'
system was stagnate. You will greatly reduce anyones interest in player combat, if you give them
1 option, most people have different styles, I've played both thief\barbarians, one is sneak, the
other is smashie smashie kill.
SHort veRsions:
- New Powerblock\Stun- spell-weapons-effect-??something - to counter mages
- Freeze\Root spell for mages to counter melees
Its reasonable to assert, if a mage was WacK'd with a Titanium Axe, he would be so
stunned he cannot cast anything, except restore** and a mage could freeze a melee, instead of using, disengagement
rings for the same purpose.
So conclusion:
Make a counter <-> counter, and you have balance, then its up to the players timing and actual human planning powers
to time these counters to win, no automated win win.
** - until el has an alternative healing method equal for melees, or healers become a viable part of player combat.
I'll save healers role in another epic post\thread to prevent major hijackz
- New Powerblock\Stun- spell-weapons-effect-??something - to counter mages
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It seems this occurs when the names on the buddy list doesn't match the name of the player. (Casing) In the screenshot Kitential ingame and kitential on the buddy list. I've experienced it again with Mystic_Shadow on the list and Mystic_shadow in game.The function, is_in_buddylist, in buddy.c appears to test case senstive, so that would make it fail.
Perhaps a tolower or a strncasecmp, as in del_buddy function, instead of strncmp.
See:
if(buddy_list[i].type < 0xff && strncmp(buddy_list[i].name, name, strlen(buddy_list[i].name)) == 0)
to
if(buddy_list[i].type < 0xff && strncasecmp(buddy_list[i].name, name, strlen(buddy_list[i].name)) == 0)
I just fast glanced.
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I agree with XenaMT on magic dependance on rationality. On my tests, I harm greater with 40 magic\48 rationality, than I do with
70s magic and 24 rationality. Its hard leaning in the direction of rationality over actually magic levels.
On the other poster insistance on holding me to thing I did not say, again I am
for balance, and if the current mage class can out DPS any other class, then it requires alteration.
I hope you read this one before I'm held to some other broken thing I never supported.
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Actually robotbob, you're totally and utterly wrong. A fighter spends years leveling himself to be stronger, a mage takes a few months and can kill anyone. It's total and utter bullshit. The harm formula is more ridiculous then the damn bronze sword. want OP? level a mage, only takes 3 or so months of your time to kill the top 10 a/d.I am right. However it is not my fault the leveling times version mage and melee aren't equal.
I am completely right in my assertion about pk, it worked for 6+ years shadowbane was played.
Again, don't fault me for the leveling system to be wrong, the concept is about rock-paper-scissors pk is correct.
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And thats how a balanced PK game does and should work.
One type of pker will destroy one type,easily, but another type has an advantage.
It does create planning, and I am glad EL is moving in this direction.
If you created a pk environment, that if you reached the top in your pk skill (summon,ad,range),
you were essentially invulnerable, pk tactics come to a halt.
So my opinion is, have a team member hunting stealth mages, this was the
defacto grp vs grp in shadowbane (scouts, thieves and other rogues) and made
it a outstanding pk environment.
So in conclusion, IMHO,
You are suggesting your summons be both made strong against melee
and magic, steps to an overpowered state.
(PS I've used many giants (from stones) in KF, only to see the slowly smited,
but without it, I could have kept them alive and killing forever)
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Here are book prices for all the plate armors available in game:Book of Iron Plate Mail: 20kgc
Book of Steel Plate Armor: 6kgc
Book of Titanium Plate Armor: 6kgc
Book of Bronze Plate Armor: 20kgc
Book of Red Dragon Mail: 20kgc
Book of Black Dragon Mail: 20kgc
Book of Ice Dragon Mail: 20kgc
So, anyone else find it odd that the Iron Plate Mail book costs over 3 times as much as the Steel and Titanium books and the same amount as the Dragon armor books?
Given that Iron Plate Mail is supposed to be the low end plate mail, maybe this book price can be lowered...
It WAS lowered, it originally was 40k for Book of Iron Plate Mail.
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I didn't vote. I would have voted no, but there isn't such option.
Since I'm aware of custom clothing, but choose not to use it.
Every example ,except for the offical custom capes, were obnoxious and more like graffiti.
I would never use it, but would rather it be an offical source that could be regulated.
To me, it looks like a lost source of revenue for the game, if anyone can set up a server and charge for it.
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On good and funny quote:Complainers of the World Unite
"If you play an online game that you enjoy, there's one surefire way to spoil the experience: read the forums on the official site. There you will find a vast
underworld of lost souls keening their misery onto your screen. A game you thought was entertaining, well-balanced and attractive will be torn apart before
your very eyes and pronounced lacking in every conceivable way."
We are WAY ahead of you!!!
:)http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...;hl=complainers
I did get that link from that particular thread, but I avoided linking a link to a thread,with a link, to a...
Easier just to quote it, and reference link the original.
Slimpickens idea could be implemented client side only, since there is already a "click logo" thing added
to the client. Although that may not help those who wish to avoid the forum, but the alternative, is more
text sent by the server. Perhaps the client could check once a day, download it to a file, and the client can display it,
but then we could get a auto update encyclopedia too
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Its become clear that many people either do not use the forum often enough or not at all, i think it would be a good idea to spam the odd message when we have new updates, this way people are aware whats new and will help get people to use the forum more.I know, so many people do not or barely read the forum. I give
returning players update-run-downs, all the time. Perhaps the lastest changes should
Appear in the text on MOTD?
"Hi, and welcome to Eternal Lands...
*News: ?"
Or #news ?
On good and funny quote:
Complainers of the World Unite
"If you play an online game that you enjoy, there's one surefire way to spoil the experience: read the forums on the official site. There you will find a vast
underworld of lost souls keening their misery onto your screen. A game you thought was entertaining, well-balanced and attractive will be torn apart before
your very eyes and pronounced lacking in every conceivable way."
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Only if we can eat em
It would be nice to see an animal with stats greater than a bear, that places it in the 100ad range.
If not a Bison, perhaps Rhinos? But I'd omit rhino horn trading ingame :X
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I would think it'd be quite hard to pray during a fight...I like elf_ninja's idea.
I disagree. Gimme a club and I'm certain I can get you to pray
While not entirely true, there are
Imagine a viking, asking for Odins help in the middle of a bloody battle?
We already can change full armors sets in combat? If you cannot mumble a request for
divine intervention, whilst someone tries to kill you, then how can we completely swap
out Plate armor, while swining a sword and casting magic?
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Yeah....EFE price is practically 0 or around that. The chance of them coming in the game might have decreased some simply because people gave up on the idea of trying to get one after making over 100K FE and not getting any EFE.3 of my guildmates decided to get the artificer perk a couple of months ago. Artificer is mainly useful for ELE and EWE.
Compelled to point something out.
He stated the "chance' of making an EFE, through *luck*, is nearly or at zero.
I assume you missed typed "price" and meant "chance'.
Entropy did stat he made EFE chance to zero for 2? weeks once, so I doubt its reasonable to speculate on
their actual chance. He asked us in a poll, many moons ago, if he should publicly announce rate changes,
and iirc it was overwhelming toward silence. It caused items price to inflate, and mass hording.
@topic
Perhaps something that requires both capes and a quest requiring certain skills levels to complete.
Kill a dragon, have 80 alch, make a CoL, and so on, at least it would stop purely buying it, and requiring a
player to actually earn it ingame.
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For the person that mentioned an ankh.....try squinting. It is a cross. Nothing to do with Christianity, but it is a cross.For the person posting, I never said it did, ...try reading.
I mentioned there are 6 objects in that link, that have other affliations, piracy for one.
Again, how hard is a concept to keep El loreplay, within its designs of fantasy roleplay and keep RL associated symbols out of it.
I'm for you idea, and I am voicing concerns that would shitcan it, try appealing to the general audience.
As for the idea of having a temple on every map, that is about the same thing as having a holy symbol that you hold onto when you pray or silently praying without one.Its not the same thing, because it would require a change to all the maps in the game.
While a new item creation is much simplier to implement, ask for things that could be added, and not
overkill that will be rejected due to time.
As for people getting blessings all the time. Would you expect your God to grant your wishes every time that you ask for anything? It could have a chance of failure. It could even have a chance of the god being annoyed with the request and giving you a negative result.Well a mortos blessing takes 15 mins to 'wear' off so its reasonable that its already time based.
I do see the possiblity of say a negative reaction from a chaos creature like Mortos, but not Aluwen for instance.
It can't be so negative no one will risk it.
I don't know why everyone is obsessed with stones in this game. What next? Requesting Radu to add kidney stones to the game so your character can double over in pain? Collect 10 and play a game of marbles?Magical stones are part of EL, the are part of the role\lore play of the game, Its not a terrible
request for a new magical item to remain under the loreplay of the game. Why ffs are you adding nonsense
straw mans in your own suggetion?
Summoner Related Changes
in General Chat
Posted · Report reply
With harm, one at a time, like everyone else. Imagine if harm was an AoE
(Area of Effect)
Or level summon to earn the ability to splatter them all in 5 seconds. Its the fact the current
smite\heal gives that ability for free without being equal in effort. (Effort in reaching the level
to summon ACWs for instance)
Original issue was 60 damage per summons, per smite in a 16x16 square, 1 second per spell out of combat, ACWs have 300 hp
equals 8? dead ACWs in ~5 seconds. With summon levels required for such a massive AoE, it balances the effort required for both
(To make ACWs, and to flat out destroy them in seconds) As makes summoner vs summoner battles a real possiblity.