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Advice for Newb Instance


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#1 Yggdrasill

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:51 AM

Hey everyone, I was just wondering how I could be successful for a Newb instance, meaning what build should I work towards to be a great fighter that can assemble a team and fight in the newb instance.

Example: Attributes / Armor / a/d / etc.

Thanks :)

Also, other instance levels (almost pro and pro) would also be appreciated if you have any opinions on good "builds" for those instances.

#2 Raytray

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 04:02 AM

See...
http://el-wiki.net/B...e_noob_instance
http://www.eternal-l...showtopic=51581


And for other levels.
http://www.eternal-l...showtopic=55236

#3 nathanstenzel

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 04:45 PM

Hey everyone, I was just wondering how I could be successful for a Newb instance, meaning what build should I work towards to be a great fighter that can assemble a team and fight in the newb instance.

Example: Attributes / Armor / a/d / etc.

Thanks :)

Also, other instance levels (almost pro and pro) would also be appreciated if you have any opinions on good "builds" for those instances.

You need to be one of three body builds:

[A.] Someone able to either take on 6 critters at a time and manage to restore infrequently enough to not use up all of the SR and HE supplies. This means massive toughness, defense and dodge ability. This is what they call the tank.
[B.] Someone that can actually hit the opponent and hopefully frequently.
[C.] Someone who could justify their being there while being useless in actual combat. A really efficient mage or summoner.

Summons are often complained about because they disturb the "tanking" process and attack other summons. Phantom warriors can be useful on the two dilimacs at the end, but I do not recommend other summons. Phantoms will not be targeted for attack and you can judge how much damage they are doing by the amount of life they lose from the dilimac's mirror skin. They will subtract defense points from the dilimac since dilimac do not have "there is no fork".

Perhaps more important than your character's build is your ability to cast restore without failure (magic 49 recommended), your ability to use quickslots via ALT# and CTRL#, your ability to focus and your common sense.

I believe all of this is accurate, but people love to complain about my posts, so feel free to ask around.

#4 Raytray

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 12:55 AM

You need to be one of three body builds:

[A.] Someone able to either take on 6 critters at a time and manage to restore infrequently enough to not use up all of the SR and HE supplies. This means massive toughness, defense and dodge ability. This is what they call the tank.

I'm not sure when you would ever find it a good idea to engage more than one creature. At most a tank should be able to handle at least one, maybe two for a brief period.

I believe all of this is accurate, but people love to complain about my posts, so feel free to ask around.

Why is this little tidbit necessary? It's not as if I follow your every post. People quote and attempt to correct you because they feel you are wrong and it should be corrected for the original poster to have the correct answer.

If I went around proclaiming that Aliens have invaded and everyone should just go hide/etc, wouldn't you correct me to better inform the world rather than let disinformation spread?

Edited by Raytray, 07 May 2011 - 12:56 AM.


#5 nathanstenzel

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 06:55 PM


You need to be one of three body builds:

[A.] Someone able to either take on 6 critters at a time and manage to restore infrequently enough to not use up all of the SR and HE supplies. This means massive toughness, defense and dodge ability. This is what they call the tank.

I'm not sure when you would ever find it a good idea to engage more than one creature. At most a tank should be able to handle at least one, maybe two for a brief period.

I believe all of this is accurate, but people love to complain about my posts, so feel free to ask around.

Why is this little tidbit necessary? It's not as if I follow your every post. People quote and attempt to correct you because they feel you are wrong and it should be corrected for the original poster to have the correct answer.

If I went around proclaiming that Aliens have invaded and everyone should just go hide/etc, wouldn't you correct me to better inform the world rather than let disinformation spread?

You might not find it a good idea to engage more than one creature at a time, but that is a tank's job. They must be a magnet for the instance monsters to the weaker folk don't get clobbered. Your post makes it sound like you have never been to one. If a tank can't handle multiple critters, they won't be allowed to be the tank.

You failed to ask around and instead complained about my post. You fail. Nothing personal. I just didn't want replies to my post. Alot of fighter type forum trolls love to assault every forum post I make regarding combat and I got tired about it a long time ago.

#6 Raytray

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:20 PM

I've never been to an instance, yup.

A tank's job is not to engage several creatures. I've known one or two tanks to even have ICD because the idea of it is to engage one at a time. If you get into a large group, it's not very easy to get several creatures attacking the tank, and for the team to engage those creatures, effectively in a timely manner so they stay attacking the tank.

#7 Miiks

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:10 PM

You might not find it a good idea to engage more than one creature at a time, but that is a tank's job. They must be a magnet for the instance monsters to the weaker folk don't get clobbered. Your post makes it sound like you have never been to one. If a tank can't handle multiple critters, they won't be allowed to be the tank.

You failed to ask around and instead complained about my post. You fail. Nothing personal. I just didn't want replies to my post. Alot of fighter type forum trolls love to assault every forum post I make regarding combat and I got tired about it a long time ago.

Sorry but you fail hard, again.

Tank isn't mean to take multiple mobs on him at same time. It's not smart to run in the middle of the monsters and wish they all attack the tank.

Few points:
1) It's impossible to know which player the mob is going to attack. If there's group of people killing a monster, other monsters can attack anyone. Not always the tank. Practically tanking 6 monsters, as you said, at same time would mean tank running in the middle of the monsters, waiting until he gets 6 on him and after that fighters come and kill them. Not very smart and practically impossible.
2) The main idea of the tanker is to be able to tank the monster (only 1 at a time if possible) while others are making damage. It saves HE and SR + Skilled tanker with good build has smaller risk to die.
3) Raytray has 100x more experience from instances than you so it would be just better to stfu.

I used to have tank build and I remember tanking more than 2 monsters at same time very rarely. Mostly, if more mobs attacked, we just fled / dissed and waited until they split up again and we'd be able to attack only 1-2 mob safely. (of course the ideal situation was to kill them 1 by 1, but normally I was able to tank 2 so it wasn't a huge problem)

Edit: It's pointless for you to cry how fighters always attack your posts. You simply give false information so of course people who know things better, will correct you. You're not a fighter, you're not a tank, why do you think you know things better than us?

Edited by Miiks, 07 May 2011 - 09:25 PM.


#8 Korrode

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 06:37 AM

Indeed Nathan, as you've already been told, the tank is not meant to purposely engage a bunch of mobs, it hugely increases death risk and HE/SR usage.

It's 'nice' if a tank has TINF or whatever and can handle multiple mobs if s/he happens to get multiple on, but they shouldn't be purposely doing it.

Your posts regularly get attacked for no reason other than because you continually post bad advice/information.

#9 nathanstenzel

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:08 PM

Rewind, folk.....

[A.] Someone able to either take on 6 critters at a time and manage to restore infrequently enough to not use up all of the SR and HE supplies. This means massive toughness, defense and dodge ability. This is what they call the tank.

This does not mean that the person needs to do this. They just need to be able to survive it if they get attacked by 6.

BE ABLE TO <> DO IT

Edited by nathanstenzel, 09 May 2011 - 05:57 PM.


#10 Raytray

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:09 PM

You might not find it a good idea to engage more than one creature at a time, but that is a tank's job. They must be a magnet for the instance monsters to the weaker folk don't get clobbered. Your post makes it sound like you have never been to one. If a tank can't handle multiple critters, they won't be allowed to be the tank.



Rewind, folk.....

[A.] Someone able to either take on 6 critters at a time and manage to restore infrequently enough to not use up all of the SR and HE supplies. This means massive toughness, defense and dodge ability. This is what they call the tank.

This does not mean that the person needs to do this. They just need to be able to survive it if they get attacked by 6.

BE ABLE TO <> DO IT

You do a job.

Also: Miix explained why a tank will never be attacked by 6 unless the rest of the team is afk or something.

#11 nathanstenzel

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:14 PM

Sounds to me like else than you guys misreading A, there were no other disagreements.
The fact that you only attacked A, which you misread, means the other stuff suggests that, at least.

Any other disagreements?

#12 TuDaeFadda

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:04 AM


Hey everyone, I was just wondering how I could be successful for a Newb instance, meaning what build should I work towards to be a great fighter that can assemble a team and fight in the newb instance.

Example: Attributes / Armor / a/d / etc.

Thanks :)

Also, other instance levels (almost pro and pro) would also be appreciated if you have any opinions on good "builds" for those instances.

You need to be one of three body builds:

[A.] Someone able to either take on 6 critters at a time and manage to restore infrequently enough to not use up all of the SR and HE supplies. This means massive toughness, defense and dodge ability. This is what they call the tank.
[B.] Someone that can actually hit the opponent and hopefully frequently.
[C.] Someone who could justify their being there while being useless in actual combat. A really efficient mage or summoner.

Summons are often complained about because they disturb the "tanking" process and attack other summons. Phantom warriors can be useful on the two dilimacs at the end, but I do not recommend other summons. Phantoms will not be targeted for attack and you can judge how much damage they are doing by the amount of life they lose from the dilimac's mirror skin. They will subtract defense points from the dilimac since dilimac do not have "there is no fork".

Perhaps more important than your character's build is your ability to cast restore without failure (magic 49 recommended), your ability to use quickslots via ALT# and CTRL#, your ability to focus and your common sense.

I believe all of this is accurate, but people love to complain about my posts, so feel free to ask around.






( A ) I can understand where (A) hails from, you remember Orick tanking. But, and this is the clincher, Orick isn't a standard instance tank. He's a most exceptional one. You won't find epic-tanks in every instance you run. As a fighter, if you're spoilt by the presence of an indestructible saviour to rescue you from your mistakes, then you aren't a good fighter at all.

The job of a tank is simply to hold a mob until fighters/rangers finish it off. It is quite possible that the tank in an instance is actually the strongest melee combatant, but takes on the responsibility of holding the mob because others in the team, while able to deal copious damage, don't have enough mana/toughness/reaction/low ping to be able to handle tanking. Similarly it is possible that a comparatively weaker fighter-build is tanking, simply out of the assurance that long before their mana runs out, the others in the team will have cut down the mob.

Add to all this the fact that it is nearly impossible to replicate the epic-tank builds from scratch since the crit fixes, and you're faced with the fact that there are only attrib-tanks to be made now, level-tanks are a thing of the past.




( B ) The demands from a fighter are considerably higher of course, maintaining the same gold standard from A, a fighter should be someone who can solo 2x second-wave mobs with a FA on his back. While cracking small jokes. And watching porn in a side-window.



( C ) While there are a select few summoners of sufficiently high sum level and sufficiently low A/D to be able to summon their instance to death, the costs involved in doing so are prohibitive. A mage, no matter how strong, will make poorer usage of emu than a melee group. A talkative companion, however, is most welcome.

Edited by TuDaeFadda, 10 May 2011 - 02:19 AM.


#13 TuDaeFadda

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:32 AM

Hey everyone, I was just wondering how I could be successful for a Newb instance, meaning what build should I work towards to be a great fighter that can assemble a team and fight in the newb instance.

Example: Attributes / Armor / a/d / etc.

Thanks :)

Also, other instance levels (almost pro and pro) would also be appreciated if you have any opinions on good "builds" for those instances.




I notice this question got sidetracked.


1. You can 'start' 60-80 instances at circa 65/68 A/D with ogre-training attribs. The minimum equipment would be a steel set, a tit shield, a CoL, a moon med, a JS and a cape of some sort. If you can't afford a NMT yet, or have the perk, for a fighter the BP cape is best, and for a tank the Mirror cape. Keep your magic level higher than 40.

2. The ideal fighter build for a 60-80 instance is a fighter with 75+ A/D, with approx attribs 24-28/44-48/12-16/4/12/12. I realise this build may be difficult to attain without parallel skills besides A/D at a high level, and low nexus points (Or some neg perks), but again, it's possible to attain. Ideal weapons would be the Halberd or Radio Rapier/Thermal Serp (if and only if you can use them in conjunction with arrows and hit reliably, which is rare at this level). Use any dragon set for zero negs and low weight, couple them with an RDHoLaM for the extra mana and armor rating. Take a gath med so that no bag-picking delay occurs. Keep your magic level above 49 for a failsafe restore.

Edited by TuDaeFadda, 10 May 2011 - 02:36 AM.


#14 TuDaeFadda

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:05 AM

What you also need to realise is the concept of "the right rod for the right dog". There is no one-size-fits-all weapon for any instance. The weapon you choose will depend on the defence level and attribs/astro of the mob being killed.

Taking the 60-80 as an example: -



1. first wave is feros/DCW. DCW has a good defense level (100), but low hitpoints. Here you would be better served to use a JS for the added accuracy than a halberd. Mob dies very quickly anyway, and just in case you get singled out, the added accuracy and the presence of a shield might save you some grief.

2. Melteans form the second wave. They have moderate def level. At starting attribs, a JS is essential. Later on, you might be able to hit well enough with a scythe, and eventually with a halberd too. (This is also the most difficult wave to survive, because of the ambushing tendency of the mobs, and their geographical location. Exercise caution.)

3. Scarbas form the third wave. They have pathetic defense. You will hit with anything, every time. Just go for the biggest weapon you have.

4. Yetis! Def level 125! Not recommended to melee these at all, better spend some emu to bring a bow and PK arrows. Pin, range. or tank and range if all else fails. In the worst-case scenario of you-have-to-melee, a fighter should use the radio rapier, due to its crit to hit modifier of 17, the highest of any weapon in the game. Couple with BP cape if possible.

5. Dilimacs. Moderate defence. Same advice as with melteans. May they drop well for you.




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