Infamous

+1. And especially the last sentence should imho silence all those who whine about someone supposedly or actually being afk. Active melee people get their reward not only in XP but also in gc. Active mages and rangers might get a share, but also get their additional XP by actually using their skill. Heh so i just stop doing invances as a tank - as i said i burn quite lot of HEs/SRs/eva pots and VERY rarely get anything. Applying your logic i should stop tanking and instead just do most damage i can so i get the drops and "get rewarded more then someone who kills less" ? That said, i don't mind tanking and burning stuff, but then when i see people in augs standing around and only one fighter attacking the monster, why should i bother ? Problem with augs is that the lower your armor, the higher chance you'll get attacked by the monster when you join the fight. well don't bother then. the way i see it invance is just an invasion around your levels with alot of exp at the end, yet with a regular invasion i don't see anyone complaining about people not helping. even if there is a reward like sun tzu or something by radu. You go in, kill stuff and get drops, sometimes rares and the extra exp from killing things. and on top of that a big exp bonus for completing it. I don't think the dev team should be guaranteeing us a win by directing people what to do and what to wear, after all an occasional loss no matter why (people not wearing good armor, not helping enough or gatekeeper dies) is what keeps it interesting and encourages you to try harder next time. might aswell start setting waypoints for people to follow, like the tutorial quest to go to tavern. and put a red arrow on mobs you need to kill to ensure everyone does what everyone else does and get a guaranteed way to get your 200k a/d exp bonus. or just skip all that and give everyone in range who is online the exp bonus the moment invance is announced.

lol? WoW has no such things, i think what you mean is raids, which are organized by your guild. if you don't get invited it's a social thing, and mods don't interfere. which is exactly what this situation is, a social issue between people begging developers to direct everyone like (P/M)uppets. should remain a social issue between people, if people can't work together they don't deserve the exp period. let them figure it out among themselves. to what extremes are we gonna go to ensure everyone does and brings the same to invances? if a majority has 20 bought PP's are we gonna set a requirement of atleast having 15 bought PP's to enter invance? after all PP buyers contribute more.

And if everyone did that, that's the end of invances. Yes it's a game but the point of this mini-game within the game is to be pushed beyond normal in a combat situation. If combat isn't fun for you, you shouldn't be going. If you don't want to fight, you shouldn't be going. If you want to stand around and watch others earn your experience for you, you shouldn't be going. not really, so what if people go in augs? they might not finish the invance? oh dear. they won't get exp and will learn for next time, if they want exp go help more and bring better armor next time, repeat untill invances do result in a win. does it have to be enforced? no, people will keep nitpicking on people they don't like no matter how much you define the rules, the more defined the more complaints keep coming in because you add more reasons to the rules for people to abuse eachother. A wise person once said something along the lines of: You don't need an invance every day, not the end of the world if you don't go every day. not an exact quote but it's the same point. you don't need to go invances every day, invances shouldn't be a guaranteed win and certain exp. you don't need the huge exp bonus every time a invance is given. (kinda surprised i'm the one saying it and not you O.o) sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. the development team has no business in setting up ways to guarantee a win. why don't we just ask for an invance and get the 200k+ exp the moment it is announced? although i do agree, obviously afk'ing and not helping at all shouldn't be allowed. although someone who avoids strong monsters and does help out on other things still contributes. and i'm fine with that. sure it sucks if you lose and it's easy to blame someone who has less armor/stats, but still i'd rather spend 100k more then someone else and get an occasional win or loss, then have the development team enforce/direct your every movement in order for the invance to win, just takes all the fun out of it if you have to be carefull every time you go worrying about stepping on someones toes. edit: btw should add if you help more/kill more you get more drops and chances for rare drops, so you get rewarded more then someone who kills less anyway.

Viper is right, i've been to invances too where if for example you refill mana cause you got 0 left you quickly get accused of not helping. or if you need to dis/run you get accused of doing it on purpose to make someone die. sometimes you can't attack because it would switch away from tank so people don't want you to attack it, but others think it's cause you are lazy/not helping and might abuse you. i saved a deathbag a few times and quickly get questioned at/near gate of why i'm there, sure i could drop the bag and go back, but then risk being accused of bagjumping cause someone else might take it in the meantime. in all honesty, people need to grow the fk up and stop whining about everything, in the end it's a game and everyone gets exp at the end, so what if you spend a little more sr/he then someone else, or a few extra arrows. people have different reasons to not attack a monster, or not to bring expensive gear. i've been in lower invances in my dragon armor/rdholm etc restocking lots killing the boss type monsters for that invance so low lvl stuff would remain for lower level people and i don't care seeing someone in augs, or someone standing around looking at me killing something. in the end my/your extra effort is what gets you the exp, your whining/moaning and complaining isn't. keep invance as it is and only go for people obviously afk'ing in a remotely safe spot

So with recent invance trouble, having figured out it would be impossible to automatically punish people for being afk for x amount of time due to gatekeeper, or theres only 2-3 mobs left. So an alternative would be possible. people going into the map get their names recorded, and how long they are afk. afk timer would reset if they attack anything. results could be shown on a webpage where only mods have access to. from there they could check which person is afk for what amount of time, how much monsters are left and how much time left. so from that info they could realistically say "this person is obviously Afking" or "this person is afking, but theres only a few left so he/she might not have found anything/no space to attack" and then possibly deal with them after the invance. not only does a mod have to be there personally to babysit, go on rumors etc, but after a few time-offs for certain people from invance, or maybe ban for a day, 2nd offence 2 days etc. people will learn they can't go afk without mods knowing. if this is possible it might be a good solution to our afk problem, don't know how hard it would be to make but it might be worth a shot. 2nd suggestion i've seen in WoW battlegrounds. an option to report afkers by right clicking their name and select "report afk" option. if enough votes come in the person can be zapped out automatically. this would be open to abuse ofcourse, but like most things abusing features in a way they aren't meant to be is punishable. after a few cases of people reporting someone afk for no reason he/she might get punished and that would prevent people from abusing it in the future. ofcourse they might not be perfect solutions, but they give the option to single out people. it's always easier to deal with a few people breaking rules then have a whole invance team of people argueing, getting an invance time-off, or get new rules put on and start the cycle again. new rules will just have people try and circumvent them, and will result in finger pointing which isn't that accurate to determine if they really did something wrong. anyway feel free to tear it to shreds, add to the suggestion, change something so we can work something out that permanently solves it.

in my opinion radu is right about helping, kill stuff but don't be reckless about it, no need to fight things way over your level. gear on the other hand, i think steel set would be minimum. whether or not you have ice dragon if you got a steel set and want to use it go for it. setting a gear requirement of "if you have better use it" will just lead to people saying "oh but that guy has ida set" and mods will have to confirm it somehow. steel set isn't hard to obtain, and still a very good set of armor.

well which spawns are at or in the same map as an open storage? gl moving double FC from their spawn in some places to ida/PV storage, or double yeti's from irin caves to storage ^^ or even closed storages, there are no good spawns in storage maps. and getting it there would take forever anyways, and no guarantee it stays there unless you want to scre training waiting for it to go to storage everytime it walks away ^^ but that's an entire different suggestion, let's just focus on aredhels

flocks of Casty's \o/ sounds good though, btw it would be nice if we got changing spawns, a monster runs away from it's spawn and where ever it dies that will be the center of it's new spawn radius. so you'll never be training at the same spot all the time.

problem with using the #abuse feature though is mods can't go to the invance themselves and participate, they'll have to go in godmode and look around at gate see if the #abuse is true. and they have to be in that invance range to be able to check, I think Aislinn told me that once. for example a 110 a/d mod can't go to invances below like 40-60, 60-80, 80-100 and the one above their levels, 120+. plus an abuse resulted in Me_ow being pulled out of the invance, and later it turned out that according to Radu, Me_ow didn't do anything wrong. in the discussion that followed people said she wasn't doing anything, while others said she did help out. Social problems contribute to that, enemies are more likely to #abuse eachother, while both parties have friends to back eachother up by either confirming the #abuse or to defend the #abuse'd person. so in order to get rid of these uncertainties and conflicting stories from people it is better to code a solution that keeps track of who enters and who has been idle for a certain period of time. easy solution, mods don't have to be there in person to keep an eye out, and they can participate in them themselves. plus they'll have a reliable source of information to prove who has been AFK and who hasn't

yes Greyelf, i think that was clear from the first post. what i meant was he only got 18,000 from storage while there was 180,000 in there. but did not bother checking where the rest went. seems silly. if you know you got 180k in sto and only withdraw 18k, the rest must still be in storage, that's the first place you check in that situation. but that's just me, does everyone else ask mods to check their storage for them instead of re-checking their own storage?

you think you transferred 180k but only got 18k, so what you must have thought is "where the fk did the other 162k go?" and you did not bother checking the storage afterwards to check if it was still there? Saxum is right though. but it's amazing you might have lost 162k, and did not bother opening your coins section in storage to double-check O.o

everyone scouts, but they attack things they find. or announce on channel if they need help, then attack with a group. healers do something, so in the logs they wouldn't show up as not doing anything. Guard, as in gateguard? this would have to be made clear to Aislinn or other mods who is on gate, and if he/she switches with someone.

after doing some more research and talking to someone familiar with the EL server it is possible to keep a log file with information about who enters an invance, and if they don't attack anything. It would eat up some disk space though, not sure how much space it takes or how much space there is. 2nd if it's done right there should be no burden on the server and/or lag for people. So the only question that remains is, is Radu interested in this and can he code it? Aislinn would be able to review the log created after an invance, and deal with rulebreakers that way w/o having to babysit or stalk people invisible. same goes for other mods ofc, rather than babysit they can just enjoy invance and deal with Afkers afterwards. server keeping track of who enters and doesn't attack for X amount of time is more accurate then rumors and fingerpointing, more effective then wasting time stalking people. you can only follow 1 at a time while the rest will be dodging the bullet. only downside i can think of up to this point is the log eating up disk space, but then again we don't know how much space is left, and logs can be deleted after a day or 2. another downside, but thats up to mods if they consider it a downside or not is that it would take up some of their time reviewing the log.

correct me if i'm wrong, but it shouldn't be hard to code methods to give information. how do you find out if someone illegal multies? or which IP is on which char? how does PK central know who died? or how does lenny know which map he is/was in when he broadcasts a message with a mapname or playername? or how radu knows how much people do the tutorial. how many players are logged in and are connecting? if all that is possible, why cant the game track which player entered the invance and doesn't do anything for an amount of time? and ofc broadcast it to the mods. or for convenience have it broadcast to a website where mods log on to where this information gets recorded. so after an invance mods take a look, see who didn't do anything and punish them then by giving a personal invance ban. that way mods can still enjoy invances without being interrupted having to switch to babysit mode in the middle of the invance. but rather check afterwards if i got this right it's just a matter of getting info from the server, and make a command to broadcast it? much like how people send a #IL command to get info about invasion monsters left from the server? anyone knows enough about the server to confirm if it works like that? or if it is even possible to have the server track who enters invances and what they do?

I thought about this but I see two problems: 1. People taking turns hopping on and off of it, to get the timer immunity. 2. If it was coded so only x amount of time on the tile granted the immunity, that doesn't allow for the gatekeeper to get off to let people through, or to fight anything if needed. haven't thought about that, auto abuse reports seems the best way then. that or cap the amount of people in an invance, or maybe even let them make their own teams? not only would you have just friends in the team instead of placing ~50 friends and enemy's in 1 map and let them try and work together. But also have more teamwork, if someone doesn't help out good it's unlikely they will get invited back Would save mods alot of time having to be there personally all the time stalking people to make sure they don't do anything, it can't be argued with if the report could show the amount of time a player hasn't been in combat during invance. only downside that i can think of is that there'd be spam of #abuse reports for mods for some time, untill people get the message that you can't go afk w/o being punished. that and coding might be difficult? but if you can track who people trade with, or who tries to log on which char it wouldn't be impossible to track who attacks something during invance and who doesn't.

exp based on damage would be a problem for gatekeeper indeed, and i believe that was the reason not to go with that suggestion. although if it'd be possible to use walk-able tiles to determine whether or not the exp you get is based on damage that could work. in the whole invance you get exp based on your damage, but if you'd be on that 1 gatekeeping tile you'd still get a fixed amount of exp like right now. best example i could give is civilization 2? if anyone knows that game its a turn based strategy game with maps made up of 100s of tiles each one being different, some you can move 2 turns, but on mountains 1. some tiles got different resources then others etc. if that's possible there i can imagine certain events being possible on certain tiles in EL and on some not.

[Aislinn @ 6]: You can summon me with a troll too. Oh looky, I have choices. -that was to st arcan [Frantic @ 6]: summon a troll with a troll? O.o made the comment in reference to mods, because seems whenever they got to warn/mute/boot someone, theres mostly a personal comment attacking the person. like earlier where Maxine called me a toddler. which ofc made me upset and shortly after that i got a boot. and now i got an indefinite boot cause of this. i realize i shouldn't have said what i said and i apologize for it. just would be nice if the moderators could easen up on threats and insults aswell, inciting argueing/flames or insults and then punish your opponent with powers isn't the way to go. it just sets bad blood between people which you'll eventually end up banning.

and IP unbanned? ^^

After talking to aislinn a while I realize some mods got upset/tired of things I said. I admit sometimes that was the intention and sometimes they were honest mistakes that got taken the wrong way/blown up by either me or the other party. (invasion with maxine, the 1 time "hi burn" for example) I apologize to mods in general for things i said on purpose just to get a response, i'll try and refrain from doing that in the future.

good luck tomorrow yethq, just don't start cooking meth afterwards D: Breaking bad ftw

I see no deleted post by you from this thread. first one could've been not submitted right, but a second time after making sure it did get posted right? easiest way to get the buttons changed is through submitting a patch and see if radu likes it

it could be changed to ctrl-S if that's not used yet. so you don't accidently alt-x but rather ctrl-x if you make a mistake. which afaik doesn't log you out. Edited to leave out a mistake ^^

Taken from Radu's EL blog "The numbers are not too bad, but I want to see if I can improve them a bit, especially the percent of people starting the tutorial, and the percent of how many finish the first objective" problem with this is, if you want people to start/finish quests you have to have markers marking which NPC has a quest for you. it's a universal thing and every player will be looking for marks on an NPC to quickly see if they got a quest, if not they just pass by. and with that i'd suggest a huge questline that has a purpose other then gc/exp. tutorial only goes so far, so it would be nice if a quest guided newbies to "hotspots" to train at certain levels, so they know what creatures to start at which levels. other then that connect quest npc's, make quests go to other NPC's that have quests for you, so people don't run out of them quick, rather then finishing a quest for 1 npc and then have nothing left cause along the way you didn't pick anything up. last thing - It would be nice if the text that starts a quest at a certain NPC differs from all the "random banter", sometimes you read the random things wasting time not getting a quest and when you get one you don't notice/skipped the texts too quick out of frustration. Just some things to make questing more player friendly and fun. better to have in-game mechanics developed by Game devs point to quests and stuff rather then Choris's website right?

you suggested i was ip banned cause of it, selective reading? don't hint i got ip banned for that, and then suggest i know why. so i got IP banned for knowing what someone else did? :\ Anyway ty for your time, and for whitelisting Tyra.

you assume too much, after the boot i played another game and went to bed, just to wake up and find out there was an IP ban. yes i know there was char creation spam and trouble on channel 6, but that doesn't mean i was part of it, i only found out because St_arcane posted about it on unoff forums.