robotbob

Hmm, you are absolutely correct sir. The only thing they would do, is die and drop a bag at the mages location.Although a swarm of them attacking an invisible something would be a funny sight to see. Maybe that would be helpful by itself. But its use in hunting invis rats could lead to an unexpected side effect.

With harm, one at a time, like everyone else. Imagine if harm was an AoE (Area of Effect) Or level summon to earn the ability to splatter them all in 5 seconds. Its the fact the current smite\heal gives that ability for free without being equal in effort. (Effort in reaching the level to summon ACWs for instance) Original issue was 60 damage per summons, per smite in a 16x16 square, 1 second per spell out of combat, ACWs have 300 hp equals 8? dead ACWs in ~5 seconds. With summon levels required for such a massive AoE, it balances the effort required for both (To make ACWs, and to flat out destroy them in seconds) As makes summoner vs summoner battles a real possiblity. I still say that charm be used as a modifier, not many people would have 48v/i except summoners then.. Charm could be a modifier to the summons magic resistace. in so as far rationailty is needed for the mage for magic to be of any use. Any mage with 48 rationality can summon rats for a few weeks and get a decent summon level. I summon once in a while for fun, and have made 35 summon with animal nexus zero. Though a mage with full r/w will have low charm, because hey, we need some emu, and there are only so many pp to go around. But I guess the summoners will say, but if I need high level charm then I can be strong mele fighter .. Also I think falcons/hawks would be nice to have true sight, and maybe lose only 1 hp/min to make them very tatical/usefull Only only issue I have with using charm instead of the pure summon levels is, you can buy pps for vit\inst and just bypass any effort for balance. Without PP buying this would work, but instead it could just reward pp buying. You can't buy summon levels. (Granted I know it would\could take a shitload of vit\inst to possibly be effective, but its happened. Recently I saw someone (I won't name him) "Buying: 20 nexus removal stones"... So the possibility is there. And birds with true sight makes perfect sense, "flying high, with a keen eye.."

With harm, one at a time, like everyone else. Imagine if harm was an AoE (Area of Effect) Or level summon to earn the ability to splatter them all in 5 seconds. Its the fact the current smite\heal gives that ability for free without being equal in effort. (Effort in reaching the level to summon ACWs for instance) Original issue was 60 damage per summons, per smite in a 16x16 square, 1 second per spell out of combat, ACWs have 300 hp equals 8? dead ACWs in ~5 seconds. With summon levels required for such a massive AoE, it balances the effort required for both (To make ACWs, and to flat out destroy them in seconds) As makes summoner vs summoner battles a real possiblity.

yes but the mage justs tptr and his in the middle of the summons.. ofc a summoner can't move his/her summons out of the way in 2 secs. the mage will just smite away... the uninvis wards doesnt help much But isn't that just tactics and countertactics? Mages are pretty vulnerable, most of them have fairly small EMU, many of them (though not all) have low a-d that gets them in underworld in 1 hit from an ACW. Won't this just eliminate the role of the mage in PK entirely from the moment there are summons in play? And if so, how does that bring more balance? Seems to me it just flips over the balance to the other extreme. Don't get me wrong, i think it's good if there would be some changes, but it seems to be forgotten that the mages basically have just the magic as their weapon. Btw.. the ubberest mage ingame has a pretty decent summoning level too ^ ^ To address the question of balance (in my opinion): A summoner build cannot use a spell designed for his\her use, the heal summons spell (because its dependant on Magic\Rationality). Same for the smite summons spell, only a pure mage can use this summon spell with any strength. It would make summoners vital to the defense of their own summons (reasonable idea) and the destruction of the enemies summons (makes sense for roleplay). It does not 'nerf' (aka weaken) a mages power, because all it requires a mage todo, is level his summon skill. So: Places the summon spells back into the hands of summoners Give summoners the ability to defend their summons (Heal) Give summoners the ability to fight the enemies summons (Smite) Increases the amount of time required to gain the 5 seconds knock-out smite. Increases the appeal of the summon skill and removes more items from the game (due to leveling) Increases the demand for LEs, animal parts, and warm cozy seats at the gypsum. Makes sense roleplay wise (game lore) Keeps mages intact without a call to 'just Nerf-em' IMHO it doesn't damage mages (just little more time to gain) and it gives summoners (some new, due to requirement) with all the other summoner *love* (The summoner perk, Summons bypass MI based on summon lvl/4, multi strong summons) moves summoners from mixers to a vital part of el combat. (We now get hybrids, Fighter\Summoners or Mage\Summoners) Now don't get me wrong, I think mages need some design *love* too. Myself and other have epic novels dedicated to this topic, but I get the feeling most people are afraid of it. Every other post in regards to mages are "omfg i was in hulda and invis mage...lower harm nao....not fair i spent 4,000 hours" You have to admit, its way easier to get 50 magic, than 50 summons. But with a mage high rationality (but low emu) leveling summons should not be extremely difficult, just would require an attribute commitment beyond (48 will/48Reason). Now whether Teleport to Range into the middle of a summons group, and not moving, to avoid triggering the uninvizibilizer ward is an expected counter to it, only Entropy knows. But it does seem reasonable, since they are triggered by movement, and not moving would be a counter.

I made a poll Please let me know if I missed anything or totally fubar'd it. And thank you Entropy for considering our requests.

Thanks, that help clear things up, pre-poll. On the smite\heal summon level dependancy, I thought it would be part of the equation in determing strength, ie need a high summon level to get maxium power out of it. So magic+rationatlity didn't automatically create super smites or heals. Makes sense, since its really a summon spell, than a pure mage one. But I never considered "higher smite resistance based on the master's summoning level" So I think the poll system will let us do multiple questions, so a last question can be "if you voted yes on smite\heal summon dependant" Summoning level determines the power of Smite|Heal summon spells Summoning level determines a summons smite resistance based on masters summon level @Tigerclaw, the problem with implementing both is a minor over powered state, because a high summoner could have "un-smite-able summons. I don't know I could be wrong. But IMHO if you could get one, id vote for the top one, it makes those spells summoner oriented ones. I'll start the poll if no one else does in a few.

Should the poll be an OR, or a AND These are the suggestions (I think, please someone correct me if mistaken) Make all Arctic Chimeran Wolves have True Sight. Lose invisibility if attacked or New Arrow that would remove invisibilty. Hawk and Falcons have True Sight (or alternative animal?) (Remove Poisoning from Invis pots, w/ invisiblity cooldown.) I think this one was conditional with "lose invisiblity" as a balance. Make smite summoned dependant on summons levels. So just a quick question before someone makes the poll, to ensure its done right. Its it a poll for ONE suggestion to be implemented, or individual support (Yes\No) for each individual ones. (Sorry for asking this, I started to make the poll to get the ball rolling, but this struck my mind first )

At last some great suggestions in this thread! Yeah "at last", finally, not like they are the threads consolidated ideas I fully support all these changes ty Dugur

I agree with "player should lose invisibility if attacked" this would allow rangers to "pop em visible" I see trying to give summons the exact same buffs, the summoner has, for the same cost a problem. But how about True Sight and Magic Immunity can be cast on other players\summons, like remote heal? This would give the ability to buff a summons if needed, this gives mages something, while giving summoners a defense. Ill also repeat my last post: Perhaps Smite|Heal summon should take into account the caster's summon level as well. This does solve your issues with the time it takes to become strong enough to destroy your summons. It would then take many hours of stone making to be able to 5 punch knock em out.

Here is another idea to maybe help fix the 5 smites to win issue. Perhaps Smite|Heal summon should take into account the caster's summon level as well. So the only mage type that could quickly kill summons, would be a summoner also. It would also remove the problem of time required for such skill. I've sit in Arius grinding out bear stones so I know summon levels aren't easy to aquire. It wont nerf mages, or OP summoners, seems like a reasonable change.

Warning: epic reply to epic post, don't drop the baby reading it. El despite claiming to be a class free game, it does have classes, even if its the uber battlemage one. Even though you could reset and change class, it still takes alot of work to change from mixer\fighter\pure mage, etc. You even refer to yourself as a "summoner" and the crux of your anger is the 'mages'. Sounds just like classes to me. I did not say 'one skill has to beat another' I said one type of combat, should have a counter for another type of combat. There should never be a character build type that is strong against all types. We had this prior, one super class, and the days of Toomass\etc, clearing and shutting down an arena (until he got bored) was horrible. Want it back? Please read my post above on Powerblocks. I gave a suggestion to fix this, this isn't forum combat. I'm at a loss to understand this obvious statement: You cant stop them from killing them And they can't stop you from summoning them. There are only 2 dangerous summons. What are you asking for? unkillable summons ? Reread my post on Powerblocks on stopping summoners. Only thing that isn't "the sky is blue, the sun rises in the east" is the part about 'omfg mage alts'. OK: Summoners summon apparently and dont train to be pkers. Mages train magic and AD at the same time, orly. Summoners are mixing and critical fail alot. Whatever point you aimed for there, I missed it again. Kinda hard to figure out wtf you are talking about there. maybe the can sit and get exp, like a summoner? I have terrible news for you, summoners have not received enough tweaks enough to be lone pkers, you will need a team. I still think you are insisting on being a One Man Swiss Army Knife thing. My post are about group vs group and not, why can't we single handed, hold KF? If in this now midly aggressive incoherent rant you are really mad that you can't single handed Pk as a summoner? And its the mages fault, your team isn't faster using the game items available to them to stop the mage. And you aren't fast enough to heal your own summons? I do suggest rangers be able to reveal invisible people, or a special arrow\bolt that can reveal them. This will give rangers a duty in revealing stealthers. Maybe you just dont understand want I mean, you are asking for a rock to the mages scissors. I know its a complicated thing to understand (I get to use my here) Sarcasm aside, it means there is a counter<->counter system, so for every attack, there is a defense. Its up to the players to win or lose, and not lose to the system. But it seems you are still stuck on: When did summoner become a lone uber pker?, I missed that update. Up until the number of ACs etc, changes, summoners were mixers, supplying stones to pkers. The game should require a team and not a one man army, ok? Hey, I'm on your side for balance, but your post is still not about summoning but "OMFG mage alts" and the time it takes to make one great is growing smaller by the post. It was 3 months and now its down to 1 month. Well Gl.

Sorry for the double post, just going to point something out about rationality. The obvious reason harm\restore etc is dependant on rationality and not pure magic levels is: All high AD fighters also have 70+ magic, if it was purely based on magic levels, then top fighters would be top mages. The game would be right back to the start, the super battlemage, before the restore changes.

I hopes of giving a productive suggestion, besides the omfg its boRk'd, maybe an idea, to the original problem: (Disclaimer: I know the original topic is about summons, but summons are melee by proxy anyway) (Skip to the -short version-, if you feel sleepy ) Perhaps, all that is needed is a magic counter(unlike a ward), but would also work against melees, with restore as an exception** In the other, closed but outstanding pk game, they employed a tactic called a "PowerBlock". If you get the drop on a magic user,(pre-emptive strike) you can 'powerblock' them, to prevent spells for 3-5 seconds. Although, a magic user would have the ability to 'freeze\root' a melee, as the equal counter. it worked quite well. (Now with Great Heals doing 80 per now, melee have extra insurance, in cooldowns.) However, powerblocks were not spells for melee, they were 'special skills'. A player could trigger, with cooldown, to get a certain effect, and weapon dependant (Axe may have powerblocks, while a sword may possibly not). This gives other implementation options, besides more spells melees are dependant on :/ Again, with their system. A lone pkers life span was incredibly short, at the very least you required a scout, to reveal "stealthers". (aka invisible mages, and rogues) Just IMHO, but group vs group is better than, lone super character that cannot be killed, because it spent 1,000 hours\$$ to become so. I don't believe the system is at all derailed, its evolving, to a rock-paper-scissors complex system.While others still long for the simplicty of EL's early years, the 'old school' system was stagnate. You will greatly reduce anyones interest in player combat, if you give them 1 option, most people have different styles, I've played both thief\barbarians, one is sneak, the other is smashie smashie kill. SHort veRsions: New Powerblock\Stun- spell-weapons-effect-??something - to counter mages Freeze\Root spell for mages to counter melees Its reasonable to assert, if a mage was WacK'd with a Titanium Axe, he would be so stunned he cannot cast anything, except restore** and a mage could freeze a melee, instead of using, disengagement rings for the same purpose. So conclusion: Make a counter <-> counter, and you have balance, then its up to the players timing and actual human planning powers to time these counters to win, no automated win win. ** - until el has an alternative healing method equal for melees, or healers become a viable part of player combat. I'll save healers role in another epic post\thread to prevent major hijackz

The function, is_in_buddylist, in buddy.c appears to test case senstive, so that would make it fail. Perhaps a tolower or a strncasecmp, as in del_buddy function, instead of strncmp. See: if(buddy_list[i].type < 0xff && strncmp(buddy_list[i].name, name, strlen(buddy_list[i].name)) == 0) to if(buddy_list[i].type < 0xff && strncasecmp(buddy_list[i].name, name, strlen(buddy_list[i].name)) == 0) I just fast glanced.

I agree with XenaMT on magic dependance on rationality. On my tests, I harm greater with 40 magic\48 rationality, than I do with 70s magic and 24 rationality. Its hard leaning in the direction of rationality over actually magic levels. On the other poster insistance on holding me to thing I did not say, again I am for balance, and if the current mage class can out DPS any other class, then it requires alteration. I hope you read this one before I'm held to some other broken thing I never supported.

I am right. However it is not my fault the leveling times version mage and melee aren't equal. I am completely right in my assertion about pk, it worked for 6+ years shadowbane was played. Again, don't fault me for the leveling system to be wrong, the concept is about rock-paper-scissors pk is correct.

And thats how a balanced PK game does and should work. One type of pker will destroy one type,easily, but another type has an advantage. It does create planning, and I am glad EL is moving in this direction. If you created a pk environment, that if you reached the top in your pk skill (summon,ad,range), you were essentially invulnerable, pk tactics come to a halt. So my opinion is, have a team member hunting stealth mages, this was the defacto grp vs grp in shadowbane (scouts, thieves and other rogues) and made it a outstanding pk environment. So in conclusion, IMHO, You are suggesting your summons be both made strong against melee and magic, steps to an overpowered state. (PS I've used many giants (from stones) in KF, only to see the slowly smited, but without it, I could have kept them alive and killing forever)

It WAS lowered, it originally was 40k for Book of Iron Plate Mail.

I didn't vote. I would have voted no, but there isn't such option. Since I'm aware of custom clothing, but choose not to use it. Every example ,except for the offical custom capes, were obnoxious and more like graffiti. I would never use it, but would rather it be an offical source that could be regulated. To me, it looks like a lost source of revenue for the game, if anyone can set up a server and charge for it.

We are WAY ahead of you!!! :) http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...;hl=complainers I did get that link from that particular thread, but I avoided linking a link to a thread,with a link, to a... Easier just to quote it, and reference link the original. Slimpickens idea could be implemented client side only, since there is already a "click logo" thing added to the client. Although that may not help those who wish to avoid the forum, but the alternative, is more text sent by the server. Perhaps the client could check once a day, download it to a file, and the client can display it, but then we could get a auto update encyclopedia too

I know, so many people do not or barely read the forum. I give returning players update-run-downs, all the time. Perhaps the lastest changes should Appear in the text on MOTD? "Hi, and welcome to Eternal Lands... *News: ?" Or #news ? On good and funny quote: Complainers of the World Unite "If you play an online game that you enjoy, there's one surefire way to spoil the experience: read the forums on the official site. There you will find a vast underworld of lost souls keening their misery onto your screen. A game you thought was entertaining, well-balanced and attractive will be torn apart before your very eyes and pronounced lacking in every conceivable way."

Only if we can eat em It would be nice to see an animal with stats greater than a bear, that places it in the 100ad range. If not a Bison, perhaps Rhinos? But I'd omit rhino horn trading ingame :X

I disagree. Gimme a club and I'm certain I can get you to pray While not entirely true, there are Imagine a viking, asking for Odins help in the middle of a bloody battle? We already can change full armors sets in combat? If you cannot mumble a request for divine intervention, whilst someone tries to kill you, then how can we completely swap out Plate armor, while swining a sword and casting magic?

Compelled to point something out. He stated the "chance' of making an EFE, through *luck*, is nearly or at zero. I assume you missed typed "price" and meant "chance'. Entropy did stat he made EFE chance to zero for 2? weeks once, so I doubt its reasonable to speculate on their actual chance. He asked us in a poll, many moons ago, if he should publicly announce rate changes, and iirc it was overwhelming toward silence. It caused items price to inflate, and mass hording. @topic Perhaps something that requires both capes and a quest requiring certain skills levels to complete. Kill a dragon, have 80 alch, make a CoL, and so on, at least it would stop purely buying it, and requiring a player to actually earn it ingame.

For the person posting, I never said it did, ...try reading. I mentioned there are 6 objects in that link, that have other affliations, piracy for one. Again, how hard is a concept to keep El loreplay, within its designs of fantasy roleplay and keep RL associated symbols out of it. I'm for you idea, and I am voicing concerns that would shitcan it, try appealing to the general audience. Its not the same thing, because it would require a change to all the maps in the game. While a new item creation is much simplier to implement, ask for things that could be added, and not overkill that will be rejected due to time. Well a mortos blessing takes 15 mins to 'wear' off so its reasonable that its already time based. I do see the possiblity of say a negative reaction from a chaos creature like Mortos, but not Aluwen for instance. It can't be so negative no one will risk it. Magical stones are part of EL, the are part of the role\lore play of the game, Its not a terrible request for a new magical item to remain under the loreplay of the game. Why ffs are you adding nonsense straw mans in your own suggetion?