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Everything posted by ttlanhil

  1. Timer timestamp for chat

    7? Hmm, yeah, I don't think that's a common occurance, but I can see the issue. Well, apart from exploration data (which in the old system is stuck in data_dir/maps IIRC, and with NEW_FILE_IO is moved with mapmarks into config_dir/maps) the number is limited... However, if there are many characters played on the one computer then it may be quite handy.I think the big problem you'll face is how much to split out. Exploration data? Probably (with newer options, it's stuck in a directory only with mapmarks, and I think it'd be somewhat rare for users to have any reason to mess with any of those files, apart from maybe looking up coords in a mapmarks file, so a clump there isn't as bad (the number of mapmark files is already a large clump)). Data already split is easy enough. Logs? If so, which ones (chat_log, but not srv_log, connection_log or error_log? Is there a reason to split those as well?)? Notes? (of course, you could have it made so the notepad has both all-users and this-user notes, if you want the added complexity). Ignores and filters? I'd be inclined to leave them global. el.ini and el.cfg? Probably global (although it could also check a player-dir to see if one exists there first, so a user can manually create a new location for their config; when saving it checks if the file exists before saving to ~/.elc) I don't think thered be, as long as we only use config_dir and not data_dir (which we should be doing anyway).We won't be able to run on system without directories (some old filesystems...) anyway, I can't think why we would be able to create normal files but not directories (although having code in place for a can't-happen isn't that bad either), and apart from non-NEW_FILE_IO on windows, we already created data_dir/.elc, and change the files there or even add new ones regularly, so it'd be suprising if we couldn't make a new dir.
  2. Draia's timezones

    Why should the time have to change (Whitestone standard time is used by all people across the known world, or some such)? Just have it so sunrise/sunset/etc is offset by a half hour or whatever when you change continents (for bonus points, the new sky can be adjusted, not just for where it's up to in rotation, but also offset north/south). I had a patch to do the first part years ago (it's really quite a simple change, just messing with the sun position table), the main thing would be deciding where the continents are, globally.
  3. Timer timestamp for chat

    Data like what? If you split logs on date or channel then there's enough for a logs dir, otherwise just sticking it all in $HOMR/.elc/ is generally enough. I doubt there's enough per-player files that splitting that out will make much of a difference (those who can find the files can handle sorting those few, I would at least hope). If NEW_FILE_IO is enabled, then even windows users have a home dir used as well (and a subdir of that for map marks and minimap data).
  4. Timer timestamp for chat

    There are patches on berlios for adding the name (when set in ctrl+o) and/or the date (as above) and/or the channel number (ditto). It's handy stuff in some cases, but some people would have trouble searching through the files to find something someone said between 2 and 3 weeks ago
  5. ttlanhil's opinion

    You don't really have to bid, it's non-exclusive, anyone can rent my opinion
  6. spell quickbar causing EL crash

    What is the exact error? Do you have disk space spare (you can check with the terminal command 'df')? Is there anything interesting at the end of ~/.elc/error_log.txt?
  7. Active Hyperbag "Treasure Hunts"

    I've grown tired of you trying to create more and more 'community rules' to justify your claming that this or that is against it.But he's right, though, anyone talking about game rules in the outlaws forum doesn't get it (unless it's something like "That's actually against the rules, you should post in abuse"). And anyone who has to resort to irrelevancies to try to win the argument has lost, because they don't have a valid point. First off, for raw numbers, you should certainly know by now that you won't get a huge number of votes in forum polls (unless, perhaps, it's posted ingame a few times on #Message). The opinions on the forums are probably slanted more towards the longer term or social players, but not that much that it's not representational.As for the ratio? Well, it has been made clear a lot of people think that it's not the same because the bags should be taken for the same reasons as normal bags. Given the ratio of comments using this argument vs real arguments, you can move more than half of the no votes to yes (because they're saying that bags should be taken, the same way people say death bags should be taken, which implies that the different types of bags are treated the same, which is actually a yes vote). Even allowing for the people posting opinions to not be overly representational, and allowing that forum postings/votes have a tendency to be skewed to the more community minded players, you still end up with a clear majority to the point that "A bag is a bag" (whether you think bags are free to take or not). An option like that is important when you have multiple polls at once, so people can vote for only some. When there's only one choice, what do you miss out on by not counting the abstains? Less idea of how many people have read here, perhaps, but it's active enough (and in an active forum) that people who read the forums should have seen it. Force? Hmm, who's forcing you to follow community rules? That's right, no-one.And politics? Well, of course. Pretty much any social interaction will have some level of politics. When we're talking about what's expected/accepted social behaviour, how can you expect to not have politics come into play?
  8. Active Hyperbag "Treasure Hunts"

    And completely irrelevant, since the thread is if hyper bags are treated the same as deathbags or working bags or whatever other sort of bags by the community standards. Not if bagjumping is legal or moral, a topic which has been done to death.
  9. Active Hyperbag "Treasure Hunts"

    Yay for people missing the point... That doesn't come into play at all. That's the same argument used when people post about bag jumpers, or people PKing trainers, whatever. It's legal by game rules, we know. Anyone is allowed to do it, we know. It's against community standards, and you may suffer for it, that's clear. People are welcome to play the baddie (as long as they accept the consequences and do it within limits, swearing and insults and spamming and all are out, of course). That has nothing to do with the difference between a (usually) accidental bag from death or tp nexus and a hyperbag. Yes, some of the rest of your post did deal with that, but most of it was just the same old stuff about any bags or other antisocial behaviour. Anyone who doesn't know that shouldn't be commenting. For that matter, anyone who thinks that there's any point in stating stuff like this, yet again, probably shouldn't be commenting. How many times has that been said? It has no relevance here.ed: To clarify: We're not talking about the legality of bag jumping, in any form, whether HBags are counted or not. Please don't talk about bag jumping itself. The thread is if taking HBags is the same as (other) forms of bag jumping. That's all. Anything not about that is off topic. Well, not really the same. "Okay, I gotta run, I'll leave this stuff laying here... If it doesn't poof and no-one else picks it up, I'll grab half a load of ingreds from it when I get back" vs "Okay, enough for now, I'll hide this where people can't accidentally get it and when I come back I'll pick up (possibly) many loads of ingredients". The point has some validity, sure, but I don't see how you can say it's the same thing.
  10. Active Hyperbag "Treasure Hunts"

    So far it seem like there are 2 main groups. Those that think that grabbing a HBag is pretty much the same as grabbing some other bag, and those that don't and give the same reasons people give when someone posts about a 'normal' bagjumper in outlaws. So really, unless they want to attack the normal bagjumping standards, which this isn't the thread for, I don't see how their opinions are relevant here (they start from a basis that is contrary to community standards, so how can a position developed from there be taken into account on a related matter of community standards?). Maybe it's stupid and risky to store a lot of stuff in a HBag. Maybe the same applies for dying and dropping a DB. Oh wait, the alternative is to not play, since you then won't lose stuff. Hmm. So nevermind, that doesn't come into it. There are 3 cases with HBags. Those that you stumble upon, which aren't much different from DBs; those that you expect to find because you saw someone working there, which is worse; and those that you're looking for in a contest or whatever, which are generally up for grabs and okay to take ed: To try to make it clearer: People saying it's different seem to be saying that bagjumping should be allowed. They are not addressing if taking HBags is the same as bagjumping. They are not adding relevant opinions to the thread. ed2: Actually... Everyone who says that taking HBags is okay for the reasons given why taking DBs is okay is really saying that, yes, it's the same thing. So all votes by people who use the same reason to say no can be counted as yes. That changes the counts a bit
  11. LoGG and your hyperbags

    Normally I avoid issues like this, but I think it's about time I said something again... First, as we all should know, bans is for game rules, and outlaws is for community rules. Now that's out of the way...You wish to censor the playerbase to prevent them from having rules and standards of behaviour they expect people to follow? You want to be able to play the game however you like, but other players aren't allowed to have a community and community standards? I hope the problem here is self-evident now. To you: what's next, abolishing the police and laws IRL since they stop you doing whatever you feel like? (community rules are closer to RL laws than game rules, really). You can agree with the community rules or not. You can follow them; or not. If you don't want to follow them, then what are you doing even reading this forum? Outlaws is here solely for people who break community rules. If you don't want to follow them, then you accept the consequences. Like it or not, that's how it works, and you cannot change it (no matter what; at the basic level, you can either help/sell/buy/whatever with a person or not depending on if you like them. If there's a person on either end, which there is, then there's a social aspect. If you don't like that, then single-player games are for you).
  12. Update in November

    Now in CVS, thanks
  13. Chat emoticons

    It's really the same as coloured text in-game... It'd be fine if players were responsible. Which we know they, generally, aren't. So those of us who are sensible have to miss out. As for exploits? No, that isn't an issue, it's not like you'd let the players choose their own icons, they'd have a set provided by EL if this were to happen.
  14. Using mines in a fun way

    What the hell r u talking about?Is it just me that canĀ“t understand this last post? Probably not only you, a lot of people aren't that familiar with the topic, but maybe you shouldn't make further suggestions on the topic until you understand some of the history I'll elaborate. Back when firearms for personal use (the matchlocks, a type of rifle, as opposed to naval or artillery cannon, although the larger cannon also had the same issues) were new, they were loaded differently than today. You may have seen them used in old movies and the like. You inserted blackpowder, wadding, a shot, and guncotton using a rod, from the firing end (hence being called muzzle-loaders, as you loaded into the muzzle of the firearm). You then took aim, cocked the rifle, and fired, which caused the hammer to spark and ignite the powder. As you can imagine, that's not highly time efficient. They were also more dangerous to their users and highly inaccurate. But you could, with a small amount of training, produce a reasonably large army (and with an army of rifles, you have the same as with an army of archers... Neither was accurate at range, but with mass-fire against another army... It doesn't need to be accurate). Training an archer took many years, skill on a horse (for calvary) was rare, using a pike took strength and formation... People using firearms could be trained in weeks, and didn't need to be as strong or disciplined. The rifle shots, after some development (going from early matchlocks to muskets) had more force behind them (chemical propulsion as opposed to physical strength from an archer, who can also get tired), giving them greater penetration (contrary to some belief, arrows had no ability to penetrate plate armour; the arrowheads would crumple on impact... Some designs were able to penetrate chain armour when close; but by the time plate became popular, chain was generally only used for part of the armour. Consider the time and cost to make every individual ring in chain vs the time to hammer a sheet of metal into a curve, as well as the difference in protection, weight (plate is attached all over the body, chain rests all the weight on the shoulders; maybe some on a belt) and you can see why). Over time, firearms have become a lot faster to fire, and a lot more accurate. As for the bayonet, that's a dagger mounted below the barrel of a rifle, which allowed you to use your rifle somewhat like a spear... Very useful when the armies were close, and you didn't have time or room for reloading (even a bolt-action breach loading rifle, which you can see today, isn't really that fast. You may get off a shot every 5sec or so... A bit faster if you have a magazine, although then you also need to replace the magazine regularly. Machine guns are a lot faster to fire, as well as to expend their ammo, and also often larger). When in doubt, google or ask wikipedia, and they can give you a decent understanding (or watch the history channel every now and then... Although they devote a lot of time to WW2, they also look at older times, especially the more exciting things like wars).
  15. The Mechanics of Life

    I have a theory where that statement came from... A misunderstanding. There is no new energy in the universe. There hasn't been since the Big Bang, or whatever other theory of creation you subscribe to. Energy and matter are interchangeable, you can transform one to the other (Nearly everyone has heard of "E = Mc2", although most have no idea what it means... It's how much energy (E) you get per unit mass (M) (as a sidenote, weight is measured in Newtons, mass in kilograms, yet people give weight in kilograms ). c being the speed of light, 300,000,000 meters per second (so as you can tell here as well as from what you've heard about nuclear fusion and fission... A little mass can be turned into a lot of energy). Of course, once you get to areas that aren't purely for people interested in physics, light and matter generally aren't seen as interchangeable, so the use of electron flow (electrical current) to cause the emission of radiation (light) through the heating of a tungsten (AKA wolfram) element (in a light bulb, otherwise empty, with air removed or replaced by an inert gas to increase the lifespan of the bulb) is the conversion of electricity to light. Going back, that electricity would have been converted from stored chemical (gas, coal), radiation (solar, nuclear), gravatic/currents (hydro, wind) So the core of the statement, that there is no new light, is basically true; it's just the details were mixed up somewhere.
  16. Update in November

    I said it was pretty much done, not completely finished... That one is a bug that I just fixed (along with lowering the fog levels, which was another thing you mentioned), but the numbers can probably be adjusted to make the various weathers look better.Those numbers are from around lines 87 through 132 in weather.c There's the colours (in RGBA) per precipitation type (which are used to make a colour when there's more than one type of weather active, eg rain and snow (for sleet)). Minimum fog level (one number) and maximum fog level per precipitation type. How fast the types fall (hail falls fast at 0.75, snow and dust are really slow at 0.005). How much the wind will affect them (hail is heavy and won't be affected much, at 0.05, rain is affected a lot at 2.5; however this is after the fall speed is taken into account, so snow (with 0.1) is lower than rain (because per scene it moves down a lot less, so it shouldn't be moving side-to-side a great deal)). And then the relative amount of particles when it's precipitating (which should never be over 1.0). Stuff like dust needs to be thick, at 1.0, stuff like lavamaps shouldn't be thick at all (since it's mostly a big of a red fog with the occasional falling ember, which is the precipitation). Anyone who wants to play with the numbers for a better look should check about line 430: set_weather_ratio(1, 100); This is when the old/current weather protocol is used, and defaults to 100% rain (precipitation type 1). Adjust the 1 to whatever else from the list for testing the different types (or add some code so ctrl+shift+home in DEBUG will cycle weather types when already started instead of restarting, whatever).
  17. The Minimap

    Okay, nasty thought, maybe it's the off-by-one-pixel that has been a problem with OpenGL before (on some systems), such as drawing GL_LINES over textures, eg the inventory window, or when drawing progress bars. Since there is a clipping used when near the edge of the map (otherwise the texture repeats itself, which isn't a good thing in this case). On the other hand, maybe there's just some white on the texture (I can hope). Maybe. I might have fixed that intentionally and forgotten, or accidentally while fixing other things. You can grab the circle I made from http://users.on.net/~gingerman/circle.bmp (it can be any size, really, but if it's too small then you get jaggies) Here's the problem: try playing without zooming in. Go from a map like IP to WS, and what used to be the entire map no longer is. That's why I had the "magnification factor" idea, which I think would be the most intuitive (alternatively, the minimap could be used to only show the surrounding area, and do away with full-map size displays, relying on the tabmap for that, but I don't think that'd be as useful) The numbers there are from Frak's original work... The numbers seemed correct (I would see dots show up or disappear at roughly the range of the circle), so I kept them... But then perspective came in to use, and the circle then became the normal for day and max for night (if it's changed to a variable that's updated from the server, you can then shrink it during dusk to the 'average' the player will see... However, camo cape wearers will show up well inside, and people lit up like a festival will be seen outside the ring)
  18. Update in November

    Zoom issues: Sometimes when zoomed in, it will mis-apply the clipping (which is for the edges of the map). I've seen this when going from IP to WS. Sometimes it also applies the fog-of-war incorrectly (perhaps just rotated 90 degrees, not sure exactly what it is), also only when zoomed in.It also does not translate properly when changing maps (eg when you go from one size map to a larger map, what was max zoom is no longer max, which will get annoying). My plan on that was to change it from a simple zoom factor to different increments based on the size of the map: 1 = far out, 5 = right in (tiny maps) 1 = far out, 3 = half, 5 = right in (small maps) 1 = far out, 3 = half, 4 = quarter, 5 = right in (med maps) 1 = far out, 2 = half, 3 = quarter, 4 = eighth, 5 = right in (large maps) So if you're in a tiny map, zoomed out, and you zoom in, you go to far-in. If you then go to a large map, you're still at 5, max zoom-in, but zooming out will only take you one step back out. It needs to be checked when the map size changes and the increment on a zoom-click adjusted, but it should be more logical. Minimise-to-HUD was supposed to draw a smaller 'radar' version of the minimap above the quickbar, below the EL icon (perhaps replacing the EL icon would be simpler, since a decent part of what I did change was making it adjust to move the quickbars). It wouldn't draw any map, only have a ring overlaid on the HUD bar (the same ring as used for fog-of-war) and people/critter dots (due to the smaller size). You then still have a look-around, without it taking up screen space. The minimise flagging and checking for available space (resolution, etc) works, the minimising action works mostly (except that when you first log on, it might be confused, until the minimap is opened); the minimised minimap does not work at all, although this is probably just a matter of drawing part of what the normal minimap does at a decreased size and fixed zoom. What work I did get done is not drawing it in the right place or size. The patch I have is here: http://users.on.net/~gingerman/minimap.patch A fair bit of that patch is cosmetic; when Xaphier added framebuffer support he changed the bracing style in CVS in many places, and I didn't bother adjusting all of my tree to match (ref. wikipedia, I prefer K&R, Allman makes it so you can see less code per vertical screenspace, GNU style makes it so you can see less per horizontal). The moving of the quickbars generally works except on startup, but does seem somewhat a hack (hence the TODO). And to explain the last TODO, the plan was (in later versions of the client) to draw the minimap from the map itself, which allows the minimap to change automatically when the map is changed, eg by Grum's Pawn code. Since the server would only send updates to part of the map at a time, I was going to just update each 'pixel' (at minimap size resolution) as a top-down snapshot of the ground; and save the colour data to where exploration data is saved in the current version. One other thing I thought of recently was that it might be a good idea to move out the range figures (used to size the fog-of-war ring) to a define or variable, since the visible range may change (especially if FPV gets working). If there's anything I forgot, could explain better, or you just want to discuss ideas with me; you should have me on ICQ, you can forum PM, post in Minimap, whatever
  19. Update in November

    No, it's not. It still has a number of bugs that I know of (and probably some I don't). My list is below. Some of the remaining bugs/todos are easy, some would require a reasonable amount of work and/or experience with OpenGL. IMO, a push to fix the beauty issues when there are real bugs still remaining isn't a good plan. I haven't played with either for a while, although I'm pretty sure I've used NEW_WEATHER with the skybox... If I go back to it some time, then I'll see if I can find the problems. Theoretically the client has support for a new weather protocol (which works with both old and new weather; the current weather protocols also work in bold old and new weather, but can only start one type of precipitation, normally rain. It takes changing one number in the code to make it default to a different type, however), the server just doesn't have the code in place to test it all out.If you can either have the new weather or the skybox, then go with weather. It works. My current bug/togo list for the skybox: - ctrl+o descriptions need adjusting, and several config options need to be rolled together - match the camera range in FPV and ext-cam - the lightning is seen on clouds (at least in -DNEW_WEATHER, where the flash is more noticeable), which isn't really going to be correct. - fix follow cam in FPV - the shadow system in EL only works for a certain distance; after that the shadows look funky. The new view here will make players more likely to be looking long distances, so it is becoming more of a problem. - with being able to see further, you can see when actors disappear. It might work okay if we alpha blend people in/out at a certain distance, because currently they just pop in/out on actor add/remove from the server. - damage to shaders? - low (bottom of screen) clipping on reflections too high - middle-drag allows more freedom than keys some shadows on water are full black, even through fog remove cloud texture from water (completely. If you want a sky, enable it, otherwise don't draw anything on the water) - clouds, stars & sun go from north to south when looking north or south; west to east when looking west or east. funky. - the sky is drawn underneath the world, instead of reflecting the sky above - shadows move with camera, not locked to player This is only code issues. The actor animations looking robotic in low angle, increased visibility of mapbugs, missing parts of 3d objects if you can see from underneath (eg looking up through the eaves of a house), and probably some other problems are also there, but there's not much I or other coders can do about them. Someone versed in 3D coding and familiar with EL's code could probably get most of that done in a few days to a weeks work, maybe longer, with only part of the day available and less experience it grows. It could certainly be fixed before the update if the right person/people tackle it, but I doubt it'll happen.
  20. Update in November

    I guess I should post progress on my projects, in comparison to New client roadmap (1.5.0) NEW_WEATHER has been pretty much done since a few months before 1.4, but without server support it's not as well tested as it should be. the MINIMAP works as long as you don't use zoom. IIRC the current version in CVS has an above-others button, which I replaced in my local tree with minimise-to-hud, which I didn't get working properly at all. Removing the zoom and minimise buttons may make it ready for the update, allowing those to be finished at some other time. The skybox/etc from Emajekral is reasonably cleaned up, but still unfinished. So not ready (despite all the people who have said how cool it would be, first person view is not, IMO, very useful... You can look up at the sky and all, so it's nice for looking around, but not for actually playing. It also accentuates the graphical issues that are, to a lesser degree, present with 3rd person view). Centralised file handling and use of ~ on windows works, although I did talk with Xaphier a while ago about some changes to how it looks for files (those changes have not been made by either of us) Nothing happened with the recolouring. time warnings have been working well for a while. Servers.lst was not done. #url list and a window of links works, although I think it'd be good for it to have a HUD button as well. #bug did not happen. If anyone wants to pick up on the unfinished stuff I'll help them out, but I haven't even been playing EL for a while, let alone doing any dev work. I don't see that changing much soon. Minor bugs and adjustments to stuff like weather protocol handlers/constants (like fog level) I'll do, but not large feature work.
  21. The wolfram and great swords

    Except that since you can sell harvestables at the same time, you can trade for them for free. Eh, if you spend enough time on it, you'll get them. It's just a matter of investing the time. Same as harvesting those (free) resources) As above, although you also have the cost of healing/repairs, in most cases... But then, that's free too, right? From the cost of the ore, the demand for bars based on the higher use of bars to make swords, and all of the more mundane item costs.Time and effort have a value. Both in-game and IRL. And harvesting takes time. Ergo the items are not free.
  22. The wolfram and great swords

    And hey, lets not forget people who get them from DBs, either from bagjumping or PKing... What does it cost them to sell below cost price? They make a bit less of a profit on it, but they sell faster.
  23. Infinate Slots in Storage?

    Well, gee, it's almost as if you didn't read my post properly... When did I ever say I haven't been working on Engineering? Sure, I said I haven't played EL recently, so I haven't made the latest items, but look at my stats; like I said, I have levelled engineering a fair bit. And how many of the ingreds for the new items do you suppose I have in storage? And while I don't level summoning, I still have most of the ingreds (animal parts, bones, meat, LEs, enriched essies, SRs, conj cape, gypsum, various (though not all) swords... That's probably about all the summoning stuff). I could pick up where I left off if I had the nexii. It's not like being able to summon requires you to summon any named critter at a moment's notice; likewise with stones. And buying to be at a loss? Pfft, no. I buy some of the lower levelled items to be at an advantage... Vials? look at the cost of the (breakable) molds, as well as ingreds. FEs? In the time to collect the ingredients and cart to storage, I can make more money to buy the FEs. Even more so with WEs, although I do make those as well. You seem to have a problem seeing the difference between having a high level in all skills and being able to make pretty much whatever you want; and having the ingredients at hand, already made (as opposed to mixing the intermediate items when you need them, which is quite practical for any lower use items... Not for things like FE, in most cases, of course), at any given moment. In the first, you don't need a full storage. I'm currently at 167; and like I said, I can make almost anything, only lacking PPs for a limited selection (I don't have the levels for reliably making bronze or dragon stuff, but I do have nearly all of the ingreds, I have some red scales, although no black ones. So this certainly isn't a failing of available storage slots). In the second, you need one slot per item in EL, since you need to have every single item in case one day it might be useful. That includes 14 slots for great swords (normal & special), 36 slots for the lower-level swords (7 normal versions, 7 modables, 22 enchanted), etc. Clearly this is ridiculous, taken to this extreme, yet you suggest that you have to have every possibly used item ready at a moment's notice to be an all-rounder.
  24. as above, I'm thinking of adding a 'bots' command to vakana. that'd list the bots of a certain type (more below) online who have been enrolled (that's here) and if you have a private bot, this could still be of interest to you (so read on ) there's a list of all bots online... but many players don't even know the list exists. so having one in-game would be handy at times (especially if you can limit it to only the trade bots, or only game bots, etc) the info I'm looking to have listed: bot name (well, duh ) bot owner (required to be listed) any other contacts (alts, guildies if appropriate, coder if that's someone else, etc... basically people to talk to if the owner isn't about) purpose of bot. this could be trade, or game, or utility, or private... could be several of the above. there may also be other categories that I didn't think of, though the less categories the better (if there are, please suggest them to me) there may also be other information entries that are important, though I think what's above is what'll be relevant ingame (ie: the sourcecode used isn't important here, though it may be in the forums. again, if there's something you think does belong here, suggest it to me) ed: stuff like how to use the bot, getting help, etc, won't be listed... that sort of thing they can figure out once they know your bot's name (though it is easier for them if you use the common command names like loc and help ) now, if it's trade, all that I'll be listing is that it's a trade bot (and contact, etc, of course). not what's on offer, not even the type of items. same goes for game or utility... if people are interested, they now have the bot name to be able to see what the bot offers (games, items, whatever) and as for the private type above, yes, that's an option. that's mainly so people will be able to find out the contact details for your bot if it's only meant to be for your gulid/etc I don't think this is a substitute for people adding an 'admin' command to their bots, but it will help a bit there (since people would be able to ask about the bot by name to get the details even if it's offline)... it's mostly so that there's a list of the bots together questions, comments, sign-ups? ed: oh, and to make it clear, this is opt-in, so I'll only be listing the bots people want listed