Kami

My First Vote would be Crystl Caverns but I know you won't do that. WSC is the next best place. Tarsengard would be good, if I knew anything about the map that's going there, otherwise I Couldn't actually vote on that without knowing if it'll even be useful. Also, It's a Step away from VotD so it's not nessasary.

Gamer's Math isn't the same thing as "Real Math"! When a Gamer says "60/40", he Litterally means a 60% success/40% Fail. He doesn't mean it to be read as a Fraction, which would be read as 60/100. The "/" in a Gamer's Math is the same as a Ratio ( or a : ), even though they really should know better.....

What!!! Level 100 Already? Well, Looks like it's time for another Restart! And this time, got to reduce the amount of Exp player's earn. The Game's getting too easy.

How about: Magicly Inept! Cost: -7 points You don't gain any Exp in Magic and Summoning. (Or you can't Cast Spells or Summon) Great for those who don't have any interest in the Magic Arts but locks them out from branching out latter in the game.

True. But then again, I'd prefer if Perks were kept seperate from the PP anyway. I don't think it's right to have to waste your PP on Perks when only two or three of them are ever used.

I tried once. Failed of course.And why on earth does he still charge you 700 gc, whether he fails or not! At the very least, I think he should refund your money! After all, HE BROKE IT! I think this is a completely unfair Monopoly he has in armor repair! He's a complete Nin-Com-Poop and clutz but he's also the only market in town to get your goods repaired so he knows he can charge you anything he pleases and you have to suck it up! If this game had any reasonable facsimily of a economy, I'll say we should Boycott the Cretin But since we don't, I say "somebody" (Hint, hint) needs to adjust this dude's Business Ethics and Teach this lamebrain how to do a decent repair job while they're at it!

Very true. Just off the top of my head, I can think of twenty ways to do so, just in the time it takes me to write this.

Yes. I agree with this idea. And If I had any energy left, I'll go into a long rant as to why but If your interested, Read My thoughts in the Economy Thread.

Well, I'll admit it's not perfect and there will be both opposition and flaws to the system at first but I really think that this is an over all better system. After all, it works in Small Communities in real life so I don't see how it couldn't work here. My idea to help both new players as well as help the over all growing economy would be to Issue each new player a Small Sum at the beginning of his or her journey. Say, new players will be given 10 gold (the exact to be determined) so starting them on their way. This will give new players a start as well to play a small part in introducing new money into circulation to keep up with new players and the growing economy. One Flaw I see with this idea is some Jerks who'll make multiple accounts, drop their gold, then starting over add more and more gold into the game, regardless of whether or not they get back in time to pick it up. We'll just have to crack down on Multiplayer more. Another issue is to prevent Gold from "Poofing" in bags, since that might remove more gold from circulation then wanted. Also, a beginner's quest to earn money (not just buying and selling Meat/Furs) would also help new players as well as introduce the needed money to keep the Gold in Circulation. And yes, I understand your concerns about bringing down the price for items. I merely posted that as an example of a stable economy should function and under ideal circumstances (such as a Reformed Monetary Value), this game would best function like. That's why I also mentioned the idea That Shopkeepers should have a limited amount of Items as well as a limit to the number of one particular item that Shopkeeper will buy any given Hour/Day/Week/Etc instead of just buying/selling that item for More/less. In this particular system, it's highly limits what a player can buy or sell during the course of a Day. Say a player has 50 meat but the shopkeeper only wants to buy 20 of them for the time being. Sometimes, a player would need to wait an hour before he/she could sell off that load of Meat. This isn't such a bad idea to keep the influx of money into circulation down. It also means that sometimes a player is going to have to be carrying around an extra few EMU of weight for a while, unless he/she decides to store it. Which brings me to another point. Just to improve on this design, All things are going to need to be storable and all things are going to need to be Sellable. It can only work if they were. Also, on a side note, I don't much like the fact that the game measures gold in fractions. Mathematically, it's just not sound and it's bad businessmanship. This is only course, only my opinion and not part of my suggestion.

So duran, what you're saying is that It's ok for us to be punished for doing something that we can do, that is legal to do, and that, in all common sense, makes perfect sense to do all because ............. its possible to do it? This isn't a "Loophole" in the system. This is possible because it's realisitic! What is so unfair about it if you were to do this is your own home? Sitting down and working while you're working on somehthing else isn't some form of cheating! It's called Multi-Tasking! What's more, it's called Working Smart! Why do more work then is required to get the same gains? I suppose by your reckoning, you would suppose Hiring Newbies to "Mule" for you is also taking advantage of the system since it's Taking advanage of inexperienced Players who don't understand the value of the Goods they Carry. After all, you could pay some just a few coins for hauling a load of Diamons. No real loss to you but you manage to Transport massive amount of Inventory is a very short period of time. I failed to see the difference!

Nah, see ths is a great idea (I wish "I" thought of this......... .....) but you're all looking at it wrong. Everyone assumes that this is way too Advantuous to players but everybody is also assumes that every player can reach every level very quickly. I think that it someone does reach level 40 in Magic, Magic Users SHOULD earn the right to something that'll help them in late Stages. Magic users have so little in the game, a little Harvest/Travel Help would certainly help balance out the way they been screwed out of everything else.

I've been thinking about this and I've come to one inescapable conclusion. The main reason why the Economy is always teetering on collapse, especially when a Major change is implemented, is because there is no fixed Economy within the game. There is literally an Infinite amount of Money being generated at all times throughout the game. The fact that the Game can generate any amount of money when ever it needs it and thus introducing more and more money into circulation. Why do you think that it is that Governments don’t Constantly Print Money 24/7 and distribute it into circulation? To do so would devalue all Money already in Print. The problem here is Shopkeepers and Salesmen having an unlimited amount of finances as well as Players having an unlimited amount of resources. Under this way, the amount of money being introduced into the economy will “ALWAYS†be more then what can be removed. I believe the Economy needs another massive Reordering. The only way to solve the problems with the economy would be to make it as “Real†as a Virtual community can be. This means either Removing Shopkeepers and Salesmen from the game, thus making the Game Solely Player Economy, or else limiting the amount of Money being generated by those Shopkeepers and Salesmen. This means Giving these Shopkeepers and Salesmen a limited Inventory from which to sell, a limited amount of Capitol from which to use, and causing merchandise Prices to fluctuate during the course of the business day and either having those Shopkeepers and Salesmen limit the amount of Merchandise they buy or sell or start to Raise prices when there are shortages and Lower prices when there is a Surplus of Certain Goods. In other Words, Trik should actually have a limit to how much Weapons he would buy from a player. An Example: A player sells a load of 100 Vegetables to a Tavern. This will earn that player 50 gold profit. The Tavern owner now has an extra 100 Vegetables in which that Tavern must sell. If that player comes back with yet another load of 100 Vegetables, why would that Tavern Owner want to buy those 100 Vegetables at .50 gold when it has yet to Sell the first load? Now, The Tavern Owner doesn’t want to pass up the chance to get even more merchandise but if it were to buy this load, it may not even be able to sell off the first load, thus losing profits. On the other hand, buying this load at .40 gold (a considerable Markdown), the tavern doesn’t risk losing so as much profit yet still gains 100 Vegetables that it could instead sell at twice it’s value. On the reverse view, say this same Tavern is selling a massive amount of Wine every day. So much so, that now this tavern’s supply is running short. In order to keep it’s business, it much replenish its supply, hopefully at a Low enough cost that it’ll still resell it at a high Profit yet it’s desire for wine will now cause it to offer a large sum to whom ever can sell it to them at a low enough cost. (On a Game note, now that we have a Winery, this can be implemented as a “Continuous In-Game Quest.†Whenever a Tavern runs short of Wine, It can offer a Player a Sum Of Money to make a Wine Run to the Winery.) Eitherway, this would require a Massive reworking of the Economy and of Every NPC in the game plus a whole lot of Programming work for the Programmers but It’s worth it by far. And seeing the success of “Linux†and “Banquo†in the games, this shouldn’t be too far from fantasy.

How about just changing the radon damage you take into Radiation Poisoning! The Mines can be have High levels Radiation in proxemity to the Ores and anyone who stands to close to the ores slowly takes damage. Anyone standing there for too long takes more damage then they can recover from. Only problem is that players who harvest at low Harvest Levels normally stand there mining for long periods of time. Of course, this also makes the Storyline kind of screwed up because what Dwarf in thier right mind builds a City in a radioactive Cave? This is also why I think there should be a second level down in CC; Populated places on the first Level and Mines on the second. Of course, these ideas do little to solve the immedient problem.

Teleporting to a distance away sound like the best Answer. Short, Simple and doesn't cause too much Havoc for non-Macroers. Also, having more random Monster/Animal attacks in Mnes. Or at lease something that'll keep players to reset their positions. Like, instead of letting Rocks fall on your head, make the character "Jump back" (e.g. Walk away) from the wall. To recover, legitimite Miners only need to walk back. Maybe even turning the screen 180, although that may not be needed. Another thought I had was making the "Monster Magitisim" Perk/Cape only work as long as a Player is moving. That way, It'll stop players from doing anyting AFK with hostiles around. It'll hurt Miners a bit ...... or maybe a lot, but like this doesn't now? Just a thought.

I have one word that'll fix the entire Econonmy Problem:........TAXES!!

So? What else is new? The same thing happens with EVERY major change that's made so why should this be any different? As long as it makes the game over all Better and more enjoyable, they can just deal with it. Anyway, I agree that Harvesting minor stuff like Flowers, Fruits, and Vegies shouldn't take so much effort. I also believe the Game shouldn't be so interdepentant on Harvesting as a Skill as well. It's what makes people want to Macro since Harvesting keeps getting more and more Difficult yet at the same time, the game's getting ever more depentant on it. Thus People are going to try even harder to find ways around it. These little changes and punishments aren't going to stop Macroing. The Smart Macrors are just going to find more ways around it.

What? But that just the same thing as the first idea.... It's just had a little Spin Doctoring by Republicans to make a bad idea appear to be a good idea and which causes more people to be tricked into believing it can do a Better job if you take away skills rather then giving you skills.

Possibly but in all likelyhood, that would more then likely cause you to take some serious damage in doing so. It'd be way too easy to do otherwise.

Naw..... I don't care much for the Idea of Dead Bodies, expecially since it's not how the general story-line goes. In the game, (this is not the exact storyline but merely My take on it) At the moment of your "Death", the "Grim Reaper" Snatches you (Body, Soul, Possessions, and all) and pulls it all into the Underworld. Sometimes, the Reaper loses his grip on some of your possessions, thus they are left behind. Now, if your body is left behind like that, that would mean that ALL of your possessions will also remain for the duration of your time in the Underworld. Most likely, you'll be losing everything you have on you when you die, thus no one will take the chance of fighting! Since the Reaper will take your soul Only. Even when you emerge from the underworld, you'll have nothing on you. I, on the other hand, like the idea of more detailed "Drop Bags" instead of the current Bags. Just an image of "Stuff" that doesn't necessarily shows exactly what in the bag but shows instead what the general contents of the bags are. Mostly, the Graphic for the Bags would be determined by who dropped it. Such as from an Animal Drop, the Graphic would be a collection of Bones, Meat, and fur. Now, the Bag doesn't have to contain a Bone, meat, and a fur, but that's just what the image looks like. From a Player/Monster drop, there could be several Graphics that could be displayed, depending on the General Contents, not exactly what the bags contain. Like: A player is killed in PK battle and loses a Sword, a Shield Boots, and a pile of Vials. The Graphic of the Drop Bag would be a general image to show that it's a Player Drop and not an Animal/Monster Drop, represented by something like a Shield and Sword lying on the ground. Now, in certain places, like Kilaran fields, there are also images of Items lying around the place that look exactly like what I'm referring to but obviously they can't be the same. Either they can be removed from the ground (since is logical, since in a place crawling with people and Monsters, why are they still there after all this time?) or the Images used in place of the bags could be represented by a more "Distinct†Image, such a Pile of indiscernible "Stuff" that the player can't identify from a distance but at least looks better and looks more realisitic then a Plain old vellum Bag, right?

Well, lets look at it rationally. First off, Mercury is a Liquid! Logically, How on earth do you hold Liquid? How can one Mine Liquid? Imagine holding 300 Emu of a Liquid. Second, Mercury is a very Dangerous substance! Holding it your hand is dangerous enough but then performing complex Chemesty with it makes it even more dangerous. Now, taking these two facts into mind, I think Mercury should come in Vials. It's much more logical, don't you think? Players would buy it in Vials, just like they would Potions and in doing so, they get extra vials as well. Then, once that is understood, the issue of Mining it becomes clear, as it would require a player to be carrying Vials with him/her to mine it. The amount of Mercury a Player can collect depends entirely on the amount of Vials he or she is carrying.

Aye, I read. I was more or less re-illerating and describing it from my own point of view. Their Idea is static, Mine is more Regenerative. Also, I was trying to emphasize more on Realistic In Game effects more then just solving the Harvesting Problem...... I just got carried away and diverted a little from my main point.

The Haresting Cap isn't so needed any more; It'd be quite simple to remove it without having too much trouble any more but even if you do keep it, My only concern is that it's still set a little too low. With the new system, (Along with a Limited Playing time) I barely reach a New Lvl for every day I play. I understand that the game is meant to take time to play but at this rate, I'm going to have to play at least 6 hours a days in order to make any good Progress. And then there are some things that I'll never be able to accomplish in this game, no matter how long I play. Sometimes the game feels like it just Slows down after a while, expecially because of the Harvesting Cap. I just feel that there should be a sense of Progress in the game at all times, with no Lulls or Moments of Standstill. I quit playing the game last time because the game got that way. Now it's starting to reach that same point again, And this time I've only been playing again for a week. The Cap just needs a little more thought. [Edit]: I just had an Idea. I know that too many people are going to hate this but bare with me. What if every Source Itself had a Limit. Kind of like the "Pool" idea posted above but regenerating instead of static. Think about Vegs. Currently, when you pick a Fruit/Vegetiable, another one automaticly grows in it's place. That's not very reasonable, is it? Even in a Fantasy Game, It's plain silly and it is also what causes many of the problems with the game. But what if each Basket of Fruit could only hold so much Fruit? And eventually, the basket will become empty and you'll have to wait until it refills (which shouldn't take long for the Game's sake) but long enough to slow player's harvesting. For Vegetiables, it'll be messured by how fast the Vegs Grow in the field. Actually, On a side note, I still have my questions about how can you harvest a Fruit from a Basket, when it's only in the basket cause it was already harvested by someone elsein the first place! And How hard is it really just to pick a Fruit? How much effort does it take really in order to gain Exp from it? Anyways, to continue: In a Mine, it should obviously take much longer for a Ore to regenerate but regardless, an Ore Deposit should only hold a limited amount of ore, right? Now, the most obvious problems with this idea is that Players will tend to group around Ores to be the first one to grab the ore when it regenerates. A Field of Vegetiables would grow pretty fast (For game time) in order to keep up with the high demand for food. Fruits should grow a little slower but not that much. (Another added Twist to that is the Game can suffer Periods of Drought in which Vegs fields are harder harvest so Players would have to buy Vegs more often.... just a thought) Also to solve the Food Shortages, Player's with Houses could grow their own Vegetiables. Plus, certain Large Cities should have more outlying Farms too. Portland for example should be a little bit more populated with more "Suburbs" outside of it's City Walls. I mean, It's a huge Metropolis yet it has no means to support itself ofther then Trade. But even then, it needs a base Economy. It's can't possibly survive on Trade alone. It needs more Farms and some Industry!

A high Charm could Prevent Monster Attacks, as Duran said! Higher the Charm, the less Likely a Hostile Creature will attack you. Expecially Summoned Creatures. Also, It wouldn't be a bad idea to be able to "Charm" Wild Creatures to Temporarily Fight for you. Infact, I like that idea a lot more then Summoning. Then, of course, there the NPCs Selling/Buying idea posted above. But to add on to it, I like the idea Race Specific NPCs, where certain Races sell to their own race cheaper while Charging other races More. Kind of Harsh but it's fairly accurate and makes the game more varied. And A High Charm level could then alter that.

Here's a Idea to make the Joker more fun! Let him give out Crap more of the time but every so often, make him ask the player a Riddle! If the Player Guesses it, then The Joker gives away something Truely Valuable! A player asking the Joker a Riddle would be fun too, though difficult to Program.....

I remember this discussion from back several Months before I quit playing for a while. Back then, nobody like the idea cause no one liked the idea of Battles that they can't control or the idea of being caught on the map at the time of the battle completely unprepared Anyway, Events like these shouldn't only be limited to Monsters. I like the idea of a Map being overrun with a Plague of Rats and/or Rabbits! They don't need to be Hostile. Like, 50 Rabbits just suddenly Spawn in different places in VotD. Killing them doesn't cause them to respawn, they are just erased. Ok, so 50 may cause a bit of a lag for most players.